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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs
Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history.
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On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : (((((((
Exactly, better go for proxy 2/3 rax, because I never saw this strategy win (scv pull)
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136
NesTea still godlike, I approve this message!
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate
TY has won a lot of games with SCV pulls ever since early 2018, even at Blizzcon against Neeb. Often times it's not even the goal at the start of the game to SCV pull. It's a reaction to Protoss delaying your economy too much. A timing you try to hit before they can make proper use of the economy advantage.
Even Inno was pretty close to pushing through against sOs, and that was with a bad opening and with marines without combat shields vs colossus.
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On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136
holy hell, I wasnt aware Flash casually holds the best TvZ winrate in SC2
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 22 2019 05:34 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136 holy hell, I wasnt aware Flash casually holds the best TvZ winrate in SC2
Flash era ended with the mech v Z state IIRC, that helped a litte too 
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On March 22 2019 06:22 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 05:34 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136 holy hell, I wasnt aware Flash casually holds the best TvZ winrate in SC2 Flash era ended with the mech v Z state IIRC, that helped a litte too
He also just barely qualifies for the "20 games" cutoff of the table; never reaching the single elimination bracket may also be helpful.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 22 2019 06:45 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 06:22 deacon.frost wrote:On March 22 2019 05:34 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136 holy hell, I wasnt aware Flash casually holds the best TvZ winrate in SC2 Flash era ended with the mech v Z state IIRC, that helped a litte too He also just barely qualifies for the "20 games" cutoff of the table; never reaching the single elimination bracket may also be helpful.
Considering GSL was usually more balanced with P/Z/T ratio it's still incredible number. I am certainly no Flash fan, but this is still nice ratio.
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On March 21 2019 13:10 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 08:53 meorcmespam wrote:On March 21 2019 08:23 [F_]aths wrote:
I hope Classic wins this. He deserves a GSL trophy. i mean he has 2 technically not really, he only has one GSL (the other one is SSL)
gsl and super tournament. Not a full blown gsl, but still a gsl tournament
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On March 21 2019 16:17 Toua wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 13:10 AzAlexZ wrote:On March 21 2019 08:53 meorcmespam wrote:On March 21 2019 08:23 [F_]aths wrote:
I hope Classic wins this. He deserves a GSL trophy. i mean he has 2 technically not really, he only has one GSL (the other one is SSL) He meant a Code S and a Super tournament
yup, thought that was self explanatory. guess not
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United States97277 Posts
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It's a Classic Trap to defeat the Robot Innovation.
Like fly Innovation to China and get drunk with a high tournament prize money. xD
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On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136
Interesting that none of them are ZvT or PvT
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On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136
Re watch Zest vs Inno GSL final...
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Canada8991 Posts
On March 22 2019 14:57 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136 Re watch Zest vs Inno GSL final...
I'm fairly sure there's no such thing.
Maybe a semi?
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On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this.
I kinda understood most SCV pulls. They were mostly done in games where inno seemed to have gotten behind. For example sOs made phoenix and inno basically just lost the game to them but then almost won with a great push where scvs tanked so much damage. Maybe at some point he thought about trying to play it lategame but after stats dismantled it like he did I would totally agree with SCV pulls.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 22 2019 15:42 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 14:57 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136 Re watch Zest vs Inno GSL final... I'm fairly sure there's no such thing. Maybe a semi?
Highest round they ever met in GSL was Ro8.
Also as mentioned earlier, the tweet is from a while ago, some things have changed. For example, TY should be taking Mvp's place in the top 10 after Ro16.
On March 22 2019 12:13 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136 Interesting that none of them are ZvT or PvT
PartinG, herO and Classic are just a few wins shy of top 10 for PvT and so was RorO for ZvT.
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inno put all his training in tvz so the protoss players just kicked him out like a fly xD
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On March 21 2019 16:44 litLikeBic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 09:03 narusensei22 wrote:
Like I said, there are many in Korea who still can defeat INno the WESG World Champion Like it's surprising? Only reason Inno won WESG is because he lucked out and dodged Protoss.
u mean protoss the weakest race in sc2 ? lucky him xD
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On March 22 2019 05:04 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2019 03:16 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 22 2019 00:06 ejozl wrote:On March 21 2019 23:56 Jerom wrote:On March 21 2019 20:49 ejozl wrote:
Pretty sure SCV pull has exactly 0% winrate, I think Terrans that want to study TvP shouldn't look at guys who scv pull, these guys clearly have a mental block in the matchup.
Also.. sOs, you have some of the sickest micro, just do the boring 2 base Adept+Immo+Sentry push, it'll give you a good chance of winning, you don't have to outwit EVERY opponent : ((((((( Innovation is one of the best TvP players in the world. His aligulac rating is extremely close to Maru and TY. If Innovation has a mental block in the matchup then all terrans in the world have a mental block in the match up. Hmm. I always thought his weakness was cheesy Protoss players, definitely, I remember this to be the case during proleague. Obv. he's an incredibly skilled player and has solid builds, but pulling scv's honestly hasn't worked since LotV. It seems that most Terrans have a mental block vs Protoss and for good reason, no one seems to have solved the meta yet, but I think we should look for guys who are still trying to come up with solutions, rather than from games like this. You are correct. Inno was never known for his killer TvP it was always "decent" at best and was always weak against cheesy and aggressive toss players such as herO, sOs Inno's TvP is one of the most dominant match-ups in GSL history. https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1097987141601243136
Funny how this "Inno bad at TvP" is so persistent. I posted the same stats in the LR thread for the group the other day.
Dream actually has a 70,6% winrate in TvP, but he only played 17 matches.
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39276
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EPT
