EPTStarCraft II Multiplayer - Major Design Changes - Page 34
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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the_last_terran1
48 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 02 2017 03:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Pardo did not "deflect criticism". Pardo gave a giant 6 hour interview AFTER LEAVING Blizzard in 2014. He did not deflect criticism as it was happening. He was the original designer of SC2 and he factually explained how game mechanics were put into the game by him. Pardo was the lead designer of Brood War and SC2. compared to the other money Blizz makes on everything else RTS makes tiny amounts of cash. From 2010 to 2016, through a full game release and 2 expansions RTS represented ~1% of ATVI's revenue. Your comments about Pardo being lead designer of BW and SC2 are EXTREMELY misleading (I suspect you know this already...). Pardo was the lead of the BW EXPANSION, but NOT the lead designer who made the original StarCraft mechanics. BW was mostly just a campaign expansion, the mechanics were already integrated in to the game, and aside from that it just added a couple new units for each race. Biggest innovations being units and map design. He was NOT responsible for the mechanics of SC1 at all. Regarding your second paragraph.... again you are being misleading (likely intentionally regarding your tone of this post, and general tone you usually have on the forums). By those terms, EVERY SINGLE BLIZZARD GAME (minus Overwatch and WoW subs) generated ~1% revenue. Lets throw down some actual facts: SC2 series made Blizzard SUBSTANTIALLY MORE revenue than SC1 + BW. SC2 made more revenue than WC1-2-3 + expansions combined. SC2 made nearly as much as revenue D3 + expansions. SC2 made approximately double as much revenue that Diablo 2 earned them. SC2 made almost as much revenue as Hearthstone. SC2 made more than 4x as much revenue as Heroes of the Storm. The only two Blizzard titles that have performed better are Overwatch (which is around 1 bil revenue, approaching double SC2's) because of the Console release, and WoW subscriptions, because they have been adding up for over 10 years. For years you have kept spewing misleading information with claims that "RTS do not make money", when StarCraft is easily one of Blizzards top performing IP's ever. And yes, even if you only count SC2 & it's expansions. As time goes by, your credibility decreases. From your ridiculous claims that "No companies will fund an RTS anymore", meanwhile Blizzard has explicitly stated they would, and Age of Empires 4 is confirmed. It would be greatly appreciated if you stopped spreading misinformation & claims based on presumption rather than fact. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
SC2 made almost as much revenue as Hearthstone. SC2 made more than 4x as much revenue as Heroes of the Storm. Source? | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
http://www.statisticbrain.com/blizzard-entertainment-statistics/ | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On September 02 2017 06:46 Spyridon wrote: http://www.statisticbrain.com/blizzard-entertainment-statistics/ Date research was conducted: January 1, 2016 | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17974 Posts
On September 02 2017 06:34 Spyridon wrote: Your comments about Pardo being lead designer of BW and SC2 are EXTREMELY misleading (I suspect you know this already...). Pardo was the lead of the BW EXPANSION, but NOT the lead designer who made the original StarCraft mechanics. BW was mostly just a campaign expansion, the mechanics were already integrated in to the game, and aside from that it just added a couple new units for each race. Biggest innovations being units and map design. He was NOT responsible for the mechanics of SC1 at all. Regarding your second paragraph.... again you are being misleading (likely intentionally regarding your tone of this post, and general tone you usually have on the forums). By those terms, EVERY SINGLE BLIZZARD GAME (minus Overwatch and WoW subs) generated ~1% revenue. Lets throw down some actual facts: SC2 series made Blizzard SUBSTANTIALLY MORE revenue than SC1 + BW. SC2 made more revenue than WC1-2-3 + expansions combined. SC2 made nearly as much as revenue D3 + expansions. SC2 made approximately double as much revenue that Diablo 2 earned them. SC2 made almost as much revenue as Hearthstone. SC2 made more than 4x as much revenue as Heroes of the Storm. The only two Blizzard titles that have performed better are Overwatch (which is around 1 bil revenue, approaching double SC2's) because of the Console release, and WoW subscriptions, because they have been adding up for over 10 years. For years you have kept spewing misleading information with claims that "RTS do not make money", when StarCraft is easily one of Blizzards top performing IP's ever. And yes, even if you only count SC2 & it's expansions. As time goes by, your credibility decreases. From your ridiculous claims that "No companies will fund an RTS anymore", meanwhile Blizzard has explicitly stated they would, and Age of Empires 4 is confirmed. It would be greatly appreciated if you stopped spreading misinformation & claims based on presumption rather than fact. LOLs .. thanks for the laughs. SC2:WoL sold 6 million copies by 2013 with at least 1 million discounted.. prolly more than a million but i'll just say they were all $60 USD. HotS : 1 million. $40 USD LotV : 1 million. $40 USD. However, i'll say everything is full price... just cuz i'm being very very generous. 6 million X $60 = 0.36 billion...1 million X $40 = 0.04 billion ... 1 million X $40 = 0.04 billion. https://www.polygon.com/2012/11/7/3615054/starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-release-window-2013 So, SC2 generated 0.45 billion in revenue between 2010 and 2016. ATVI generates ~ 4.5 billion per year and rising. so over 7 years ATVI has generated 30 billion and SC2 has generated 0.45 Billion .... approximately 1%.. but let's be precise its 1.5% AoE4 will be a low budget affair made by a low budget studio that FUBAR-red DOW3. They did a nice job with CoH2 though... another low budget affair though. On September 02 2017 06:34 Spyridon wrote: Pardo was the lead of the BW EXPANSION, but NOT the lead designer who made the original StarCraft mechanics. BW was mostly just a campaign expansion, the mechanics were already integrated in to the game, and aside from that it just added a couple new units for each race. Biggest innovations being units and map design. He was NOT responsible for the mechanics of SC1 at all. context drop. i provided a rebuttal to a post stating that no one working on BW worked on SC2. Pardo worked on both. I'm glad you've contradicted the previous poster's incorrect claim so that i do not have to do so. | ||
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KrOjah
United Kingdom68 Posts
On September 02 2017 07:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: LOLs .. thanks for the laughs. SC2:WoL sold 6 million copies by 2013 with at least 1 million discounted.. prolly more than a million but i'll just say they were all $60 USD. HotS : 1 million. $40 USD LotV : 1 million. $40 USD. However, i'll say everything is full price... just cuz. 6 million X $60 = 0.36 billion 1 million X $40 = 0.04 billion 1 million X $40 = 0.04 billion. https://www.polygon.com/2012/11/7/3615054/starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-release-window-2013 So, SC2 generated 0.45 billion in revenue between 2010 and 2016. ATVI generates ~ 4.5 billion per year and rising. so over 7 years ATVI has generated 30 billion and SC2 has generated 0.45 Billion .... approximately 1%.. but let's be precise its 1.5% AoE4 will be a low budget affair made by a low budget studio that FUBAR-red DOW3. They did a nice job with CoH2 though... another low budget affair though. Yes and a low budget publisher. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17974 Posts
On September 02 2017 06:34 Spyridon wrote: SC2 made nearly as much as revenue D3 + expansions. SC2 made approximately double as much revenue that Diablo 2 earned them. comparing D2 revenue #s to a game made more than 10 years later ..... LOL. D3 has sold 30 million copies... .D3 has made BILLIONS.. SC2 made Millions. SC2 has not even hit 10 million copies sold yet despite being 2 years older than D3... last check it was at 8 million copies.. ATVI owns 8 billion dollar franchises... SC2 is small potatoes and its ~8 million units sold over 7 years is very small potatoes. my sources on al this are straight from ATVI and Blizzard. its hilarious you yap about credibility and i should stop promulgating BS when i have no clue where ur #s are coming from... did u just make them up and u r trolling? | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 02 2017 08:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: D3 has sold 30 million copies... .D3 has made BILLIONS.. SC2 made Millions. SC2 has not even hit 10 million copies sold yet despite being 2 years older than D3... last check it was at 8 million copies.. ATVI owns 8 billion dollar franchises... SC2 is small potatoes and its ~8 million units sold over 7 years is very small potatoes. Number of copies sold does not equal revenue. I'm sure you know this. You can't argue with solid numbers, so you use ony half the equation and make arguments based on amount of copies sold... rather than REVENUE. What was it that we were discussing? REVENUE! Not copies sold. That's what you been spewing for YEARS now (since at least Heart of the Swarm days). "Profitability" and "Revenue". You can take how many millions of copies were sold of the older game were sold, but how many of those were in battle chests for $20? Yet you are acting like people paid full price?? You are also not including the fact that SC2 had more releases than other games. Oh, and it's funny how you claim AoE4 is going to be low-budget.... Once again, more hearsay based on absolutely nothing factual. Then you go on by throwing some random numbers out there, trying to prove that the money the game makes is negligible compared to how much activision makes??? That's disregarding everything Blizzard has done as a company. And SC2 is one of the top 20 selling PC games ever, which has NOTHING TO DO with revenue (which actually has INCREASED in the time since the data I linked was taken, which has funded their continued coop development). For ANY game to make as much as ANY title Blizzard has released in the last 20 years, is a huge achievement. And SC as a series, as well as SC2, is at the top of those achievements. How much money Activision makes does not make those achievements any less impressive. And did you seriously say D3 has made billions....? Wow... Talk about talking out your ass. And you say your info is from Blizzard directly? How bout providing a source then, because I already shared mine, and there's other sources with a quick google to confirm what I said. Actually, I already know what you did without even having to look it up. Your presuming the "billion in revenue" based on Blizzards press release of revenue for the ENTIRE YEAR. Go ahead and show your source, to confirm what I just said, please. No matter how you slice it, SC2 was/is one of the most profitable game series ever. Everything you claim about RTS profitability is BS. Since you like to talk about "1%"... are you trying to say SC2 isn't in the top 1% of game releases for revenue....? Because it is. Anyway, you proved how unreliable your own comments are, by simply switching up from "revenue" to "copies sold". Thanks for proving that you know damn well that your original comments were BS, so you have to switch to something that might be more factual. Can't stand on the leg you have been trying to stand on for years, so let's find another leg to stand on, eh? At this point, I'm not going to bother responding unless you have any factual evidence. Because I'm not really down to be trolled by hearsay and presumptions, especially from someone whos presumptions have repeatedly proved themselves wrong over the years. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
There are two reasons for why entangle is crucial with the removal of fungals on air. The first and the more important one is mass oracles. Without fungles on the oracles the only way of fighting mass oracles is turtling on queens and spores (or if a spire can be hiddnen make a muta switch, but it doesn't last long as the protoss are on 3 stargates and can make 12 phoenix quickly). I suggest nerf the oracle to some extent. For example, make it slower, at least to the movement speed of the corruptor, so that spores and queens will have a chance of sniping oracles, and later corruptor will be able to chase them. With such a change massing oracles is no longer such a safe way to play. Late game ZvP was improved with the buff to the PB and the change to the infested terran (which should be reverted for the entagle to disappear), even though it will be hard taking a golden armada with these spells, it will help vs void rays in the mix which will turn it into a corruptors vs carriers and tempests (and infestors will help in their way of neuraling and infested terrans). The infested terrans added first helped a ton with the golden armada, so no need for entagle. Make the infested terrans as they were before this change, and nerf the oracle to some extent (lowering the movement speed as I suggested is one option).. For TvZ, I saw posts whining about the mule mineral nerf. I think the new mule will do a good job, from some point on terrans barely use mules unless some SCVs were killed, and the new mule will allow terrans switching to a late game composition quickly. The way I see it they tried forcing bio players to switch into late game compositions for the entirety of LOTV. Starting with splitting the marauder attack into 2 shoots, increasing the ultra armor, making the ghosts more appealing. etc. The problem bio players have today is that they are focused on killing the zerg before the late game and don't have an easy time transitioning into the late game. With the new mule switching to ghost production will be way easier even if the terran is only on 5 refineries. With the new eco there will still be minerals in the main by the time of the transition (on the high nodes) and the lack of gas will be compensated with gas muling. Ghosts, libs and ravens will be way easier to reach, and we'll see which one of those units contributes most to the terran late game. From the games I saw ranged libs with ghosts nullify the ultra compositions of zerg and force brood lords (which a zerg committed to ultras infestors and speed banes can't afford without taking a risk) or taking worse trades. Without entangle libs without range will be helpful enough, and with ghost support it will do the job. Getting there easier will make such games more of a common thing. I remember TY vs Nerchio from blizzcon, 3rd map, it was a nice one to watch. TY turtled there so it dragged for quite a while, but if either of the players can't close the game in the mid game (either bio tank push or hydra ling bane/muta ling bane) then I'm ok with such games as well (they won't be that common, but we don't see such games at all now). | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17974 Posts
battlechest makes fuck all guy.... this is getting ridiculous. ATVI counts its revenues in Billions not Millions. re ductio ad absurdum topic closed. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 02 2017 08:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ATVI made $0.45 Billion on SC2 while making $30 billion from 2010 to 2016. battlechest makes fuck all guy.... this is getting ridiculous. re ductio ad absurdum topic closed. Battlechest makes fuck all is exactly my point! YOU are the one talking about "higher number of sales". We were on the topic of revenue, YOU changed the topic to number of sales. I point out how number of sales don't mean shit because of battlechests, and now you are trolling that saying it means fuck all? I'm glad you agree with my point. Your argument about numbers of sales means "fuck all". As I said in my post, show this source? Because I guarantee you are taking Blizzards yearly revenue as a whole, and claiming it's revenue "on the game". | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17974 Posts
On September 02 2017 08:23 Spyridon wrote: As I said in my post, show this source? Because I guarantee you are taking Blizzards yearly revenue as a whole, and claiming it's revenue "on the game". ATVI annual revenue is ~$4.5 Billion and rising. SC2 franchise has not even hit 10 million units sold in its 7 years. D3 is over 30 million units sold. 8 million units total with 6 million at full price and 2 million at $40 is being pretty generous...... we know some of those units were sold at a discount. so we come to $0.44 Billion generated in 7 years. http://investor.activision.com/ since 2010, the Starcraft franchise accounts for 1.5% of ATVI Revenues.. and that percentage is falling fast. ya, AoE is such a great profit generating machine.. that they closed Ensemble. we're just lucky uncle Mike loves RTS games. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 02 2017 08:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ATVI annual revenue is ~$4.5 Billion and rising. SC2 franchise has not even hit 10 million units sold in its 7 years. D3 is over 30 million units sold. http://investor.activision.com/ since 2010, the Starcraft franchise accounts for 1.5% of ATVI Revenues.. and that percentage is falling fast. ya, AoE is such a great profit generating machine.. that they closed Ensemble. Exactly as I said. Taking their yearly revenue. Thanks, again, for proving my point, and showing that your arguments are not based on fact. Blizzard North is defunct nowadays as well. A studio or subsidiary closing says nothing about the quality of game nor revenue granted. Have fun switching topics and looking for another leg to stand on, with false presumptuous "facts". | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17974 Posts
On September 02 2017 08:28 Spyridon wrote: Exactly as I said. Taking their yearly revenue. Thanks, again, for proving my point, and showing that your arguments are not based on fact. revenue accrues over time. welcome to reality. you take all the money SC2 makes and divide it by all the money ATVI makes. On September 02 2017 08:23 Spyridon wrote: SC2 made nearly as much as revenue D3 + expansions. no clue how SC2 makes nearly as much as D3.. but hey man... enjoy your fantasy world. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 02 2017 08:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote: revenue accrues over time. welcome to reality. you take all the money SC2 makes and divide it by all the money ATVI makes. no clue how SC2 makes nearly as much as D3.. but hey man... enjoy your fantasy world. lol... I'm in a fantasy world? When I am basing my argument off actual research data, and yours is 100% presumption based on annual reports and disregarding which IP or where the revenue came from....? And can you really not figure out how SC2 makes as much? D3 - a game that plummeted harder than any Blizzard title in history after release, and had to take years of extended development & investment in order to become profitable? Which only had a single expansion, no established esports scene, and no long-term plan to generate income over the years? | ||
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KrOjah
United Kingdom68 Posts
On September 02 2017 08:17 Spyridon wrote: Number of copies sold does not equal revenue. I'm sure you know this. You can't argue with solid numbers, so you use ony half the equation and make arguments based on amount of copies sold... rather than REVENUE. What was it that we were discussing? REVENUE! Not copies sold. That's what you been spewing for YEARS now (since at least Heart of the Swarm days). "Profitability" and "Revenue". You can take how many millions of copies were sold of the older game were sold, but how many of those were in battle chests for $20? Yet you are acting like people paid full price?? You are also not including the fact that SC2 had more releases than other games. Oh, and it's funny how you claim AoE4 is going to be low-budget.... Once again, more hearsay based on absolutely nothing factual. Then you go on by throwing some random numbers out there, trying to prove that the money the game makes is negligible compared to how much activision makes??? That's disregarding everything Blizzard has done as a company. And SC2 is one of the top 20 selling PC games ever, which has NOTHING TO DO with revenue (which actually has INCREASED in the time since the data I linked was taken, which has funded their continued coop development). For ANY game to make as much as ANY title Blizzard has released in the last 20 years, is a huge achievement. And SC as a series, as well as SC2, is at the top of those achievements. How much money Activision makes does not make those achievements any less impressive. And did you seriously say D3 has made billions....? Wow... Talk about talking out your ass. And you say your info is from Blizzard directly? How bout providing a source then, because I already shared mine, and there's other sources with a quick google to confirm what I said. Actually, I already know what you did without even having to look it up. Your presuming the "billion in revenue" based on Blizzards press release of revenue for the ENTIRE YEAR. Go ahead and show your source, to confirm what I just said, please. No matter how you slice it, SC2 was/is one of the most profitable game series ever. Everything you claim about RTS profitability is BS. Since you like to talk about "1%"... are you trying to say SC2 isn't in the top 1% of game releases for revenue....? Because it is. Anyway, you proved how unreliable your own comments are, by simply switching up from "revenue" to "copies sold". Thanks for proving that you know damn well that your original comments were BS, so you have to switch to something that might be more factual. Can't stand on the leg you have been trying to stand on for years, so let's find another leg to stand on, eh? At this point, I'm not going to bother responding unless you have any factual evidence. Because I'm not really down to be trolled by hearsay and presumptions, especially from someone whos presumptions have repeatedly proved themselves wrong over the years. Seriously doubt AoE4 is going to be small budget. Microsoft have a few spare coins to throw at devs. Kind of helps that Bill Gates himself is a fan of the series. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1927 Posts
i also support the cyclone damage increase vs air, i think it's good to defend oracles. without it, u can just ignore the thing in the current live patch... it's better imo so terrans dont just insta like 10 workers even while having an AA unit. | ||
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