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On August 18 2019 02:52 Doink wrote:
Lol at all those who whine about zerg but don't see that korean zergs had no chance while the european zergs advanced. It's totally about the race though!
Dark lost in a ZvZ. And soO had no business playing in this tournament. He literally said a month or so ago that he doesn't know how to play with infestors.
Put Ragnarok, Rogue, or Solar in this event and you'd see a lot of Bl/infestor wins. Or even just put Dark against protoss or terran.
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On August 18 2019 02:51 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2019 02:40 Dave4 wrote:
If Zerg is so OP why did soO get rolled by Time and Reynor get rolled by Special?.. why can't people just let that shit go and admit these two have had a fantastic tournament off their own skill.
Breakout tournament for Elazer and continued dominance by Serral, don't discredit them. Korea had every opportunity to win this - the gap has closed and pretending that GSL is the only tournament that matters is no longer a reasonable way to assess skill in a post-Kespa era. Clearly not all of the best players in the world are in Korea anymore.
Congratulations and looking forward to the finals. Watching the Time vs Elazer match showed why for me. Terran up 2 bases at 8 bases, and can't close it out because BL-Infestor. I'm pretty sure no one is impressed by the state of the Z lategame. Infestors are simply too strong. That said, EU zergs played better than the KR zergs this tourney. Honestly, KR dominated BW because of the culture, the teamhouse environment, and the superior internet access. Nowadays, internet is leveled out, and team houses have been all but eliminated. So, other players mimic the pertinent cultural aspects and they can play as well as Koreans. Gratz to Elazer and Serral.
Actually TIME posted in Chinese SC2 community after he lost the game. He said though he made many mistakes, infestors just too hard to deal with in late tvz game.
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i always cheer for the underdog race, but with Zerg being so overrepresented at the top i find it very hard to cheer for zerg players and calling serral the true best player in the world. he is the best with the current balance yes.
it was much easier to cheer for maru when he was the only T in ro16 in one of the gsls he won, and the only Terran in ro8 of the WESG he won.
i think Zerg lategame need a bigger nerf then what it is currently getting. cause watching zergs lategame just destroying every other lategame comp gets really boring.
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What also pains me is how much the Korean scene has fallen. Yes the lock helped for the foreigner scene, it helped for viewership, and overall it was probably a good move but still... It feels unfair.
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Mods just gonna allow these fake 1-post account / obvious trolling then?..
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Foreigner's final in a Korea based tournament. CRAZY.
Sadly even if Elazer beat Dark, he is serral's toy so I expect a 4-0...
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So many people making accounts to whine about Zerg. Go back to r/starcraft.
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The gameplay is still good and fun to watch. The game is still very fun to play. The problem is people like to complain about protoss 24/7 and refuse to acknowledge zerg. It's getting really old and annoying. A few of the right tweaks could place the game exactly where it should be.
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People like to complain about Protoss, because... what was the PvT winrate this tournament?
How many Protosses did we have in the ro8 last 2 GSL's?
It's very very warranted.
The Zerg late game whine is also warranted, and IT is getting heavily nerfed, I agree maybe it's not enough, but I don't think Protoss changes are enough either.
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On August 18 2019 03:09 Vanadiel wrote:
What also pains me is how much the Korean scene has fallen. Yes the lock helped for the foreigner scene, it helped for viewership, and overall it was probably a good move but still... It feels unfair.
It served its purpose now it's time to get rid of it since the foreigners have closed the skill gap. Just don't leave it longer than it should be there.
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I didn't watch the games today and nobody is talking about Special against Classic and Stats against Neeb. Can someone tell me how it went ? Thank you!
Concerning Elazer and Serral finals, I believe it can be a very good one. No matter the balance discussion, gg to both of them and gg to all Circuit players for one of the best tournament against Korean players ever.
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Let's go meta, is the balance whine balanced?
Winfestor complaints : general agreement, zerg players just ask what would be their win con without those, it's a fair whine =>balanced
Terrans whining : most people are tired of this shit => imbalanced whine, grow up terrans, swallow your tears and raise your head
Protoss whining : they don't even dare, sad zealot is forgotten but deep in the heart of every SC2 player there is a crybaby waiting to be unleashed => wait&see
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On The top level ZvP seems to be pretty balanced.
Stats has became the menace to Serral. If Serral can beat other Top Korean (and foreigner) Protosses with result 3:1 or 3:2 (Bo5) like, but still lose them matches too, I can't see any critical imbalance at the Top Level.
Does casual diamond and master ladder players perform routinely those kind of Serralishque infestor endgames with over 50% win rate what The God-King himself can pull out of his sleeve?
GG for both finalists. 100% deserved for both.
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What a freaking whinefest everywhere, lol. And for what really ? Lets do some recap.
At start there was 5 zergs, 5 protoss and 6 terrans in this tournament. Then there were 4 protoss, 2 zergs and 2 terrans at top8 of this tournament. From that, 2 protoss and 2 zergs advanced. Special/Classic was close one, Serral mostly stomped Trap, Neeb won stats (wow!), and Elazer won Time (didnt see). In all but Serral/Trap, matches were decided by skill and mistakes, like it should be. Same goes with Serrals match except he was 1-2 classes better than Trap so it was kinda one-sided. No significant balance problems there. What goes on to Elazer, at least in his series against both Neeb and Dark they were kinda unorthodox games with lots of mistakes for both sides. I dont think race affected in those results at all. Better and perhaps bit luckier player won in each series. Serral then beat Classic in their match by being better. Was very entertaining match till the end.
Yes, infestors are strong atm, but they do not affect every single zerg match as people seem to whine about. And calling Serral "patchzerg" is so not funny anymore. It belongs to the 2017 so let it die already. I bet if he played any other race seriously, he would be just as dominant as he is now. Nobody seems to remember retarded proxy-rax- era or Protoss every single game all-in bs-eras ? Infestors may have to be adjusted somehow, but nobody seems to make any suggestions instead of shouting whines everywhere, even when there was 0 infestors used in the match.
On August 18 2019 01:56 Morbidius wrote:
The whole game has sucked a lot since 4.0,from Ravens, to proxies, to the return of the immortal allin, blink builds and Broodlord infestor. Its like they picked the worst metas from every matchup in the history of SC2 and decided to make them the standard. We've literally seen every cancerous strategy making a comeback in 1 year and 8 months.
Although bit exaggerated, this has a glimpse of truth in it. It would definitely be nice to see game shifting to whole another direction. But has the SC2 been played through ? And since it hasnt had anything new attached to it in such a long time, it tends to go back to its roots where every race had its peak moments. Hopefully not though.
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Serral is definitely not a patch zerg even if I dislike PvZ late game because of infestors. Overall, nice matches today.
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Welp glad I was on vacation this week and missed this whole tournament.
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Zerg is simply way too strong in every MU. But nerf Protoss, great idea...
Every tourney is won by Z, many finals are ZvZ. But Z is fine, yeah ,,l,, -.-
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> cat balance.whine > /dev/null
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The game is mostly balanced, terran is just slightly too weak in early mid game in TvP and Zerg is slightly too strong in the late game.
But I think we the coming patch with:
1. Nerfed infested terrans
2. Improved stim timing
3. Improved late game EMP
4. Slightly nerfed warp prisms.
The game will be close to balanced.
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On August 18 2019 03:57 UnLarva wrote:
On The top level ZvP seems to be pretty balanced.
Stats has became the menace to Serral. If Serral can beat other Top Korean (and foreigner) Protosses with result 3:1 or 3:2 (Bo5) like, but still lose them matches too, I can't see any critical imbalance at the Top Level.
Does casual diamond and master ladder players perform routinely those kind of Serralishque infestor endgames with over 50% win rate what The God-King himself can pull out of his sleeve?
GG for both finalists. 100% deserved for both.
it's not only serral who can play infestors, he's simply the best zerg so he gets to lategame most often and handles it the best. i think it's a bit busted in endgame for Z. on dia/master ladder it's less common and yeah it's harder to pull off, but at top levels where players are accustomed to rapid fire spellcasting and focus fire it is a very hard army to beat.
i think the upcoming nerfs are appropriate, and toss are also adapting well with stuff like disruptor play against infestors (similar to what terrans are doing with libs), so i don't think it's in a terrible spot going forward. but the balance whine comes from a place of small truth. i don't think all the toxic comments are necessary, but a lot of people agree mass brood lord infestor deathballs wiping expensive armies over and over aren't usually what we want to see
imo a minor imbalance in a specific part of the game, definitely being exaggerated by many. even lategame is still okay when you have broods fighting tempests, but when the infestor numbers are above 10 the game starts looking and feeling quite absurd. feels like mass raven
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EPT
