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Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter.
From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world.
From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank)
Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho
Zerg: soO, Dark
Protoss: Stats, herO
and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players...
And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players.
But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players.
And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
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On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
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On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote:
Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
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On June 22 2017 13:37 TheHumanLife wrote:Show nested quote +Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter. From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world. From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank) Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho Zerg: soO, Dark Protoss: Stats, herO and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players... And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players. But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players. And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
Well said brother!
Go Neeb! Make a deep run in GSL S3! show us what you got!
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On June 22 2017 13:37 TheHumanLife wrote:Show nested quote +Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter. From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world. From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank) Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho Zerg: soO, Dark Protoss: Stats, herO and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players... And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players. But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players. And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
And then the foreigners we overhyped get crushed and Elazer makes top 4.
StarCraft is a tricky game.
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On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
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On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
Stephano nearly revere-all-killed team Korea once and was widely regarded as the best foreigner and Naniwa made the Ro8 in a Code S. I think if Neeb can make Ro8 or higher next season then I think he has surpassed Naniwa. Maybe if he can perform well at Blizzcon aswell then he'd be the best.
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Nani was in that form once in his career then he probe rushed and fell off the face of the planet. Neeb is heaps ahead of that basket-case. Nani was never even close to a position to winning a Korean tourny even when he did get that far you knew it wouldn't last.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
It's a tough argument to make since their achievements came at different times against vastly different opposition. Neeb's KeSPA Cup win was in Korea, but Stephano regularly best the very best Koreans at multiple tournaments - something that Neeb didn't do at KeSPA Cup and doesn't really have a chance to in most tournaments. Whenever he did play them (at BlizzCon and IEM), he got 3-0d. NaNiwa's 8s had him beating very strong players too, and he kept that level for a long time. It depends entirely on what you value most I think - Neeb winning a Korean tournament or Stephano and NaNiwa competing with the best Koreans over longer stretches of time.
I've still got Stephano as #1 personally since I'd also include factors like him revolutionizing how Zerg played in WoL entirely.
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Russian Federation193 Posts
Well, the games were good, but still a lot of mistakes from both players.
Still a looooong distance between them and the Koreans.
And people who wish good luck to Neeb in GSL ))) Good luck, Neeb! You'll need a LOT of luck!
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On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
I still have Naniwa ahead of Neeb for now because of longevity. Neeb's 'reign' has only been for about a year while Naniwa was an elite player for over 2.
In the case of Stephano, it has more to do with a gut feeling than anything else. When Stephano was at his best, he crushed his opponents in a way that neither Neeb nor any other foreigner ever did.
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On June 22 2017 14:53 Colouss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him? Stephano nearly revere-all-killed team Korea once and was widely regarded as the best foreigner and Naniwa made the Ro8 in a Code S. I think if Neeb can make Ro8 or higher next season then I think he has surpassed Naniwa. Maybe if he can perform well at Blizzcon aswell then he'd be the best.
I think out of all of Stephano's achievements you picked the most useless one out. :p
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On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
A tournament where Trap was in finals
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On June 22 2017 18:57 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him? A tournament where Trap was in finals
By beating TY and Solar.
But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
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On June 22 2017 19:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 18:57 DieuCure wrote:On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him? A tournament where Trap was in finals By beating TY and Solar. But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm?
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On June 22 2017 19:16 RealReality86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 19:06 Charoisaur wrote:On June 22 2017 18:57 DieuCure wrote:On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him? A tournament where Trap was in finals By beating TY and Solar. But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say. A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm?
Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process.
I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On June 22 2017 19:30 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 19:16 RealReality86 wrote:On June 22 2017 19:06 Charoisaur wrote:On June 22 2017 18:57 DieuCure wrote:On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him? A tournament where Trap was in finals By beating TY and Solar. But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say. A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm? Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process. I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
Jinro made two GSL semis. That's hugely underrated in terms of foreigner achievements.
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On June 22 2017 19:30 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 19:16 RealReality86 wrote:On June 22 2017 19:06 Charoisaur wrote:On June 22 2017 18:57 DieuCure wrote:On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote:
where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him? A tournament where Trap was in finals By beating TY and Solar. But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say. A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm? Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process. I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
I don't think too many rate Neeb's WCS very highly. But by winning them he got rid of Scarlett/Snute/Major's "yeah they can beat Koreans but also lose to foreigners" thing.
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Neeb is very good but he is not Stephano level.
Stephano could show up at a tourney with a hangover and without a keyboard and stil beat up every player there.
He is basically the most talanted SC2 player ever. If he had practiced as hard as the top Koreans and had acess the the same high-level training environment as they did he would have been the best SC2 player in history. As it is he still the best foreigner ever.
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EPT
