On April 01 2019 17:31 Poopi wrote:
I want Maru to win a 4th straight GSL across balance patches, he would be so close to being the uncontested GOAT if he manages to pull it off.

He would be the most accomplished player in GSL only, a great achievement indeed; still far from being GOAT, let alone uncontested.

Maru's level of play can be incredibly high and he seems to be able to express it entirely in a long preparation tournament as Code S is, while failing way too often in shorter competitions; also, it might be he is one of the players who benefit the most from the collective efforts produced by a teamhouse environment.

Maru's skill is uncontested but he doesn't really seem he is especially capable of releasing it at his will(and by himself?); moreover, would he win this Code S, it would be his seventh Premier tournament after being around since the very beginning of Sc2. Not the numbers a GOAT should have, in my opinion.

Nice, I will save this argument and use it aganist a random Serral fan

Thank you very much

Aaanyway, let's think about it for a while, so far in LotV we had 57 premier tournaments. Out of those we had 8 GSL Code S and 6 Starleagues. I didn't check if both Starleagues were preparational, let's say for the sake of fun they were. The rest were weekenders. That leaves us with 43 non-preparational tourneys.
Out of those the following Terrans made an Impact

+ Show Spoiler +

HSC XII MMA, 2016 WCS Winter - Polt, IEM XI - uThermal & Innovation(2 events), Blizzcon ByuN + 2016 WCS Summer Polt(2nd place) AND ByuN(Code S S2 winner) and TY(Code S1 2nd) for 2016 & 2015(well, there were 2 tourneys in 2015 in LotV)
6 + 2

2017:
WESG TY/Maru, IEM XI WC TY(yeah, looks awesome

) GSL vs the World - Inno/TY AND SSL - Innovation, GSL S1 aLive(2nd), GSL S2 GumiHo, SSL 2 Bunny(2nd)
5 + 4 Terrans

2018:
WESG - Maru and 3 times Maru and TY from Code S
1 + 4 Terrans

2019
WESG Innovation
1 Terran so far

Summary score is 13 Terrans icons from non-preparational tournaments and 10 from "preparational"

So, what can we talk about you ask? We have 57 premier tournaments, out of those premier tournaments we keep 1st and 2nd easily readable. From 114 Terran icons we have ASTONISHING 23 icons!!! Think about that, let that sink.
Out of possible 28 preparational tournaments we have 10 Terran and out of those 6 wins.

Maybe, just maybe, Terran is very badly designed race for weekenders in LotV for w/e reason. I have no clue what changed since Taeja/Polt/MMA/Bomber times but in LotV Terrans don't know how to win weekenders, see the numbers. We have possible 114 places for Terrans and they took 23.

Feel free to correct me. And it's not about Terrans being bad suddenly. I have no idea what's the problem, but if you want to take the number of premier wins let's talk about the fact that the whole LotV is very anti-terran number-wise.

The race is not looking weak in 2019, the atrocious IEM is contrasted by WESG's victory while Maru and Heromarine are doing fine in the final stages of Code S and WCS Winter.

This has to be a joke. WESG was always going to have strong terran results with how the player field looked like and I wouldn't exactly call 1 terran being in the ro8 of WCS Winter "strong terran performance".

The reason why I'm calling bogus on this whole "terran is worse in weekend tournaments" narrative is because it was not always like this.
You don't even have to go back to the MMA/TaeJa/Polt/Bomber days - pre 2018 terran was still doing fine at weekenders with Inno winning IEM Gyeonggi and GSL vs the world, TY winning WESG and Katowice and ByuN winning Blizzcon.
Unless you can explain to me how terran has fundamentally changed from 2017 to 2018 to make them suddenly weak in weekend tournaments only I think it's much more likely that Terran is just weaker than the other races and Maru just goes god-mode in the GSL.

Of course it wasn't, but that was before LotV. Something in LotV changed this. Tell me the reason why Terrans do well in GSL and they are weak in weekenders. What's the reasoning? Why? Maru don't care? Innovation didn't care? TY didn't care? ByuN didn't care? GumiHo didn't care? Except TY these are all players who won Code S in LotV IIRC. And what more - Maru dominated a year in Code S. At the same time these players didn't dominate weekenders. And I don't need them to dominate per se, but at least run decently.

That's why I provided numbers and I agree with you, the further we go into LotV the worse for Terrans in weekenders. At the start it didn't look so bad because ... I can't say. But how is it possible that we have Maru/TY finals and none of these can do decently in Souper Tournament II? We can blame team strategy on Maru v sOs, but what about TY v Creator?

I mean that only half seriously, but the trend was set

all it takes to change that agenda is a couple of tournament wins by terrans. You CANT observe trends and correlations properly with so few data points.

Charoisaur

Germany16103 Posts

April 02 2019 12:00 GMT

#62

On April 02 2019 19:37 deacon.frost wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 02 2019 06:11 Charoisaur wrote:

On April 02 2019 02:13 Xain0n wrote:

On April 01 2019 23:01 deacon.frost wrote: