• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:38
CEST 09:38
KST 16:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview3[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Do we have a pimpest plays list? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion AI Question
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1864 users

Serral's Revolution - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
125 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Xitah
Profile Joined October 2018
49 Posts
November 15 2018 11:23 GMT
#121
I have been thinking a lot about Serral and Maru lately and I think now I understand why this situation is very tricky:

1) It has been always the case that the top SC 2 players were in Korea. This means, if someone could win 3 GSLs in a row, that person would undoubtedly be the best player in the world and such an accomplishment would be considered an absolutely historic one. And this was also one of the reasons GSL was so hype: all the best players are here and they are all trying very hard. This assumption has been ingrained in us for so long that we no longer think about it, we don't question it and we don't consider what it would mean if it were false.

2) However, Serral proved that this year the above assumption is false. He has dominated all the top Koreans except Maru. So we can no longer assume that "all of the contenders for the best player were in Korea". As a result, we should look differently at those accomplishments by Maru; this year's GSL did not involve all the best players. I don't think anyone can dispute this fact, unless if you think Serral is not among the top 4 best players in the world which is a ridiculous assumption. So even if you place Serral as the no. 4 (which again, I cannot see how you can place him lower than no 2), the logical conclusion is that the GSLs this year did not involve all the contenders of the best player in the world. But of course, the WCS tournaments also did not involve all the contenders and in fact objectively, WCS were far less densely populated with the "contenders for the best player in the world" compared to GSL.

3) So what does this leave us with? I think with the reasonable conclusion that Maru and Serral are both no. 1 and no. 2 but so far Serral has had a better showing in the tournaments that they both have competed in this year with the caveat that they all have been "weekend" tournaments. On the other hand, the GSL format is also a little bit weird with the player selected groups so all in all, we do not have a definitive answer to the Serral vs Maru question.

Could Maru beat Serral if Serral were competing in GSL? Absolutely, but the other way around was also absolutely possible.
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
November 16 2018 14:56 GMT
#122
Finally a voice of reason
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
StasisField
Profile Joined August 2013
United States1086 Posts
November 16 2018 18:51 GMT
#123
On November 14 2018 02:36 imp42 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 01:52 Charoisaur wrote:
[...]
I don't think it's a coincidence that the youngest player in korean sc2 is now suddenly dominating the scene in his 8th year as a progamer.

that's a very interesting observation actually.
I'm curious how exactly mechanics of aging players deteriorate over time. Do you think it can be measured by apm?

In other fields (say software development for example) less fluid intelligence and slower speed are compensated with more experience. This surely holds in sc2 as well, but in sc2 we might be able to better separate the two components.

if we simplify "skill = mechanics + experience (knowledge)", then the fact players get worse with age means the gain in experience cannot make up for the loss in mechanics.

What are your thoughts?


I think it's more on the fly critical thinking than anything. I don't think players are slowing down as in their hands can't keep up. Just look at painists: they play for decades, keeping up the same speed and talent as they drift into their 50's+. Their ability to memorize a song and play it flawlessly is not hindered by their age nearly as quickly as we might think, and I believe the same can be said for a SC2 player's APM. The reason players get "slower" at a faster rate than a pianist does is because the human brain's ability to process information and critically think on the fly begins to slow down quite early in a person's life, starting in a person's early 20's if I remember correctly. Because of this, seeing and processing new information in the game takes longer in the brain, causing players to react slower and press buttons later than they used to.
What do you mean Immortals can't shoot up?
doggietres
Profile Joined November 2018
6 Posts
November 21 2018 23:33 GMT
#124
I don't want to detract from Serral's accomplishments. He has done something no foreigner has done in the past, so he definitely deserves the credit. However, I think people are overreacting to something that happened when the competitive scene's health has been declining in SC2, especially in South Korea. The Korean scene has not been as rigorous since almost all teams, except for Jin Air, had disbanded. Teams played integral part in maintaining a rigorous competitive scene Korea. They allowed players to focus on playing the game and practice more efficiently. Likely related to the issue of no team, the second problem is that South Korean scene has not seen a new high level pro in years. I can't remember the last time I saw a brand new player since Dream. Most Korean players are aging, and this definitely affects both their practice and tournament performances. With the lack of new talents to invigorate the game, the Korean scene has steadily lost the highly competitive environment that gave players incentives to come up with new game play. With all that said, I feel that Serral's accomplishment is likely a mixture of foreign scene improving as well as severely declining Korean scene.
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
November 22 2018 00:18 GMT
#125
As someone previously pointed out, there isn't new blood and the korean scene has less depth but top players stay strong; they might have aged, sure, but Maru, the one who dominated this year in Korea, was born in 1997!
Serral won Blizzcon facing the very top Koreans, not the supposedly lacking ones mid tier Koreans.
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
November 22 2018 01:06 GMT
#126
its not like older players cant keep up with the speed in one or two games, the problem is that your playstyle will gradually adapt to a slower gameplay because you can't keep training balls to the walls like you could when you were young.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft462
Nina 147
ProTech121
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 3183
Mind 228
Killer 172
Nal_rA 50
910 47
Hm[arnc] 25
ZergMaN 13
NotJumperer 12
Bale 9
Mong 8
[ Show more ]
Horang2 0
Dota 2
monkeys_forever248
NeuroSwarm89
Counter-Strike
ceh9433
allub98
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox330
Westballz43
Other Games
C9.Mang0382
Sick126
Mew2King74
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick876
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 77
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4825
• Stunt540
Upcoming Events
Escore
2h 23m
The PondCast
2h 23m
WardiTV Invitational
3h 23m
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Big Brain Bouts
8h 23m
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
14h 23m
Replay Cast
16h 23m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 2h
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
1d 3h
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 7h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 11h
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
BSL
2 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
Escore Tournament S2: W6
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.