The Code S quarterfinal matches concluded with Maru and Trap advancing to face each other in the semifinals. Maru was able to end Dear's twenty-game PvT winning streak by blowing apart the Phoenix opener that had netted Dear several key wins, keeping his hopes for a fourth straight Code S championship alive. Meanwhile, Trap took full advantage of his first Code S RO8 appearance in years, defeating TY 3-2 to advance to the semifinals.
Dark will take on Classic on Wednesday, Apr 03 9:30am GMT (GMT+00:00) while Maru will face Trap on Saturday, Apr 06 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
I've never seen TY so mentally on the edge after that alt-tab/window incident on Game 1 and was really impressed he managed to pull it back to 2-2 after that.
Without that drama I reckon TY could have taken it 3-1. His prep was actually really good. Maru prepared Trap for usual TY so TY prepped by not playing like TY. Clever and apt.
With all that said, the Twitch chat was hilarious with all the "tactical alt-tab" and "tactical GG" trolling.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah, every terran does that, especially on macro friendly maps, but must be a mentality!
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Maru was ahead. 5x mines drops still took ~11 probes and a lot of mining time... while Maru was doing a very greedy 3CC. Plus, Dear spend his money on phoenix (cost more than mine drops) only to ok-ish defend before losing them. So, one going drops mines ->3rd cc; the other phoenix->third nexus, and it's Dear taking some damage : makes sense Maru is ahead.
Looking at Maru vs Dear I wonder if the recent balance change didn't straight up make things worse. It seems to me that Terran is in an even better spot with their midgame pushes while still competely unable to win lategame. I really thing the protoss nerf didn't nerf what matters (lategame) but just made it harder for them to deal with the tank strats.
Of course Maru is insane and it's hard to call anything based on his games because sometimes it just straight up does not make sense.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
On March 31 2019 20:39 Jerom wrote: Looking at Maru vs Dear I wonder if the recent balance change didn't straight up make things worse. It seems to me that Terran is in an even better spot with their midgame pushes while still competely unable to win lategame. I really thing the protoss nerf didn't nerf what matters (lategame) but just made it harder for them to deal with the tank strats.
Of course Maru is insane and it's hard to call anything based on his games because sometimes it just straight up does not make sense.
Everyone who understands this game already called that when the change was announced but Blizzard still did their thing. Things are rough without david kim
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Maru was destroyed where?That's flat out wrong, Dear lost most engagements but he won because he could force maru to multitask way more by having to micro two fronts while Dear just had to micro his hts+tempests and mostly just let the zealots and dts do their thing while expanding, and despite all that Maru almost pulled it off, if anything he looked extremely good in the late game.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Maru was destroyed where?That's flat out wrong, Dear lost most engagements but he won because he could force maru to multitask way more by having to micro two fronts while Dear just had to micro his hts+tempests and mostly just let the zealots and dts do their thing while expanding, and despite all that Maru almost pulled it off, if anything he looked extremely good in the late game.
Nah, Maru lost the game when he went for 2-1-1 and did nothing while losing 8 marines and medevac. That was game over. When Maru was taking 4th Dear was taking 5th and started to build a huge bank... Maru was destroyed because he was so far behind.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
Just my thought :>
The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Maru was destroyed where?That's flat out wrong, Dear lost most engagements but he won because he could force maru to multitask way more by having to micro two fronts while Dear just had to micro his hts+tempests and mostly just let the zealots and dts do their thing while expanding, and despite all that Maru almost pulled it off, if anything he looked extremely good in the late game.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
Just my thought :>
The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
It's far from unbeatable, Maru tried the same mass WM strategy against Classic on Backwater in last year's semifinals. Classic defended and counterattacked, Maru had nothing but mines and lost instantly.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
Just my thought :>
The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
It's far from unbeatable, Maru tried the same mass WM strategy against Classic on Backwater in last year's semifinals. Classic defended and counterattacked, Maru had nothing but mines and lost instantly.
Huh? I said nothing about it being unbeatable or too strong. It's definitely very hard to deal with though.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
Just my thought :>
The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
Another important reason: Maru forced a specific army comoposition out of Dear. All those phoenixes and stalkers were a good thing to deal with the drops but Maru could eventually a solid terran ground army which doesn't care about those units.
The mass widow mine drops creates a level of uncertainty that eats up Protoss APM and a lot of attention. It disincentives Protoss moving out due to the attention spread which might then allow the (n+1)th drop to work. Look up Maru's infamous game against Myungsik. It's a similar mentality to Maru's mass Banshee harass (where he trickles in one after another).
PS Hoping for a Maru vs Dark finals. That way Maru either gets his 4th title (yay!) or Dark finally gets his first.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
Just my thought :>
The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
Honestly, even as a Dear's fan, his moves were not so smooth and clean even in Ro16. Not the perfect micro. I even miss the perfection in Zest but that was ages ago! Still my heart is broken. I didn't like how TY played - mixed style between Inno and Maru, the terrans that I usually don't like, but I can understand how TY wanted to avoid Maru's prep with Trap. In fact, TY was the only player that could eventually stop Maru for a 4th Code S. Or may be sOs and Gumiho.
On April 01 2019 16:13 Veluvian wrote: Honestly, even as a Dear's fan, his moves were not so smooth and clean even in Ro16. Not the perfect micro. I even miss the perfection in Zest but that was ages ago! Still my heart is broken. I didn't like how TY played - mixed style between Inno and Maru, the terrans that I usually don't like, but I can understand how TY wanted to avoid Maru's prep with Trap. In fact, TY was the only player that could eventually stop Maru for a 4th Code S. Or may be sOs and Gumiho.
Don't underestimate the power of teamkill. The fact you practice with the person forever may result in a preparation that completely reads your enemy. The first game of Maru v sOs was the prime example, and I will repeat that forever, if that wasn't aired and somebody removed the names and placed the replay into the cheating thread here many people would believe the maphack was present. sOs anticipated every Maru's move so precisely.
On March 31 2019 14:57 mierin wrote: Maru: P imba! 3-1 lol...especially after no fewer than 5 failed widow mine drops still netted him victory.
If you look closely that game Maru actually goes pretty even, economy and supply wise, don't ask me how he does it but he does keep pace with Trap. He was not behind due to that. If you look at the last game where he loses 2 mines and a medivac in the start of the game, Maru says in his interview that if Dear wouldn't have gone for fancy tech (storm drops) but built army to defend Maru would have lost since he was behind. Dears decision making there was way off, why go for storm drops against a terran that is basically going for an all-inish push every game.
Also to be fair, in the one long macro game Maru was destroyed. Pull the boys or gg seems to be the mentality of most terran nowadays.
Yeah I think Maru's strategy can be described as eco-cheese. He keeps the toss honest with constant wm drops while playing very greedy behind. If Dear would've done anything aggressive Maru would have just instantly died though as he had only a single marine at home for a long time.
Dang so how does he know he can do this build and get away with it?
Probably analyzed how Dear likes to play on that map.
Maru played the same style before, he was sending medevac after medevac with widow mines, IMO it's for these 2 reasons: 1) It keeps Protoss at home, so he can go slightly greedy(since observers are watching drops/Protoss base I can't tell how much greedy is he ) 2) Even if Protoss defends 10 drops, the 11th can do shit ton of damage, because it only takes one missed drop to lose 3/4 of the mineral line.
Edit> Bonus 3rd reason - it should do some psychic damage to the Protoss. If you're getting constantly harassed - while it does nothing, it may annoy players. Not sure how much dear can be cool under the pressure, but it would explain why Maru uses this style against some players and not all players. Not sure though
Just my thought :>
The most important reason to me that you didn't even mention is it's very hard to stay on top of defending heavy Terran harass and even if you successfully stay on top of it it's constantly taking all your attention and making it very hard for you to macro properly or pay any attention to what the terran is doing at home. At least that's my experience as a high master protoss player.
That's more or less the 3rd reason
Nah not at all. He said it may annoy players psychologically. I said something much different.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is undeniable but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
I'm surprise people think Maru could win easily against Trap in the semi. Have anyone forgotten how he got 2-0 by Trap at IEM quite recently? Not to mention 3-0 by sOs at Blizzcon (Both team kills). Maru said it himself in the interview after Dear Match that he had headaches because of so many losses in practice games against Protoss. Thoughts on this?
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
I heard uThermal talk about it for a while. Basically before BlizzCon he was saying zergs will do very well and terran won't do much, so people should stop hyping Maru, because in his opinion, terran was only good in prepared matches. We didn't get to see Maru against good zergs in that blizzcon but it seems true that in LotV terran as a race does bad across a variety of patches in weekenders.
Maru was the savior of terran during 2018, hopefully he inspires us to play again in 2019 by winning multiple GSLs in a row.
On April 01 2019 23:02 pichoo wrote: I'm surprise people think Maru could win easily against Trap in the semi. Have anyone forgotten how he got 2-0 by Trap at IEM quite recently? Not to mention 3-0 by sOs at Blizzcon (Both team kills). Maru said it himself in the interview after Dear Match that he had headaches because of so many losses in practice games against Protoss. Thoughts on this?
It will be an extremely difficult match for sure, but in bo7 with preparation I think Maru has the tools to beat Trap, and I think it's an easier match than TY because Maru seems bad at current TvT and TY has always been difficult for him to beat iirc, with the WESG losses in the past and the very close GSL. So it's not so much about Trap being easy, but about TY being very difficult and Trap being doable if Maru was able to beat Dear the way he did
The only competitive terran atm has problems in weekenders and people are spinning it into terran as a race being somehow magically weaker in "weekenders". (Btw blizzcon allows almost as much preparation as GSL.) The other terrans are performing badly in weekenders as well as in GSL (except for TY's 1 deep run).
On April 01 2019 23:01 deacon.frost wrote: Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
What changed (in my opinion as high master Terran, so probably biased) is that every little mistake by a terran player is now much more exploitable, especially in early game. The main reason why I agree with uThermal that Terran is good for preparation format is not because Zerg and Protoss do not benefit from preparation, but because there are so many tiny changes that Terrans can apply to their gameplay to either cut corners or be more aggressive that you need time to prepare specifically for your opponent. They may be as small as making an additional marine or scout an additional proxy spot, or as big as rushing out 3rd cc, but those adjustments can impact the game immensely. For example, against a macro player like Stats or Dear, Maru can cut a lot more corners than against herO, but it is knowing WHICH and HOW MANY corners to cut is a skill that you obtain through rigorous and demanding preparation. Zerg and Protoss are to my understanding the races that can adapt on the fly much faster than Terran (at least in vs T matchups), so they don't benefit as much from the long GSL preparation times.
On April 01 2019 23:02 pichoo wrote: I'm surprise people think Maru could win easily against Trap in the semi. Have anyone forgotten how he got 2-0 by Trap at IEM quite recently? Not to mention 3-0 by sOs at Blizzcon (Both team kills). Maru said it himself in the interview after Dear Match that he had headaches because of so many losses in practice games against Protoss. Thoughts on this?
That's true, but it was a best of 3 in a large round robin group stage where Maru didn't get a week to prepare for each specific opponent. Looking at how Maru dismantled Dear and how Trap looked weak in games 3 and 4 against TY I really think Maru has a clear road to the finals just with his mechanical superiority to Trap. Count in a week's preparation time and I think Trap has a very slim shot at getting to the finals. Don't get me wrong, I really like Trap as a player and would really be happy for him if he advances, but historically his games, especially against Terran, don't make me feel like he has a chance.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
Well, Serral definitely is not GOAT atm so you can if you want, without any doubt.
You missed Marinelord's second place at Dreamhack Open and Byun's victory at World Cyber Arena(2016), as well as Innovation's victory at GSL Code S S3(2017); this brings the total up to 26. If anything, Terran's representation in finals was especially low in 2018 while substantially on par with those of the other races in 2015-2017.
What's truly interesting is that despite Terran, in LoTV, has been the least represented race in finals, most of these participations converted into victories so that they lifted 18 premier trophies(a quite impressive 18-8 record overall,even more impressive considering the 7-3 in "preparation" tournaments), just as many as Protoss, whose record in finals is instead negative, did in the same period.
I would not call Maru the only competitive Terran player, but the fact he shines so brightly at preparation tournaments actually warps Terran's performance as a whole in this kind of tourneys as he alone won four out of seven. The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
What I was saying, by the way, was simply addressing the claim Maru could become the GOAT with his fourth consecutive Code S title; he most definitely carried Terran race alone in 2018 and seven Premier titles are indeed noteworthy, even if not enough. Along with the numbers, he currently lacks the international successes a true GOAT should have in my opinion.
The bad performance at IEM is not contrasted by the WESG victory because it’s a tournament with only a handful of Koreans and Serral. Most good foreigners also eliminated each other in group A.
That’s really not comparable to the IEM disaster.
As for the international success, KR aren’t allowed to compete in WCS so there isn’t that many international tournaments to play in.
He has been 1st, 2nd and 3rd at WESG (best WESG record I’d say?), did decently in IEMs overall, and before his GSL runs he was an OSL winner as well as a pro league beast.
A fourth GSL win in a row would have him equal in GSL wins as other GOAT candidates except he would have done it in a row which is incredible, no matter how you put it, especially since it’s another year after the big balance patch post blizzcon.
On April 01 2019 23:37 Charoisaur wrote: The only competitive terran atm has problems in weekenders and people are spinning it into terran as a race being somehow magically weaker in "weekenders". (Btw blizzcon allows almost as much preparation as GSL.) The other terrans are performing badly in weekenders as well as in GSL (except for TY's 1 deep run).
Well, no. GSL gives a week for every playoff opponent while Blizzcon gives a week for the entire playoffs being played in 1 weekend. That's a huge difference considering that you have to cut regeneration time in order to make full use of that one day - which are only a few hours, considering the necessity of sleep, eat, travel from/to venue, fan interaction... For GSL you can come up with and test new builds for each player individually, while Blizzcon mostly only allows for an adaption out of the repertoire already attained in a player's carreer.
On April 02 2019 02:29 Poopi wrote: A fourth GSL win in a row would have him equal in GSL wins as other GOAT candidates except he would have done it in a row which is incredible, no matter how you put it, especially since it’s another year after the big balance patch post blizzcon.
He already has three GSL wins, same as Mvp and INno. Their fourth titles were from GSL vs The World which were weekenders, and pretty weak ones at that (only 8 koreans).
If you value SSL and OSL to the same degree then Maru has five titles ahead of INno's four and Mvp's three.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
Well, Serral definitely is not GOAT atm so you can if you want, without any doubt.
You missed Marinelord's second place at Dreamhack Open and Byun's victory at World Cyber Arena(2016), as well as Innovation's victory at GSL Code S S3(2017); this brings the total up to 26. If anything, Terran's representation in finals was especially low in 2018 while substantially on par with those of the other races in 2015-2017.
What's truly interesting is that despite Terran, in LoTV, has been the least represented race in finals, most of these participations converted into victories so that they lifted 18 premier trophies(a quite impressive 18-8 record overall,even more impressive considering the 7-3 in "preparation" tournaments), just as many as Protoss, whose record in finals is instead negative, did in the same period.
I would not call Maru the only competitive Terran player, but the fact he shines so brightly at preparation tournaments actually warps Terran's performance as a whole in this kind of tourneys as he alone won four out of seven. The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
What I was saying, by the way, was simply addressing the claim Maru could become the GOAT with his fourth consecutive Code S title; he most definitely carried Terran race alone in 2018 and seven Premier titles are indeed noteworthy, even if not enough. Along with the numbers, he currently lacks the international successes a true GOAT should have in my opinion.
I'm not claiming him, but I wouldn't claim it on premiere tourneys wins, that would be Taeja who never won GSL even when it was in Summer
Anyway, Maru shouldn't be GOAT simply on the premise he seems to not care about some tournaments, even more than in GSL (and he plays like that )
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
That's the point actually. They are weaker, hence why they do worse at weekenders, but given preparation in starcraft you can even the odds with builds that can last like only one series or something (think Gumiho vs Dark series in 2018), so it'll be more even in GSL. Especially since Maru is the best GSL player of LotV, he has mastered this tournament with his clever ro16 picks and good bo5/bo7 preparations.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
It's not that terran has fundamentally changed. It's that the game has fundamentally changed. LOTV completely changed this game, especially the economy now favors zerg and protoss.
If I was looking to describe changes in the game over time, I would focus less on patches and more on the average and median rush distances in tournament map pools over time.
Though I suppose that doesn’t shed any light on the “weekender theory” since weekenders use the same mapmpools as long events.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
Laugh if you feel like doing it, then; maybe you are right about 2018 when Maru's outstanding performance made out for the lack of results of Terran(he was still capable of winning double the Premier titles of the supposedly very strong Protoss race).
Coming to 2019, Inno's victory at WESG was not granted just because a Terran won the previous two editions; IEM was so incredibly bad it should probably be disregarded as an accident, I don't see Terran at 40% win rate anywhere. Not considering Maru's usual great run in GSL, Heromarine placing at least third in WCS already is the best placement a foreigner Terran has had in the tournament; I called those FINE performances, I never wrote nor suggested they were STRONG.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
Coming to 2019, Inno's victory at WESG was not granted just because a Terran won the previous two editions
Nowhere did I say that - his victory doesn't say much because of the player field. He had to win a single series against a decent non-terran to win the tournament. In no way does that balance out IEM.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
Coming to 2019, Inno's victory at WESG was not granted just because a Terran won the previous two editions
Nowhere did I say that - his victory doesn't say much because of the player field. He had to win a single series against a decent non-terran to win the tournament. In no way does that balance out IEM.
Decent, uh? This only says Inno had a quite easy group and one relatively easy road to semifinals; I agree, however, that IEM is harder than WESG and that last one was a disaster for Terran. Still, I find it weird that such a "weak" race in 2019 has had a Premier victory and has a player in the semifinals of both Code S and WCS Winter; that's, again, better than Protoss achieved and it makes me think IEM was just one anomaly. Let's see what happens at Super Tournament, at the moment the overall balance seems fine, with just matchups being a little more polarized than usual in certain matchups.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
Coming to 2019, Inno's victory at WESG was not granted just because a Terran won the previous two editions
Nowhere did I say that - his victory doesn't say much because of the player field. He had to win a single series against a decent non-terran to win the tournament. In no way does that balance out IEM.
Decent, uh? This only says Inno had a quite easy group and one relatively easy road to semifinals; I agree, however, that IEM is harder than WESG and that last one was a disaster for Terran. Still, I find it weird that such a "weak" race in 2019 has had a Premier victory and has a player in the semifinals of both Code S and WCS Winter; that's, again, better than Protoss achieved and it makes me think IEM was just one anomaly. Let's see what happens at Super Tournament, at the moment the overall balance seems fine, with just matchups being a little more polarized than usual in certain matchups.
perhap you should wonder why cant protoss win anything albeit they got so many advantages in this matchup instead
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
Of course it wasn't, but that was before LotV. Something in LotV changed this. Tell me the reason why Terrans do well in GSL and they are weak in weekenders. What's the reasoning? Why? Maru don't care? Innovation didn't care? TY didn't care? ByuN didn't care? GumiHo didn't care? Except TY these are all players who won Code S in LotV IIRC. And what more - Maru dominated a year in Code S. At the same time these players didn't dominate weekenders. And I don't need them to dominate per se, but at least run decently.
That's why I provided numbers and I agree with you, the further we go into LotV the worse for Terrans in weekenders. At the start it didn't look so bad because ... I can't say. But how is it possible that we have Maru/TY finals and none of these can do decently in Souper Tournament II? We can blame team strategy on Maru v sOs, but what about TY v Creator?
I mean that only half seriously, but the trend was set
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
Of course it wasn't, but that was before LotV. Something in LotV changed this. Tell me the reason why Terrans do well in GSL and they are weak in weekenders. What's the reasoning? Why? Maru don't care? Innovation didn't care? TY didn't care? ByuN didn't care? GumiHo didn't care? Except TY these are all players who won Code S in LotV IIRC. And what more - Maru dominated a year in Code S. At the same time these players didn't dominate weekenders. And I don't need them to dominate per se, but at least run decently.
That's why I provided numbers and I agree with you, the further we go into LotV the worse for Terrans in weekenders. At the start it didn't look so bad because ... I can't say. But how is it possible that we have Maru/TY finals and none of these can do decently in Souper Tournament II? We can blame team strategy on Maru v sOs, but what about TY v Creator?
I mean that only half seriously, but the trend was set
all it takes to change that agenda is a couple of tournament wins by terrans. You CANT observe trends and correlations properly with so few data points.
On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote: I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.
He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.
Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.
Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.
Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan Thank you very much
Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys. Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact + Show Spoiler +
HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV) 6 + 2
2017: WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome ) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd) 5 + 4 Terrans
2018: WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S 1 + 4 Terrans
2019 WESG Innovation 1 Terran so far
Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"
So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink. Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.
Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.
Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.
The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.
This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".
The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this. You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon. Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.
Of course it wasn't, but that was before LotV. Something in LotV changed this. Tell me the reason why Terrans do well in GSL and they are weak in weekenders. What's the reasoning? Why? Maru don't care? Innovation didn't care? TY didn't care? ByuN didn't care? GumiHo didn't care? Except TY these are all players who won Code S in LotV IIRC. And what more - Maru dominated a year in Code S. At the same time these players didn't dominate weekenders. And I don't need them to dominate per se, but at least run decently.
That's why I provided numbers and I agree with you, the further we go into LotV the worse for Terrans in weekenders. At the start it didn't look so bad because ... I can't say. But how is it possible that we have Maru/TY finals and none of these can do decently in Souper Tournament II? We can blame team strategy on Maru v sOs, but what about TY v Creator?
I mean that only half seriously, but the trend was set
Neither Inno nor Gumiho nor Byun had a single deep GSL run since the start of 2018 though. It's only Maru and to some extent TY performing well there.
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2019/regeneration734.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2019/s1bracket4.png)
)
Thank you very much 
