EPTMy suggestion would be some thing like VIP lobby. When you reach certain level, you could join the lobby and create, join games that count toward the ladder system.
Thoughts on auto-matchmaking - Page 8
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raz0rtail
Australia42 Posts
My suggestion would be some thing like VIP lobby. When you reach certain level, you could join the lobby and create, join games that count toward the ladder system. | ||
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
On June 06 2007 20:30 SpiritAshura wrote: i dunno what level you were at in wc3 (since I'm sure that 50-55% and below players are like that a LOT more than people above that), but i never deal with that on US East or Europe. Once you get passed that, it's basically smooth sailing and just about always mannered. well i'm talking in general...+wc3 has some major manner issues cuz lately like 2-3players got kicked out of teams cuz of their manner. | ||
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Pads
England3228 Posts
On June 05 2007 12:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: if it's possible to check out match lists, someone who plays only one matchup on one match gets little credit for his skill. it's also normally impossible to get top 16 or whatever playing only one matchup (at least I cannot recall anyone being top 16 on any competitive ladder while only playing one matchup) thus I cannot see the harm of this. the problem denying people the ability to pick opponents (through people wanting to play against eachother simply not playing ladder, which IS a problem.. ) is much greater than the disadvantage it gives. I recall so many great sets of games between great players on wgtour, tltour, etc, that could not have taken place with AMM. allowing the community to follow how their preferred players fare in bo5 or bo7 games against other great players is great entertainment, and allowing people to play bo5 or bo7 games is also great. there being a ladder which people whom normally play practice games against eachother can play ladder games against eachother instead just makes everything sweeter; I know that during TLT etc I played many awesome series of games against players that I would normally be able to play normal practice games with too, however the games being ladder added another significance to the games and made them even better. the option for picking map and opponent to play against is a necessity. I know that I personally would often not have played ladder if it was not possible, and this could end up being the case for sc2 too if AMM is implemented; many of the best players might avoid the ladder if they are forced into playing random maps against random players as opposed to being allowed to play bo5 games against people they enjoy playing on maps they want to play. the slight disadvantage of the abuse it allows, and that people can choose to only play 1 map or 1 matchup, which is something, if the ladder is designed correctly anyone can check out for themselves, is insignificant. amm is a great tool for early levels of ladder, people who take no part in the community, and people who just want a quick random game. at the higher levels, the option for manual matchmaking is a necessity, or many of the best players simply will not take part, and this is much worse than some people getting an inflated score. mgz)ptak ? ;o~ | ||
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
nono, ptak went beyond that, he played one matchup vs one guy ^^ | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
On June 07 2007 00:58 Dendra wrote: well i'm talking in general...+wc3 has some major manner issues cuz lately like 2-3players got kicked out of teams cuz of their manner. There is probably some kind of natural law that states the bigger the community the more uncivilized it gets. There isn't anything about WC3 as such that makes the community hostile it's just the pure size of it. It's easy to behave badly when you don't expect to meet the person ever again. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Starcraft had the same issues when the community was larger and more active then it is now. Starcraft 2 is basically guaranteed to have issues like this and it is impossible for Blizzard to do much about it. One thing the could do is adding a report function so you can report people for being offensive and a moderator can go through the chat log and temp ban abusive people. Don't think AMM does any difference in either direction. | ||
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
On June 07 2007 07:52 Zironic wrote: There is probably some kind of natural law that states the bigger the community the more uncivilized it gets. There isn't anything about WC3 as such that makes the community hostile it's just the pure size of it. It's easy to behave badly when you don't expect to meet the person ever again. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Starcraft had the same issues when the community was larger and more active then it is now. Starcraft 2 is basically guaranteed to have issues like this and it is impossible for Blizzard to do much about it. One thing the could do is adding a report function so you can report people for being offensive and a moderator can go through the chat log and temp ban abusive people. Don't think AMM does any difference in either direction. blame amm for that issue - people sitting in random channels, playing random people which they most likely will never play again, in you play same people quite often, you meet them in popular channels etc. just how bad amm is you can tell by comparing both communities - sc has and always will popular channels as meeting places, awesome community websites like tl.net, etc. in wc3 it's all so...dead...i look at ggnet topics, the general ones, most of the posts come from sc gamers, like looking for clan, etc. i guess only thing that keeps wc3 alive is prize pool and fairly small difference between progamers and amateurs compared to sc whereas you have to train for year before even starting to win solid amateur non-korean players. | ||
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SpiritAshura
United States1271 Posts
On June 07 2007 00:58 Dendra wrote: well i'm talking in general...+wc3 has some major manner issues cuz lately like 2-3players got kicked out of teams cuz of their manner. that's an extremely low majority, especially at that level. 2-3 people who are bad mannered and the whole game is bad mannered now? the only problem is wc3 can never hope to be as balanced as sc due to heroes, items, random damage and so on, and the matchups aren't exactly even in some cases (notice how like 9/10 of the people that bitch are orcs...) It's just how the game is i suppose, sc2 shouldn't have nearly as much of that problem with balance wise bitching, although we will all get just as much if not even more bad manner bitching in general since the sc2 community is most likely going to be massive. edit: and since i just read your post, the community is growing still due to china's massive <3 for the game as of late, and the scene revolving around the pro tourneys is slowly growing as well. wcreplays.com has been growing a bit and is probably the main english community site. it's to be expected it will take awhile to grow to the size of the community revolving around the SC pro scene. gosu gamers probably isn't a very good example since it doesn't really have a community behind it for wc3. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On June 07 2007 08:52 Dendra wrote: blame amm for that issue - people sitting in random channels, playing random people which they most likely will never play again, in you play same people quite often, you meet them in popular channels etc. just how bad amm is you can tell by comparing both communities - sc has and always will popular channels as meeting places, awesome community websites like tl.net, etc. in wc3 it's all so...dead...i look at ggnet topics, the general ones, most of the posts come from sc gamers, like looking for clan, etc. i guess only thing that keeps wc3 alive is prize pool and fairly small difference between progamers and amateurs compared to sc whereas you have to train for year before even starting to win solid amateur non-korean players. That's not a balanced representation of the War3 community. What about sites like wcreplays which is devoted to high-level War3 play? It may not be TL.net but it's certainly better than GG.net. You're drawing comparisons between two completely different atmospheres, as well - the average SC player stays in whatever channel he autojoined (Brood War USA-4) and searches the Join Game list, whereas the average War3 player gets automatched with an opponent through Play Game. It's no different. At levels beyond casual play, that's when people start joining channels, and where popular channels emerge because the better players play there, and that applies to both games. | ||
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
On June 07 2007 10:06 Excalibur_Z wrote: That's not a balanced representation of the War3 community. What about sites like wcreplays which is devoted to high-level War3 play? It may not be TL.net but it's certainly better than GG.net. You're drawing comparisons between two completely different atmospheres, as well - the average SC player stays in whatever channel he autojoined (Brood War USA-4) and searches the Join Game list, whereas the average War3 player gets automatched with an opponent through Play Game. It's no different. At levels beyond casual play, that's when people start joining channels, and where popular channels emerge because the better players play there, and that applies to both games. yep, agreed. i compared more of a competitive layer of sc gamers, whereas fastest possible+lower ranks players are prolly just as in wc3 lower ranks are. warcraft3 has alot to work on, the match ups can be quite imbalanced, most of the time it kills creativity of players since you already know he'll tower rush cuz of close position or try something like that. btw since you know so much bout wc3, i'll go bit off topic. is there a way to fix your mouse so that it moves like an arrow in the game? to explain - when i move my G1(with latest drivers) the mouse doesn't follow my hand at same time, like it's running a bit late after my move, like it's drunk or running through the water, an effect like that. in sc with same setups my mouse is flying like a dart, sharp/precise moves, in wc3 it's like i said, not on the same speed i move my hand. i figured it's because the mouse is ingame, not the windows mouse(thing you can change in many games), but i failed to find a way to fix it  | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On June 07 2007 17:12 Dendra wrote: yep, agreed. i compared more of a competitive layer of sc gamers, whereas fastest possible+lower ranks players are prolly just as in wc3 lower ranks are. warcraft3 has alot to work on, the match ups can be quite imbalanced, most of the time it kills creativity of players since you already know he'll tower rush cuz of close position or try something like that. btw since you know so much bout wc3, i'll go bit off topic. is there a way to fix your mouse so that it moves like an arrow in the game? to explain - when i move my G1(with latest drivers) the mouse doesn't follow my hand at same time, like it's running a bit late after my move, like it's drunk or running through the water, an effect like that. in sc with same setups my mouse is flying like a dart, sharp/precise moves, in wc3 it's like i said, not on the same speed i move my hand. i figured it's because the mouse is ingame, not the windows mouse(thing you can change in many games), but i failed to find a way to fix it I really have no idea. I know what you're talking about, though. The War3 mouse cursor is more sluggish than the Starcraft one. I always attributed that to lag in the GUI. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 07 2007 07:52 Zironic wrote: There is probably some kind of natural law that states the bigger the community the more uncivilized it gets. There isn't anything about WC3 as such that makes the community hostile it's just the pure size of it. It's easy to behave badly when you don't expect to meet the person ever again. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Starcraft had the same issues when the community was larger and more active then it is now. Starcraft 2 is basically guaranteed to have issues like this and it is impossible for Blizzard to do much about it. One thing the could do is adding a report function so you can report people for being offensive and a moderator can go through the chat log and temp ban abusive people. Don't think AMM does any difference in either direction. Dunno what Dendra is talking about, there's toooonnes of bad manner in starcraft too, shit like that is everywhere where lots of people gather. Also, are there any really popular channels for war3? Maybe one of the reasons I never got into that game was that Bnet seemed completely empty -_-; | ||
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
on us.east you got plenty of those and on lowest levels of skill in euro, but the thing is if you play a ladder and a guy is bm you don't play him any more, in many cases when ppl are often bm the community "puts a mark" on him and everybody dislikes him and doesn't want to play cuz they know he is bm/will show around replays for months after he wins, etc., in wc3 automatch you play a game vs a guy once in a million years, he can be bm x times and nobody will care, it's like a meeting of anonymus players, when you know you see a guy for the 1st and prolly last time for a longer period of time then you don't watch your manners that much. on the other hand this explains why ppl have so many smurfs in sc like ambrosia and likes of him, if he used one nick i doubt skilled players would play him since he prolly has a compilation of replays against every bw player that ever touched bnet and yes, they are all bo7 with 4-0 victories for him. still I think automatch suports flaming much more since you dont have such a strong community, once you all look for games and play in one channel it makes people more connected and you can't do stunts like discing every game cuz people will report you and you get banned from ladder, also if you are bm and guy saves replay with text+more guys do that you'll have an admin on your back, that's the power of community, we don't have to tolerate, we can report to admins and gg. Also when we have problems with a game or something we can always ask the admins either on channel or the official ladder page - how many ppl visit the official wc3 ladder page? the page is dead compared to what PGT was for example. | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
Do you even realize that you are pulling shit out of your ass? I'm fine with the fact that you prefer the BW ladder (I would like to see both sides of this issue, really) but you make the most retarded arguments to support it. WC3 ladder is a disaster because I am forced to play BM opponents... right. And how the fuck would you tell if someone's really BM or not in BW if you're playing him for the first time? How far have you gotten up the WC3 ladder? Because I'm starting to think you stopped at lvl 7 and that's the experience your basing your anti-WC3 opinions on. Let's put aside for a second that your reasoning makes no sense. If, as you seem to have acknowledged, WC3 players smurf less, wouldn't that mean that they are LESS likely to be BM. WC3 ladder page is excellent. Do you have a problem with it? | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
>race? >race? >race or boot or: >from? >from? >from? <go >from? <go! >from? or people changing their race the very last moment hoping for an UI glitch that doesn't update it in time due to lag. WarCraft III system has it's flaws, but it's thankfully free from that bullshit. On June 09 2007 02:42 FrozenArbiter wrote: Dunno what Dendra is talking about, there's toooonnes of bad manner in starcraft too, shit like that is everywhere where lots of people gather. Also, are there any really popular channels for war3? Maybe one of the reasons I never got into that game was that Bnet seemed completely empty -_-; All the mature activity in War3 happens on clan channels. Public channels are indeed really shitty, but that's true for BW also. Just join a clan and you'll have plenty nice talk and friendly people. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5427 Posts
On June 09 2007 07:49 Heen wrote: What a load of bullshit. Dendra your dislike and ignorance of WC3 is so blatantly obvious it's really becoming painful to read your posts. Do you even realize that you are pulling shit out of your ass? I'm fine with the fact that you prefer the BW ladder (I would like to see both sides of this issue, really) but you make the most retarded arguments to support it. WC3 ladder is a disaster because I am forced to play BM opponents... right. And how the fuck would you tell if someone's really BM or not in BW if you're playing him for the first time? How far have you gotten up the WC3 ladder? Because I'm starting to think you stopped at lvl 7 and that's the experience your basing your anti-WC3 opinions on. Let's put aside for a second that your reasoning makes no sense. If, as you seem to have acknowledged, WC3 players smurf less, wouldn't that mean that they are LESS likely to be BM. WC3 ladder page is excellent. Do you have a problem with it? Indeed... I've played thousands of games on the AMM in War3 and never really dealt with the problems Dendra has faced. You just seem to want to rag on War3 at every opportunity you can, it's not helping your argument for why it shouldn't be in SC2 (and it will be). War3 has plenty of nice people and there are many many channels that people hang out in... It's just sometimes hard to find them again if you've been inactive. I think the best solution is to have an AMM, but you're also allowed to play one BO3 against an opponent once a week. AND/OR have that thumbs up/thumbs down rematch system. There'd be no limit on how many times you can play the same guy on ladder (even if you did one BO3 against him) I don't see how anyone could say this would be bad? | ||
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
On June 09 2007 07:49 Heen wrote: What a load of bullshit. Dendra your dislike and ignorance of WC3 is so blatantly obvious it's really becoming painful to read your posts. Do you even realize that you are pulling shit out of your ass? I'm fine with the fact that you prefer the BW ladder (I would like to see both sides of this issue, really) but you make the most retarded arguments to support it. WC3 ladder is a disaster because I am forced to play BM opponents... right. And how the fuck would you tell if someone's really BM or not in BW if you're playing him for the first time? How far have you gotten up the WC3 ladder? Because I'm starting to think you stopped at lvl 7 and that's the experience your basing your anti-WC3 opinions on. Let's put aside for a second that your reasoning makes no sense. If, as you seem to have acknowledged, WC3 players smurf less, wouldn't that mean that they are LESS likely to be BM. WC3 ladder page is excellent. Do you have a problem with it? errm, you can be 30+ on new ladder because a) the game is dead boring compared to sc, b) ladder rating system is f*** up. as for the smurfs=less bm thing, i explained already why ppl on wc3 are so bm - in sc ALL levels of players encounter each other often on ladder and honestly their bm is a bit more intelligent since i meet once every 10years a sc player who spams during game "haha, nobbo nooobooo", blablabla. errm...as for the wc3 ladder site - wow is nice, yet it's one retarded game, wc3 ladder site might be nice but you boys will never reach the community level of sc that pgt/wgt had. we have a freakin strong community compared to your wc3 which i'm pretty sure won't last long as sc since it's a noob-friendly, graphics whore and as such will be easily replaced by wc4/anything that looks nicer and is even more easy to play, and to add, it is already being replaced by dota which is even more "dumb-friendly style play" friendly, that's the majority of players wc3 has - half of them dont play sc cuz it's 2hard and they want to relax more when they play - oh and yes, this was a quote of ppl that actually play wc3 for long time so don't start saying it's a statement of some lvl7 noobs. | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
On June 09 2007 23:43 Heen wrote: You're fucking hopeless. well i don't see sc players switching to brainless iq 10 games like dota. | ||
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Xiven
United States16 Posts
If this were war3 I'd click "Find game" and I'd be playing already instead of posting on some forum while I watch the clock. I'll bet if Blizzard posted stats on win rates for Top VS Bottom games it would go at least 70% in Top's favor. | ||
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
On June 11 2007 01:04 Xiven wrote: Say all you want about how great it was in SC, but I'm sitting here trying to get a 3v3 going in SC and it takes forever to fill a game up. Or I join a game and its 3 guys that all are friends vs whatever random 3 people join (those always go great). If this were war3 I'd click "Find game" and I'd be playing already instead of posting on some forum while I watch the clock. I'll bet if Blizzard posted stats on win rates for Top VS Bottom games it would go at least 70% in Top's favor. well all my comments are related to the competitive layer of bw community, 3v3 on europe is very easy to find, on us.east and elsewhere i guess it's much harder. dota community(the ones that play in league, not those public noobs cuz they are really morons) is for example much stronger and more active than the wc3 one, | ||
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