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Hi guys,
I thought I would bring the sad news to your attention that Starcraft 2 has dropped off the "Top 100 eSports Earnings" list: https://www.esportsearnings.com/players
This was always an inevitability given the declining viewership and inability to keep pace with multi-million dollar tournaments like those in Dota 2.
Right now, SC2's top earners Maru ($808k) and Serral ($785k) have fallen to 106 and 116 respectively in the eSports scene, closely tailed by 2019 BlizzCon Champion Dark ($753k) who is rank 122 overall.
SC:BW's highest earners incidentally is Flash ($648k, rank 155) and Jaedong ($645k, rank 158). It's remarkable how close those two are.
Looking at yearly earnings, 2019's top earner Dark made $300k, which just scrapes him into the top 100 overall for the year at 83. In 2018 Serral and Maru, who basically split every tournament of the year, only managed rank 33 ($480k) and 45 ($370k) respectively.
We have to go all the way back to 2011 when a SC2 player figured in the top 10 - incidentally that was MVP and he was the best earner for the year in all of eSports (4 other SC2 players also made the top 10).
I remember the days when the earnings list was almost all Brood War players. It's sad that the investment in our game can't keep pace with other titles, and I think this is the fundamental reason why new blood hasn't and won't enter the scene again. For the same amount of work, the pay is a lot better over the fence.
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This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
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On November 23 2019 05:00 Cpt.beefy wrote:
This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
I appreciate your view but it is not correct, in fact many of the top current eSports players are foregoing other jobs and education opportunities because of their focus on this game as a source of income.
I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'pro gamer's but it is derived from the fact that it is a profession, or job.
Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis.
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But Starcraft 2 is still in the top 5 overall for total money earned ~$32.1M and by far more officially noted tournaments at a whopping 5600 tournaments. Dota2 has ~$218.1M in payout over 1284 tourneys and ~$84.4M paid over 522 tournaments.
The International and CSGO has bloated numbers on esportsearnings. Valve's involvement in esports is the reason why SC2 has fallen off this leaderboard, with the big Fortnite tourneys also contributing. Notice how, even when League of Legends is the biggest esports title in the world, there are only a handful of players from LoL are in the top 100 and those are the top KR players.
Considering the prize pools SC2 has in proportion to bigger esports titles, I think it shows that the top players like Maru, Serral and Innovation are making a lot of money with minimal opportunities for large payouts.
Big prize pools also always reflect team games. The payouts for tournaments have to be worth a team sending out 6+ players, a few coaches, team reps, etc to now spread the winnings out too thin. For a 1v1 game, Starcraft is actually doing amazingly right now. No one is excited or drawn into SSB:Melee, FGC, Starcraft or other 1v1 games for the prizepools. It's for the competition.
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On November 23 2019 05:04 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:00 Cpt.beefy wrote:
This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
I appreciate your view but it is not correct, in fact many of the top current eSports players are foregoing other jobs and education opportunities because of their focus on this game as a source of income. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'pro gamer's but it is derived from the fact that it is a profession, or job. Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis.
People do watch table tennis. People decide to play table tennis over tennis. In the end, we end up doing what we do because of who we are. Maybe there are people that follow the money, there is "who wants to be a millionaire" and Poker, I guess there are people that watch that, but I don't. Heck I watch Warcraft 2 over 3, for the nostalgia.
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You make it sound like sc2 pros lost money because the other games did well. There's a lot of money in SC, but the esports scene has exploded, even if we would take out the obvious outlier, Dota2, there are a lot of games that do well.
I remember the time when it was un-imaginable that (international) Starcraft tournaments would have this kind of money, that is has now
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On November 23 2019 05:18 Geo.Rion wrote:
You make it sound like sc2 pros lost money because the other games did well. There's a lot of money in SC, but the esports scene has exploded, even if we would take out the obvious outlier, Dota2, there are a lot of games that do well.
I remember the time when it was un-imaginable that (international) Starcraft tournaments would have this kind of money, that is has now
No I didn't say they're doing poorly I said that new blood won't come, which it hasnt, because they will earn much more money playing other games.
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On November 23 2019 05:04 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:00 Cpt.beefy wrote:
This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
I appreciate your view but it is not correct, in fact many of the top current eSports players are foregoing other jobs and education opportunities because of their focus on this game as a source of income. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'pro gamer's but it is derived from the fact that it is a profession, or job. Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis.
The term "Pro-gamer" was invented because of starcraft, I now think you are trolling after these comments.
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On November 23 2019 05:24 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:04 Dave4 wrote:On November 23 2019 05:00 Cpt.beefy wrote:
This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
I appreciate your view but it is not correct, in fact many of the top current eSports players are foregoing other jobs and education opportunities because of their focus on this game as a source of income. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'pro gamer's but it is derived from the fact that it is a profession, or job. Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis. The term "Pro-gamer" was invented because of starcraft, I now think you are trolling after these comments.
How is that trolling, I agree pro gamer term came with starcraft because people were making professional money from it and making livelihoods, and now they can make much more money from their livelihood of gaming in other games.
Please do not accuse me of trolling just because you disagree. There is no need to be hostile.
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On November 23 2019 05:24 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:18 Geo.Rion wrote:
You make it sound like sc2 pros lost money because the other games did well. There's a lot of money in SC, but the esports scene has exploded, even if we would take out the obvious outlier, Dota2, there are a lot of games that do well.
I remember the time when it was un-imaginable that (international) Starcraft tournaments would have this kind of money, that is has now No I didn't say they're doing poorly I said that new blood won't come, which it hasnt, because they will earn much more money playing other games.
Nobody starts playing a game because of the prospect of making money, unless they are already an established player from another game. If they do, they are in for a rude awakening, because even for the big titles, only the top 1% of "pros" even make a living off the game. The top 1% of pros, meaning the top 0.001% of the player base.
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On November 23 2019 05:28 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:24 Dave4 wrote:On November 23 2019 05:18 Geo.Rion wrote:
You make it sound like sc2 pros lost money because the other games did well. There's a lot of money in SC, but the esports scene has exploded, even if we would take out the obvious outlier, Dota2, there are a lot of games that do well.
I remember the time when it was un-imaginable that (international) Starcraft tournaments would have this kind of money, that is has now No I didn't say they're doing poorly I said that new blood won't come, which it hasnt, because they will earn much more money playing other games. Nobody starts playing a game because of the prospect of making money, unless they are already an established player from another game.
Does your argument apply to all sports?
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Meh, it's a game that requires larger than average intellect to appreciate. Of course simpler games with less accountability are more popular.
Ultimately, it's up to us in the community to create incentives.
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On November 23 2019 05:28 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:24 Dave4 wrote:On November 23 2019 05:18 Geo.Rion wrote:
You make it sound like sc2 pros lost money because the other games did well. There's a lot of money in SC, but the esports scene has exploded, even if we would take out the obvious outlier, Dota2, there are a lot of games that do well.
I remember the time when it was un-imaginable that (international) Starcraft tournaments would have this kind of money, that is has now No I didn't say they're doing poorly I said that new blood won't come, which it hasnt, because they will earn much more money playing other games. Nobody starts playing a game because of the prospect of making money, unless they are already an established player from another game. If they do, they are in for a rude awakening, because even for the big titles, only the top 1% of "pros" even make a living off the game. The top 1% of pros, meaning the top 0.001% of the player base.
I can't agree with you sorry, while I agree that very few make money from it, I think many try. Further, I think many continue to play even if the game is no longer fun to them - because it is a source of income. Which is the same for traditional sports as well.
I do believe the top players in SC will keep playing because they're making decent money, but there are very few new professional players to the scene largely because there is simply more money in other games.
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On November 23 2019 05:27 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:24 Cpt.beefy wrote:On November 23 2019 05:04 Dave4 wrote:On November 23 2019 05:00 Cpt.beefy wrote:
This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
I appreciate your view but it is not correct, in fact many of the top current eSports players are foregoing other jobs and education opportunities because of their focus on this game as a source of income. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'pro gamer's but it is derived from the fact that it is a profession, or job. Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis. The term "Pro-gamer" was invented because of starcraft, I now think you are trolling after these comments. How is that trolling, I agree pro gamer term came with starcraft because people were making professional money from it and making livelihoods, and now they can make much more money from their livelihood of gaming in other games. Please do not accuse me of trolling just because you disagree. There is no need to be hostile.
I appreciate your view but....
I'm not sure if you are familiar with...
Money makes the world go round. ( i mean what? )
people watch tennis and not table tennis.(gahh? huh?)
All trolly comments, in fact every reply to every comment on this post, is deflective and dismissive.
I'm only doing this a courtesy to other people reading this.
We can disagree I don't mind, I can even be hostile (if i want) but I'll not continue wasting time exchanging doomer insights about a game everyone on here enjoys.
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On November 23 2019 05:42 ThunderJunk wrote:
Meh, it's a game that requires larger than average intellect to appreciate. Of course simpler games with less accountability are more popular.
Ultimately, it's up to us in the community to create incentives.
Don't be dumb and elitist.
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On November 23 2019 05:46 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:27 Dave4 wrote:On November 23 2019 05:24 Cpt.beefy wrote:On November 23 2019 05:04 Dave4 wrote:On November 23 2019 05:00 Cpt.beefy wrote:
This is a totally irrelevant statistic "too the scene". Nobody watches an esport for the amount of money the players make and NOBODY plays a game for 12 hours a day because they want a big house. Starcraft is not about money for me. It's about those Best of 7's, game 7, 30 minutes in with noone in the lead!
Drama and passion.
I appreciate your view but it is not correct, in fact many of the top current eSports players are foregoing other jobs and education opportunities because of their focus on this game as a source of income. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'pro gamer's but it is derived from the fact that it is a profession, or job. Money makes the world go round. It's why people watch tennis and not table tennis. The term "Pro-gamer" was invented because of starcraft, I now think you are trolling after these comments. How is that trolling, I agree pro gamer term came with starcraft because people were making professional money from it and making livelihoods, and now they can make much more money from their livelihood of gaming in other games. Please do not accuse me of trolling just because you disagree. There is no need to be hostile. I appreciate your view but.... I'm not sure if you are familiar with... Money makes the world go round. ( i mean what? ) people watch tennis and not table tennis.(gahh? huh?) All trolly comments, in fact every reply to every comment on this post, is deflective and dismissive. I'm only doing this a courtesy to other people reading this. We can disagree I don't mind, I can even be hostile (if i want) but I'll not continue wasting time exchanging doomer insights about a game everyone on here enjoys.
I don't understand how me appreciating your view and responding politely is dismissive or deflective, I think you need to realise that people having a different opinion to you doesn't make them a 'troll'. If anything you are the one trolling by trying to force your view on people and then accusing them of being a troll if they don't say the same thing.
Stating 'we can disagree I don't mind' following a post that is basically attacking me for disagreeing with you doesn't make it okay.
And yes I do enjoy the game which is why I made the post.
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On November 23 2019 05:49 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2019 05:42 ThunderJunk wrote:
Meh, it's a game that requires larger than average intellect to appreciate. Of course simpler games with less accountability are more popular.
Ultimately, it's up to us in the community to create incentives. Don't be dumb and elitist.
I'm not. I'm being smart and elitist.
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i love table tennis.
and this statistic is absolutely irrelevant.
Dota 2 is far from the biggest esport atm - but if you look at esportearnings, it should be 3x as big as any other game.
We are well represented in the top 200.
+ we aren't in the top 100 for quite some time now - meaningless.
Our representation in the top 1000 is HUGE.
Sc2 pays out evenly.
Most esport is top heavy - sc2 isnt.
A dota2 Tier 2 team has just as much trouble making a living out of it as a B tier sc2 pro.
This thread is stupid as fuck, sorry mate.
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This stat seems highly irrelevant. I mean highest CS player on the list is 46, highest Lol player on 64. So what? That means Dota is twice as important as CS and Lol? Also there are only Dota/Lol/CS/Fortnite players in top 100. Does that mean other games are suddenly not relevant?
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Poor Maru, cheer for him please.
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WCS
