EPTWhat are your thoughts on this idea, I hope people can look at this as an serious effort to improve the game, and we can find some good ways to bring sc2 forward. This will also be a better response than to complain about the state of the game.
Balance patching with sc2 map maker as a community
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norlock
Netherlands918 Posts
What are your thoughts on this idea, I hope people can look at this as an serious effort to improve the game, and we can find some good ways to bring sc2 forward. This will also be a better response than to complain about the state of the game. | ||
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Vision_
870 Posts
Details : 1 CC = 400 M 1 Orbital (or one barrack in wall) = 150 M 4 depot = 400 M (make wall in an open space) 4 SCV working = 100 M etc... Then there s no real surprise to understand why Terrans are so late entering end game. PS : as you can approximatively have 40 vcs harvesting minerals, you can estimate the amount of mineral / minute (40*42 = 1680).. so a zerg can win about 30 seconds of free income at this moment. | ||
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norlock
Netherlands918 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
We need to deal with it for now. Bring on SC3, with different pathing and positional play :-) | ||
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Vision_
870 Posts
On April 12 2020 02:53 StarscreamG1 wrote: For god sake, SC2 problem is not a balance issue, it's a design one. We need to deal with it for now. Bring on SC3, with different pathing and positional play :-) positional play ? How can be translated as Terran (with modern engine as SC2, means not BW) Hum we already talked about it, you re human, not a machine which can watch continusly on multiples positions... | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Getting anyone (especially anyone remotely good) to actually play your mod is basically impossible. | ||
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norlock
Netherlands918 Posts
On April 12 2020 02:53 StarscreamG1 wrote: For god sake, SC2 problem is not a balance issue, it's a design one. We need to deal with it for now. Bring on SC3, with different pathing and positional play :-) But we know that they are not busy with sc3, at least no news about starcraft 3. What is the point of waiting for that and there are definitely changes we can makes to improve the game. | ||
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norlock
Netherlands918 Posts
On April 12 2020 03:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Using the starcraft editor to create a mod with balance changes is generally speaking pretty easy (for most balance tweaks that you'd be making). Getting anyone (especially anyone remotely good) to actually play your mod is basically impossible. Thanks for the reply, I also thought this would be the case. I hope we can find a way to get most people into this idea, it needs to be supported by a lot of people for it to work. | ||
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Snakestyle11
191 Posts
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Vision_
870 Posts
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Vision_
870 Posts
PS : You can also ask to blizzard to integrate a new type ladder "with fast game in default speed" (melt with the fastest) and in this mod all you have to do is increase time construction building and upgrade research time by 15%. By this way, you keep the tree and give more chance to race which requires more effective APM. It can be done in a day.. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On April 12 2020 03:09 norlock wrote: Thanks for the reply, I also thought this would be the case. I hope we can find a way to get most people into this idea, it needs to be supported by a lot of people for it to work. I'm highly skeptical it would work. Even when Blizzard put up their balance changes on that separate matchmaking queue no one was playing it. When new maps come out of the TLMC, the finalists have roughly a 50% chance of ending up on ladder eventually, and despite that good players won't play them and give feedback. And community driven balance changes are a good deal more speculative than both of these examples. So yeah you do need to gather a lot of dedicated people willing to test out these changes if you want to get anything out of it. | ||
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norlock
Netherlands918 Posts
On April 12 2020 03:16 Vision_ wrote: In fact the only problem is the ladder, who will play if you can t be ranked ? That's a good point, I just hope there is something possible. I agree that I can only see this work if we can find some cooperation with Blizzard. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On April 12 2020 03:27 norlock wrote: That's a good point, I just hope there is something possible. I agree that I can only see this work if we can find some cooperation with Blizzard. If you can't get enough people to play custom games on your balance mod, you're not going to get enough people to make automated matchmaking work and even need Blizzard involvement. | ||
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Vision_
870 Posts
Involve to a SC2 batch for community should be casual oriented, i.e everythings in SC2 can be less done for nags and less punishing. Step by step, you have to reduce the area of impact of each units, you have to decrease personality/features of these units which are clearly overlaping too far with others (little bit too much emphasis in their roles) Most of units are well designed but i m not interesting anymore to the current paths to evolve. Basically, to get closer of casual gamers, i would wish : EMP is way to punishing : there s no escape for protoss because it s an instant. Medivacs couldn t upload every marines in one shot (instant also) Terran Casual builds too many Planetary Forteress because it s so much safer and they have problem to sustain a position while their army is moving.... Banelings are too much expensive and useful for their supply cost (best cost efficient unit). Ultralisks are too strong against Casual Bio Player (If they are not scouted also) Mutalisks seems to struggle against everything (too squishy ?) Creep tumors have the same price than an injection - zerg player could be more versatile and must choose at start between a fast speed expansion or many more units - tumors spell should cost lesser than injection proportionally. (without talking about creep tumors and vision...) Not very aware of Protoss forces and weakness, Disruptors feels poorly designed Mothership core doesn t seem well designed as well. Stalker strenght doesn t seems to scale until end game. Banelings could pick the "charge ability" while zealots could have an armor to replenish their plasma shield (they would have a shorter charge effect by defaut after an hit) | ||
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
https://tl.net/forum/sc2-maps/304955-starbow The hardest part is getting the community to play it, since everyone and their dog has their own idea how to "fix" things. | ||
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Vision_
870 Posts
On April 12 2020 05:29 WaesumNinja wrote: The last big community balancing initiative I can remember was starbow, does anyone know if it's still being worked on/played? Last post in the thread was from 2017: https://tl.net/forum/sc2-maps/304955-starbow The hardest part is getting the community to play it, since everyone and their dog has their own idea how to "fix" things. SC BW remastered have attracted many players of starbow. Despite their huge work i m blaming starbow to copy perfectly / be too close from the original game. They could have mix the macro from SC BW and good idea of SC2 (medivacs, ravagers, colossus, etc..) Indeed, If starbow doesn t reach to be playable in ladder, there s no reason for community to think about SC2 anymore. | ||
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norlock
Netherlands918 Posts
On April 12 2020 05:29 WaesumNinja wrote: The last big community balancing initiative I can remember was starbow, does anyone know if it's still being worked on/played? Last post in the thread was from 2017: https://tl.net/forum/sc2-maps/304955-starbow The hardest part is getting the community to play it, since everyone and their dog has their own idea how to "fix" things. Well I think it was created at a time there was still a lot of balance patches going on, so players didn't feel the need to jump over, another problem with Starbow was that it was a complete new game, so I can also see why that wasn't really appealing. What I believe in more is making units 10 minerals + 10 guess cheaper or more expensive, reducing the range of units, slower build times or macro mechanics. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Vision_
870 Posts
On April 12 2020 12:42 Morbidius wrote: We should host a Teamliquid balance patch contest every 6 months and the best patch gets into the game. Can't be worse than Blizzard. Unless you want to change adepts with MOBA-like ability... | ||
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