|
On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 01 2019 06:05 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it? Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons:
1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he  )
2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit>
Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
Just my thought :>
|
On April 01 2019 06:41 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 06:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it? Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map. Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line. Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though Just my thought :>
The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
|
On April 01 2019 05:35 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Maru was destroyed where?That's flat out wrong, Dear lost most engagements but he won because he could force maru to multitask way more by having to micro two fronts while Dear just had to micro his hts+tempests and mostly just let the zealots and dts do their thing while expanding, and despite all that Maru almost pulled it off, if anything he looked extremely good in the late game.
this is simply not true
Dear was microing the DTs
|
On April 01 2019 08:27 NinjaNight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 06:41 deacon.frost wrote:On April 01 2019 06:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it? Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map. Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line. Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though Just my thought :> The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
It's far from unbeatable, Maru tried the same mass WM strategy against Classic on Backwater in last year's semifinals. Classic defended and counterattacked, Maru had nothing but mines and lost instantly.
|
On April 01 2019 09:53 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 08:27 NinjaNight wrote:On April 01 2019 06:41 deacon.frost wrote:On April 01 2019 06:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it? Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map. Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line. Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though Just my thought :> The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player. It's far from unbeatable, Maru tried the same mass WM strategy against Classic on Backwater in last year's semifinals. Classic defended and counterattacked, Maru had nothing but mines and lost instantly.
Huh? I said nothing about it being unbeatable or too strong. It's definitely very hard to deal with though.
|
On April 01 2019 08:27 NinjaNight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 06:41 deacon.frost wrote:On April 01 2019 06:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it? Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map. Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line. Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though Just my thought :> The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
Another important reason: Maru forced a specific army comoposition out of Dear. All those phoenixes and stalkers were a good thing to deal with the drops but Maru could eventually a solid terran ground army which doesn't care about those units.
|
The mass widow mine drops creates a level of uncertainty that eats up Protoss APM and a lot of attention. It disincentives Protoss moving out due to the attention spread which might then allow the (n+1)th drop to work.
Look up Maru's infamous game against Myungsik.
It's a similar mentality to Maru's mass Banshee harass (where he trickles in one after another).
PS Hoping for a Maru vs Dark finals. That way Maru either gets his 4th title (yay!) or Dark finally gets his first.
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 01 2019 08:27 NinjaNight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 06:41 deacon.frost wrote:On April 01 2019 06:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it? Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map. Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line. Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though Just my thought :> The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
That's more or less the 3rd reason
|
Honestly, even as a Dear's fan, his moves were not so smooth and clean even in Ro16. Not the perfect micro. I even miss the perfection in Zest but that was ages ago! Still my heart is broken. I didn't like how TY played - mixed style between Inno and Maru, the terrans that I usually don't like, but I can understand how TY wanted to avoid Maru's prep with Trap. In fact, TY was the only player that could eventually stop Maru for a 4th Code S. Or may be sOs and Gumiho.
|
France12955 Posts
I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 01 2019 16:13 Veluvian wrote:
Honestly, even as a Dear's fan, his moves were not so smooth and clean even in Ro16. Not the perfect micro. I even miss the perfection in Zest but that was ages ago! Still my heart is broken. I didn't like how TY played - mixed style between Inno and Maru, the terrans that I usually don't like, but I can understand how TY wanted to avoid Maru's prep with Trap. In fact, TY was the only player that could eventually stop Maru for a 4th Code S. Or may be sOs and Gumiho.
Don't underestimate the power of teamkill. The fact you practice with the person forever may result in a preparation that completely reads your enemy. The first game of Maru v sOs was the prime example, and I will repeat that forever, if that wasn't aired and somebody removed the names and placed the replay into the cheating thread here many people would believe the maphack was present. sOs anticipated every Maru's move so precisely.
|
On April 01 2019 14:52 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 08:27 NinjaNight wrote:On April 01 2019 06:41 deacon.frost wrote:On April 01 2019 06:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 01 2019 03:47 NinjaNight wrote:On March 31 2019 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 31 2019 18:27 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote:
Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory. If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game. Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays. Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time. Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it? Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map. Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line. Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though Just my thought :> The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player. That's more or less the 3rd reason
Nah not at all. He said it may annoy players psychologically. I said something much different.
|
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote:
I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is undeniable but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 01 2019 22:24 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote:
I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off. He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested. Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment. Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan  Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys.
Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact
+ Show Spoiler +HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2 2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans 2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans 2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink.
Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
|
I'm surprise people think Maru could win easily against Trap in the semi. Have anyone forgotten how he got 2-0 by Trap at IEM quite recently? Not to mention 3-0 by sOs at Blizzcon (Both team kills). Maru said it himself in the interview after Dear Match that he had headaches because of so many losses in practice games against Protoss. Thoughts on this?
|
France12955 Posts
On April 01 2019 23:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2019 22:24 Xain0n wrote:On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote:
I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off. He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested. Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment. Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion. Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2 2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans 2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans 2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational" So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins. Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23. Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
I heard uThermal talk about it for a while. Basically before BlizzCon he was saying zergs will do very well and terran won't do much, so people should stop hyping Maru, because in his opinion, terran was only good in prepared matches.
We didn't get to see Maru against good zergs in that blizzcon but it seems true that in LotV terran as a race does bad across a variety of patches in weekenders.
Maru was the savior of terran during 2018, hopefully he inspires us to play again in 2019 by winning multiple GSLs in a row.
On April 01 2019 23:02 pichoo wrote:
I'm surprise people think Maru could win easily against Trap in the semi. Have anyone forgotten how he got 2-0 by Trap at IEM quite recently? Not to mention 3-0 by sOs at Blizzcon (Both team kills). Maru said it himself in the interview after Dear Match that he had headaches because of so many losses in practice games against Protoss. Thoughts on this?
It will be an extremely difficult match for sure, but in bo7 with preparation I think Maru has the tools to beat Trap, and I think it's an easier match than TY because Maru seems bad at current TvT and TY has always been difficult for him to beat iirc, with the WESG losses in the past and the very close GSL.
So it's not so much about Trap being easy, but about TY being very difficult and Trap being doable if Maru was able to beat Dear the way he did
|
The only competitive terran atm has problems in weekenders and people are spinning it into terran as a race being somehow magically weaker in "weekenders". (Btw blizzcon allows almost as much preparation as GSL.)
The other terrans are performing badly in weekenders as well as in GSL (except for TY's 1 deep run).
|
Trap Wins over Classic 4-1 in Finals.
|
On April 01 2019 23:01 deacon.frost wrote:
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink.
Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
What changed (in my opinion as high master Terran, so probably biased) is that every little mistake by a terran player is now much more exploitable, especially in early game. The main reason why I agree with uThermal that Terran is good for preparation format is not because Zerg and Protoss do not benefit from preparation, but because there are so many tiny changes that Terrans can apply to their gameplay to either cut corners or be more aggressive that you need time to prepare specifically for your opponent. They may be as small as making an additional marine or scout an additional proxy spot, or as big as rushing out 3rd cc, but those adjustments can impact the game immensely. For example, against a macro player like Stats or Dear, Maru can cut a lot more corners than against herO, but it is knowing WHICH and HOW MANY corners to cut is a skill that you obtain through rigorous and demanding preparation. Zerg and Protoss are to my understanding the races that can adapt on the fly much faster than Terran (at least in vs T matchups), so they don't benefit as much from the long GSL preparation times.
On April 01 2019 23:02 pichoo wrote:
I'm surprise people think Maru could win easily against Trap in the semi. Have anyone forgotten how he got 2-0 by Trap at IEM quite recently? Not to mention 3-0 by sOs at Blizzcon (Both team kills). Maru said it himself in the interview after Dear Match that he had headaches because of so many losses in practice games against Protoss. Thoughts on this?
That's true, but it was a best of 3 in a large round robin group stage where Maru didn't get a week to prepare for each specific opponent. Looking at how Maru dismantled Dear and how Trap looked weak in games 3 and 4 against TY I really think Maru has a clear road to the finals just with his mechanical superiority to Trap. Count in a week's preparation time and I think Trap has a very slim shot at getting to the finals. Don't get me wrong, I really like Trap as a player and would really be happy for him if he advances, but historically his games, especially against Terran, don't make me feel like he has a chance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
