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On November 23 2019 05:04 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:00 Cpt.beefy wrote:
This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
I appreciate your view but it is not correct, in fact many of the top current eSports players are foregoing other jobs and education opportunities because of their focus on this game as a source of income. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'pro gamer's but it is derived from the fact that it is a profession, or job. Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis.
I think you are not considering the desire that some hyper competitive people have to want to stand at the top of their craft and that we don't really choose our passions, we just know it when it happens so I don't buy into the idea that a person can just choose to be a pro gamer at a popular game because it's lucrative.
Also, how else could we explain the commentators, content creators, community leaders, and other people we have in Starcraft if they were putting making as much money as they can first and foremost. They want to make money, but they aren't trying to make as much money as they possibly can because it's not as important to them as doing something they love.
We get to live once, and I am yet to meet a single person who has gotten to the end of theirs and tell me that they were glad they prioritized making money over chasing a dream.
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Northern Ireland25937 Posts
On November 23 2019 21:31 Dave4 wrote:
I think it has been misinterpreted - as mentioned my main point is that few new players are likely to enter the scene because the carrot is much bigger elsewhere.
Aside from people liking different games, the carrot may be bigger elsewhere but what are the chances of feasting on any of the carrot?
I’m not sure about how distribution in other games, there is also a factor of actually being on a good team as well.
I’m sure the big bucks definitely work as dream fodder and do motivate people too, for me SC2 is pretty well placed in other ways as a game you can grind away at and make at least some cash on. Probably a good game for playing part-time while studying as well.
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On November 23 2019 21:36 Tastyyyy wrote:
There are, specially in Europe, lots of new players entering the scene and trying to extablish themselves as pro players. There are even 15 and 14 year old grand masters, 14 year old dudes that are master 1 and only started playing on f2p.
Even in korea there are two or three 15 year olds in grandmaster.
That is why I was careful to say 'few' new players and not 'zero'.
I certainly would argue it's not 'lots'. There have probably been less than a dozen new faces in the competitive arena (offline premier tournaments) in the last 3 years. By my gut estimate.
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On November 23 2019 04:47 Dave4 wrote:
SC:BW's highest earners incidentally is Flash ($648k, rank 155) and Jaedong ($645k, rank 158). It's remarkable how close those two are.
With no mama Blizzard
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Have to admit that I only read OP's post but this is so irrelevant. When a scene gets bigger of course there are more people who earn more with other things. More casual games like fortnite or moba games attract more players because they are easy to understand and not as exhausting.
The statement that no young players enter the SC scene is false. There are young players, even at the top. Even in WC3 (before Reforged) there are young players who joined the game.
For most people choosing their game they choose the game which is the most fun to them and not the game where pro players earn the most.
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I think there are some people here who have the opinion, whether they are conscious of it or not, that money is very important. There is a recurring theme with this kind of people: they have a hard time fathoming that there are people that doesn't care much for money. If you don't care much for money, then you are probably following a passion e.g. Tastosis (they have repeatedly mentioned their poor start in Korea, eating dinner on one plate and one pot lid etc.).
What is needed for new players is awareness that the game exist and then they'll need a plan as to how they can support a living. "New blood" is often said to be people in their teens. Teens can often live off of their parents without having to care about income.
Looking at South Korea, there aren't many new players. Amongst the foreigners there are a lot of teenagers that are performing well. There are also a lot in their early twenties that have finished school and are giving SC2 a genuine, full time shot
The top 100 earners is statistics that the OP used to tell a biased tale. There is more statistics that will contradict the OP.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 23 2019 05:12 vult wrote:
But Starcraft 2 is still in the top 5 overall for total money earned ~$32.1M and by far more officially noted tournaments at a whopping 5600 tournaments. Dota2 has ~$218.1M in payout over 1284 tourneys and ~$84.4M paid over 522 tournaments.
The International and CSGO has bloated numbers on esportsearnings. Valve's involvement in esports is the reason why SC2 has fallen off this leaderboard, with the big Fortnite tourneys also contributing. Notice how, even when League of Legends is the biggest esports title in the world, there are only a handful of players from LoL are in the top 100 and those are the top KR players.
Considering the prize pools SC2 has in proportion to bigger esports titles, I think it shows that the top players like Maru, Serral and Innovation are making a lot of money with minimal opportunities for large payouts.
Big prize pools also always reflect team games. The payouts for tournaments have to be worth a team sending out 6+ players, a few coaches, team reps, etc to now spread the winnings out too thin. For a 1v1 game, Starcraft is actually doing amazingly right now. No one is excited or drawn into SSB:Melee, FGC, Starcraft or other 1v1 games for the prizepools. It's for the competition.
"Money makes esport" instead of "esport makes money"...
What a pathetic esport era we live in, with speculations and micro transactions inflating everything
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This topic was not intended to antagonise and I'm sorry that it has.
I don't disagree that plenty of people play this game just for fun - as I myself do. In that sense sure there are plenty of new people who will pick up the game. But very few of those people are genuine professional gamer contenders and I would argue that those in the progamer category can't ignore money because, as someone else mentioned, they have to spend up to 12 hours a day practicing the game to compete at the top level.
I'm not saying that they can't enjoy that at the same time. But for new entrants seeking to make a career in gaming, the size of prize pools (which in part informs "expected income", along with their relative skill in a game) is certainly a consideration in my opinion.
The statistic highlighted in OP was simply a milestone however it speaks to a broader trend that Starcraft has moved from being the largest paying eSport to now no longer being that.
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I feel a lot of frustration from foreign fans of sc2 after Serral eliminated on blizzcon
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On November 24 2019 05:12 AntiHack wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 23 2019 05:12 vult wrote:
But Starcraft 2 is still in the top 5 overall for total money earned ~$32.1M and by far more officially noted tournaments at a whopping 5600 tournaments. Dota2 has ~$218.1M in payout over 1284 tourneys and ~$84.4M paid over 522 tournaments.
The International and CSGO has bloated numbers on esportsearnings. Valve's involvement in esports is the reason why SC2 has fallen off this leaderboard, with the big Fortnite tourneys also contributing. Notice how, even when League of Legends is the biggest esports title in the world, there are only a handful of players from LoL are in the top 100 and those are the top KR players.
Considering the prize pools SC2 has in proportion to bigger esports titles, I think it shows that the top players like Maru, Serral and Innovation are making a lot of money with minimal opportunities for large payouts.
Big prize pools also always reflect team games. The payouts for tournaments have to be worth a team sending out 6+ players, a few coaches, team reps, etc to now spread the winnings out too thin. For a 1v1 game, Starcraft is actually doing amazingly right now. No one is excited or drawn into SSB:Melee, FGC, Starcraft or other 1v1 games for the prizepools. It's for the competition. "Money makes esport" instead of "esport makes money"... What a pathetic esport era we live in, with speculations and micro transactions inflating everything
money is literally what makes esport. before esport we had "video games," which people played both casually and competitively for the sake of fun and bragging rights. esports is an industry. esports has teams, sponsors and branding, and is part of a capitalist machine. without money there's no such thing as "esports"
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Northern Ireland25937 Posts
On November 24 2019 06:07 Dave4 wrote:
This topic was not intended to antagonise and I'm sorry that it has.
I don't disagree that plenty of people play this game just for fun - as I myself do. In that sense sure there are plenty of new people who will pick up the game. But very few of those people are genuine professional gamer contenders and I would argue that those in the progamer category can't ignore money because, as someone else mentioned, they have to spend up to 12 hours a day practicing the game to compete at the top level.
I'm not saying that they can't enjoy that at the same time. But for new entrants seeking to make a career in gaming, the size of prize pools (which in part informs "expected income", along with their relative skill in a game) is certainly a consideration in my opinion.
The statistic highlighted in OP was simply a milestone however it speaks to a broader trend that Starcraft has moved from being the largest paying eSport to now no longer being that.
Not to worry I didn’t take it as any slight and it’s prompted a pretty interesting thread IMO
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On November 24 2019 07:11 narusensei22 wrote:
I feel a lot of frustration from foreign fans of sc2 after Serral eliminated on blizzcon
Umm... What? How do you justify this comment? Completely irrelevant to the topic...
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On November 24 2019 07:16 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2019 05:12 AntiHack wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 23 2019 05:12 vult wrote:
But Starcraft 2 is still in the top 5 overall for total money earned ~$32.1M and by far more officially noted tournaments at a whopping 5600 tournaments. Dota2 has ~$218.1M in payout over 1284 tourneys and ~$84.4M paid over 522 tournaments.
The International and CSGO has bloated numbers on esportsearnings. Valve's involvement in esports is the reason why SC2 has fallen off this leaderboard, with the big Fortnite tourneys also contributing. Notice how, even when League of Legends is the biggest esports title in the world, there are only a handful of players from LoL are in the top 100 and those are the top KR players.
Considering the prize pools SC2 has in proportion to bigger esports titles, I think it shows that the top players like Maru, Serral and Innovation are making a lot of money with minimal opportunities for large payouts.
Big prize pools also always reflect team games. The payouts for tournaments have to be worth a team sending out 6+ players, a few coaches, team reps, etc to now spread the winnings out too thin. For a 1v1 game, Starcraft is actually doing amazingly right now. No one is excited or drawn into SSB:Melee, FGC, Starcraft or other 1v1 games for the prizepools. It's for the competition. "Money makes esport" instead of "esport makes money"... What a pathetic esport era we live in, with speculations and micro transactions inflating everything money is literally what makes esport. before esport we had "video games," which people played both casually and competitively for the sake of fun and bragging rights. esports is an industry. esports has teams, sponsors and branding, and is part of a capitalist machine. without money there's no such thing as "esports"
I think you're having a hard time getting my point. Did I ever said that esport should have no money?
I'll give you a little help: Think at HoTs as an extreme example of the general trend. Esport is nothing more than marketing from the game industry point of view.
Now compare how irl sport makes money to how esport makes money.
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It is an interesting statistic, but if you move over to normal sports, the earnings of the top athletes is not quite the same as the success of the sport. Browsing the top list, it is dominated by Soccer, NFL, NBA, MLB, Boxing, Tennis and car racing with the odd MMA artist and Criket player, but are also many other sports with solid fan bases.
Some of the world's top athletes make modest amonunts of money, or are even borderline poor, like ski jumpers.
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On November 24 2019 19:20 Slydie wrote:
It is an interesting statistic, but if you move over to normal sports, the earnings of the top athletes is not quite the same as the success of the sport. Browsing the top list, it is dominated by Soccer, NFL, NBA, MLB, Boxing, Tennis and car racing with the odd MMA artist and Criket player, but are also many other sports with solid fan bases.
Some of the world's top athletes make modest amonunts of money, or are even borderline poor, like ski jumpers.
I'm not arguing of how much money ppl make out of sport but the difference between generating money out of people passion of sport in contrast to making money out of micro transactions.
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As much as I would love to see SC2 grow in popularity, I don't think it's realistic to expect too much, regardless of circumstances. Starcraft isn't a purely point-and-click game, nor is it a purely reaction-based fighting game. It requires brains, and unfortunately that doesn't have mass appeal. The vast majority of people prefer games that they can understand even when they're drunk and high. This isn't me thumbing my nose at most esport goers but...that is exactly what I'm doing. lewl
However, those who are involved in the scene seem very enthusiastic about the game and community, and that's what makes it special. Quality over quantity, fam.
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On November 24 2019 06:07 Dave4 wrote:
This topic was not intended to antagonise and I'm sorry that it has.
I don't disagree that plenty of people play this game just for fun - as I myself do. In that sense sure there are plenty of new people who will pick up the game. But very few of those people are genuine professional gamer contenders and I would argue that those in the progamer category can't ignore money because, as someone else mentioned, they have to spend up to 12 hours a day practicing the game to compete at the top level.
I'm not saying that they can't enjoy that at the same time. But for new entrants seeking to make a career in gaming, the size of prize pools (which in part informs "expected income", along with their relative skill in a game) is certainly a consideration in my opinion.
The statistic highlighted in OP was simply a milestone however it speaks to a broader trend that Starcraft has moved from being the largest paying eSport to now no longer being that.
The discussion is interesting. The OP is shaping the discussion by being partly doom saying. I think that is why you get antagonized.
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Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis.
You're clueless my dude
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On November 24 2019 23:54 Nars_ wrote:Show nested quote +
Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis.
You're clueless my dude
Maybe I am.. are you a passionate TT watcher? Is it big ?
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Someone has to go tell all the people that league of legends is dead. Only 4 people in the top 100 and that isn't enough people to field a whole team. Therefore league of legends must be dead according to the ideology behind this whole post. RIP LoL
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EPT
