I tend to think SC2 is in about as good a place as it's ever been -- the lack of new players on the Korean scene is about the only reason I wouldn't call this the golden era of SC2.
And while there are a lot of things I don't miss about previous eras of SC2 (the blink meta, Steppes of War, Khaydarin Amulet, Ghosts snipe-erasing Brood Lords, Brood Lord/Infestor), there are definitely some things I do miss. In no particular order:
1) Signature builds
The Parting push, the Stephano Roach max, the Byun 3-rax reaper -- I miss those brief, beautiful moments when a player had a strategy so mapped out that his opponents couldn't stop it even when they knew it was coming. They made a patch just for Byun! Twice!
2) Proleague
It's good to see team leagues coming back somewhat, but it's just not the same as Pro League. The best-of-ones, the all-kill format in the playoffs, the ace matches, the best players in the world making a lineup, the dynamics of team-kill matches in individual leagues, the opportunity for new Korean talent -- Proleague ruled.
3) Cheeses that took longer to develop
In general, I like the 12-worker start, but I miss when cheeses took long enough to develop that the "will he see it" tension lasted and lasted and lasted. Look at this game (from Proleague):
TY double-proxies against a nexus-first from Classic, Classic misses it with his later probe scout, and we wait...and we wait...and it looks like KT is about to win Proleague and his teammates are ready to celebrate, but still we wait...and then finally the rush gets there. I miss that feeling. (Btw, I still cannot figure out how to embed YouTube videos.)
4) CC/Nexus first and 3-hatch before pool builds
Back in the olden days, when you wanted to cheese, you cheesed, and when you wanted to open greedy, you didn't build any units. Full measures only.
5) IGN Fight Club
Best-of-9s between top players are fun. I've started to see them pop up again on Wardi's channel, and guess what? They're awesome. The "Champion vs. Challenger" format was great as well. Shout-out also to IGN Pro League, which was basically "Taeja attempts to carry a hilariously outmatched group of foreigners to victory against the best teams in the world and almost does it."
Well, what are some things you guys miss? (Missing something doesn't necessarily mean you want it to come back, btw.)
I miss the economy. I don't play LotV much for that reason alone. They have done so much balance tweaking due to this alone it is hard to point it all out.
The main things I miss are 1) teamleagues, I miss team identities and minor player identities and zenex so very much
2) LR threads with spoiler-free results where the outcome of each map was in a separate spoiler tag
But honestly, watching gsl now is largely the same thrill, and tastosis have only gotten better chemistry-wise over the years imo. Half the time they're just mispronouncing unit names and laughing their asses off, I love it.
this game now has BW syndrome, where nearly every game feels identical (for the first 5-8 minutes at least). the troubling part of this is that its not because players have adapted and refined their play, its because blizzard has repeatedly caved to community complaints instead of letting players adapt to the game and come up with their own solutions
in other words, i dont feel like I am constrained by the limitations of each race, i feel constrained by the limitations put on us by the community at large (in their relentless complaints) and the developer's intentions.
additionally, the dps of armies and ease of control has made engagements outside of harass almost always game ending, and the fights aren't even long enough to enjoy. SC2's best trait is the emphasis of harass, which can make the game feel like it has more depth, but these cheap, potentially game ending harassment are just another limit on the decisions you can make with units/choices in what to build.
i miss people being bad at this game, and the wild west feel of the early patches, because the variety was there regardless of these design choices and game mechanics. now its like "your strategy isnt effective because its not x, so you should do x." there are incredible, creative players who wanted to play in their own way, and this is simply not an option. I understand this is the case for BW too, and there is still plenty of retarded shit going on in BW.. why not sc2? it wasnt this way and the maturity of this game happened far too soon and feels artificial to me
remember forgg making like 20 hellions a game? or 1 base openings that would have high aggression that turned into epic macro games? everyone just gets bases for free now and there have been SO many intentional design choices that have encouraged this. sorry for the whine but it's true
i also miss team leagues a ton, the trash talk of early sc2, and the totally bizarre maps in private leagues that others hve mentioned. the kespa maps were mana from heaven, now every map is 2p map with a natural that has a ramp and a third with 2 entrances because "wahhhh"
WoL era: The BM, the BM, the BM. Naniwa thumbsing down Nestea and calling MLG a joke tournament. Parting losing a game to a guy who wrote "EZ" in Pylons at every opportunity (and some lighthearted jokes in the chat of that series). Any of a hundred things Idra did. Maybe it's the amount of money that's following SC2 and esports as a whole now but I don't see it anymore.
Brood War example but I was really disappointed how much negative feedback Larva got for disrespecting a foreigner by killing one of his starting workers G1, playing with his feet G2, and taking a nap G3. I want to see more of that. I want rivalries and personalities and conflict. It's a game about killing each other's armies, why are we so nice to one another?
Some of the early maps do bring back a lot of nostalgia. Especially some of the more obscure ones like tournament only maps. Terminus was a really nice map for its time.
HotS era: The maps were gorgeous. I didn't mind getting swarm hosted on Akilon Wastes and blink stalker all in'd on Yeonsu because both of those were beautiful maps. Also I blindly teched straight to immortals on PvP. Don't get me wrong, today's mapmakers aren't slouches, but it was a bit of an eye opener going from the 8 tilesets of BW to the diverse set in WoL, and then going from all the WoL tilesets to all the exotic ones in HotS.
I don't want it back because I like games being over in 15 minutes but I do miss the chess match that PvZ became. Taking a fourth became an interesting decision rather than "oh shit it's 5:00 and my main is already mining out".
I agree with you about missing signature builds and cheeses that took longer to develop.
In WOL there was a lot more to explore (and exploit). I miss when crazy builds and strategies surprised everyone in a major tournament that players would keep secret until then. When the game was less "figured out," there were often more exciting games.
I also miss some of the big names and personalities who made everything more interesting. Boxer, Flash, Jaedong, Idra, Huk, MarineKing, Nony, Day9, Incontrol, Apollo, DJ Wheat, White-Ra, MC, MVP, qxc, Nada, Jinro, Ret, Naniwa, Puma, Sheth, Select, Sen, etc. And it used to be huge for a foreigner to beat a Korean...any Korean.
It was weird for me being away from the scene for pretty much all of HoTS and much of LoTV and returning to a completely different game, different top pros, and casters. I do love taking trips down memory lane though so thanks for starting this thread!
hmm of course I miss Korean starcraft in all its glory (rip proleague), I miss King Sejong Station and then I know everyone hated them but I miss tankivacs. the only time I actually enjoyed TvT I also miss 4 player maps
Easily number one is Proleague and connected to it fantasy league. PL had the best games, strategies and stories and lasted long period of the year. Amount of time I spent on fantasy theory crafting... Oh boy
Other than that I miss 8 workers start making early game openers more committed and therefore interesting early game interactions.
I miss all the stuff Destiny did before he went political nut job. The days of Destiny, Kyle, debo ,deezer, CombatEX and others where amazing. Such a shame witch hunter sooks had to try and ruin him at every turn.
It was weird for me being away from the scene for pretty much all of HoTS and much of LoTV and returning to a completely different game, different top pros, and casters. I do love taking trips down memory lane though so thanks for starting this thread
Same thing for me. I stopped watching late WoL because I started to get bored with SC2 and was playing more WoW and started to watch just Brood war only. When I came back I was like "I have no idea who most of these people are". I'm glad I came back though. Still a lot of great Personalities involved in SC2.
The density of tournaments was really fun, too, but only because there were SO MANY people playing the game you kept seeing new faces pop up all the time.
EPT
