The hype was real in Sweden this weekend, as the two most anticipated players cleared a bloody path through all others to reach the grand finals.
Having qualified for the tournament, both Neeb and Serral started out in the third stage. They were thus able to bypass the most grueling phase, DreamHack’s famous open group stages. Unfortunately not all 64 slots were filled, leading to some strange groups with only two players in which both were guaranteed to advance. As usual, the brawl took its toll, with fan-favorite Harstem unable to advance past the second group stage on Saturday.
Sunday’s third group stage likewise had a few surprises in store for the viewers. Casualties included names like ShoWTimE, TRUE, iaguz, TooDming and iAsonu. With only 16 players remaining, the playoffs began in earnest on Monday.
As fates would have it, both eventual finalists fought like they were possessed. Serral took down Stephano, PtitDrogo and Elazer on his way to the grand finals, only dropping a single map along the way. Neeb cleaved through SortOf, MajOr and Kelazhur. Fittingly only the Mexican Terran proved to be difficult, as the two had met in the semifinals in Austin with the same scoreline.
The finals went down to the wire, with Neeb eventually overcoming Serral in a deciding game seven. The two played some of the best games of the entire tournament, showcasing their skills to the full. With another WCS title under his belt, Neeb secured himself the elusive Triple Crown, and Serral will have to now bide his time until Valencia.
For those looking to relive the action of the weekend, a few series stood out above the others. PtitDrogo looked to be in top form, taking down Nerchio 3-0. uThermal’s entire run through the group stages proved that he’s veritably among the top EU Terrans at the moment. Snute’s heartbreaking loss at the hands of Cham was made that much more bittersweet with Cham’s 0-3 loss against Elazer. And finally, MajOr didn’t quite make it this time around, but it’s more than likely this won’t be the last we see of him.
I watched that live. It's awesome to watch both tournaments where Neeb made foreigner history. Neeb! It's ok man, you're allowed to say you're good at StarCraft now.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Better question is where he ranks among current Koreans? Personally I would guesstimate him somewhere in Tier 2.
I think that's fair. He could probably get Ro16 GSL with a decent group. Major put up an ok fight but had ByuN and herO. There were a couple of groups he might have been able to get out of if you swapped him with another 3rd place finisher. I could see the same for neeb. Would probably need a favorable group or some luck to make the knockout rounds but not impossible
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Better question is where he ranks among current Koreans? Personally I would guesstimate him somewhere in Tier 2.
I think that's fair. He could probably get Ro16 GSL with a decent group. Major put up an ok fight but had ByuN and herO. There were a couple of groups he might have been able to get out of if you swapped him with another 3rd place finisher. I could see the same for neeb. Would probably need a favorable group or some luck to make the knockout rounds but not impossible
Yeah, Scarlett/MajOr would need a decent amount of luck to make it to the Ro16, like Trap/Losira for instance. Neeb is better than either Scarlett or MajOr of course, but not by a huge amount. Tier 1 is "gated" by aLive/Gumiho since they are the highest second-tiers imo, and I just can't see Neeb beating either of them.
At this point I don't think Gumiho is the tier 1 gate keeper anymore. Maybe he'll fall back down, but he's beaten most of the best on his run. If he takes out soO, then he certainly isn't
On June 22 2017 09:52 Parrek wrote: At this point I don't think Gumiho is the tier 1 gate keeper anymore. Maybe he'll fall back down, but he's beaten most of the best on his run. If he takes out soO, then he certainly isn't
If he beats soO, and doesn't slump, then he will be Tier 1 in my eyes. But I have a pretty narrow definition of Tier 1, by which I mean only Stats, TY, and INnoVaton.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
That's really hard to say, since Neeb and Serral have played against Koreans lately. Someone needs to set up a showmatch or something, or at least film Neeb's GSL qualifiers
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
That's really hard to say, since Neeb and Serral have played against Koreans lately. Someone needs to set up a showmatch or something, or at least film Neeb's GSL qualifiers
Definitely not tier 1, but a high rank in tier 2. I could see him getting ro16 with a bit of bracket luck.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
That's really hard to say, since Neeb and Serral have played against Koreans lately. Someone needs to set up a showmatch or something, or at least film Neeb's GSL qualifiers
Definitely not tier 1, but a high rank in tier 2. I could see him getting ro16 with a bit of bracket luck.
It all depends on how you define Tier 1, Tier 2, etc. My definition of Tier 1 is "Players with form good enough to win a Korean tournament and who have recently won one to prove it."
By that definition, only Stats, TY, and INnoVation are Tier 1. Possibly herO as well, though Adept/Phoenix has been nerfed since he won the Super Tournament. It should be blatantly obvious that Neeb is not at this level. Gumiho does not belong here either, because while he possibly has the form (we will find out soon enough) he hasn't won anything yet. Same for soO.
And as far as Neeb/Serral being top 10 world....that's quite a stretch imo. GSL Season 3 and GSL vs the World are both coming up fast, so I guess we will find out soon enough.
Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter. From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world.
From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank)
Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho
Zerg: soO, Dark
Protoss: Stats, herO
and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players...
And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players. But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players.
And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter. From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world.
From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank)
Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho
Zerg: soO, Dark
Protoss: Stats, herO
and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players...
And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players. But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players.
And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
Well said brother!
Go Neeb! Make a deep run in GSL S3! show us what you got!
Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter. From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world.
From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank)
Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho
Zerg: soO, Dark
Protoss: Stats, herO
and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players...
And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players. But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players.
And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
And then the foreigners we overhyped get crushed and Elazer makes top 4.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
Stephano nearly revere-all-killed team Korea once and was widely regarded as the best foreigner and Naniwa made the Ro8 in a Code S. I think if Neeb can make Ro8 or higher next season then I think he has surpassed Naniwa. Maybe if he can perform well at Blizzcon aswell then he'd be the best.
Nani was in that form once in his career then he probe rushed and fell off the face of the planet. Neeb is heaps ahead of that basket-case. Nani was never even close to a position to winning a Korean tourny even when he did get that far you knew it wouldn't last.
It's a tough argument to make since their achievements came at different times against vastly different opposition. Neeb's KeSPA Cup win was in Korea, but Stephano regularly best the very best Koreans at multiple tournaments - something that Neeb didn't do at KeSPA Cup and doesn't really have a chance to in most tournaments. Whenever he did play them (at BlizzCon and IEM), he got 3-0d. NaNiwa's 8s had him beating very strong players too, and he kept that level for a long time. It depends entirely on what you value most I think - Neeb winning a Korean tournament or Stephano and NaNiwa competing with the best Koreans over longer stretches of time.
I've still got Stephano as #1 personally since I'd also include factors like him revolutionizing how Zerg played in WoL entirely.
Well, the games were good, but still a lot of mistakes from both players. Still a looooong distance between them and the Koreans. And people who wish good luck to Neeb in GSL ))) Good luck, Neeb! You'll need a LOT of luck!
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
I still have Naniwa ahead of Neeb for now because of longevity. Neeb's 'reign' has only been for about a year while Naniwa was an elite player for over 2.
In the case of Stephano, it has more to do with a gut feeling than anything else. When Stephano was at his best, he crushed his opponents in a way that neither Neeb nor any other foreigner ever did.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
Stephano nearly revere-all-killed team Korea once and was widely regarded as the best foreigner and Naniwa made the Ro8 in a Code S. I think if Neeb can make Ro8 or higher next season then I think he has surpassed Naniwa. Maybe if he can perform well at Blizzcon aswell then he'd be the best.
I think out of all of Stephano's achievements you picked the most useless one out. :p
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
A tournament where Trap was in finals
By beating TY and Solar.
But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
A tournament where Trap was in finals
By beating TY and Solar.
But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm?
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
A tournament where Trap was in finals
By beating TY and Solar.
But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm?
Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process. I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
A tournament where Trap was in finals
By beating TY and Solar.
But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm?
Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process. I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
Jinro made two GSL semis. That's hugely underrated in terms of foreigner achievements.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
A tournament where Trap was in finals
By beating TY and Solar.
But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm?
Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process. I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
I don't think too many rate Neeb's WCS very highly. But by winning them he got rid of Scarlett/Snute/Major's "yeah they can beat Koreans but also lose to foreigners" thing.
Stephano could show up at a tourney with a hangover and without a keyboard and stil beat up every player there.
He is basically the most talanted SC2 player ever. If he had practiced as hard as the top Koreans and had acess the the same high-level training environment as they did he would have been the best SC2 player in history. As it is he still the best foreigner ever.
Now that just isn't true. TaeJa or Life are the most naturally talented players, and Taeja never stayed in a teamhouse after Slayers and legitimately didn't practice for months while beating up everyone. I know for a fact that Stephano's "never practiced" thing is largely not true, while it is for Taeja and similarly for Life who wrecked everyone while studying at the same time.
There's an interview with Coach Park about Taeja in which he wonders how Taeja did what he did, saying he'd never seen a player like him who didn't practice, didn't stay in a teamhouse and still played the way he did.
Besides the idea that ir Stephano had practiced more he'd be the best ever applies to a LOT of players. If Mvp had functioning wrists he may have won 4 more GSLs. It wasn't the case, so why bother arguing about it?
Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter. From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world.
From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank)
Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho
Zerg: soO, Dark
Protoss: Stats, herO
and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players...
And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players. But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players.
And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
" and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter." Neeb winning Kespa Cup doesnt prove nothing?? Only foreigner to win the Triple Crown.... And that says a lot, since Neeb has competed in very few Korean champs...
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
Have you seen IEM Katowice ?
Neeb was on a slump back then... His current skill level is much higher
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
Have you seen IEM Katowice ?
Neeb was on a slump back then... His current skill level is much higher
And Serral also improving after getting out of high school.
" and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter." Neeb winning Kespa Cup doesnt prove nothing?? Only foreigner to win the Triple Crown.... And that says a lot, since Neeb has competed in very few Korean champs...
To be honest, from what I heard, the most of Korean pros interviewed that they did not practice much or at all before the Kespa Cup, since they were very exhausting of mad schedule in 2016, herO said he didn't practice for a while, and Solar said he just wanted to enjoy the Kespa cup and have some rest for the last part of the year or preparing blizzcon. And do you know how many Korean players are there who have won a single tournament in Korea? There are plenty of them.
And also, winning two foreigner events does not make someone to top 10 in the world. Even, Code S mediocre player TRUE at that time, had One Crown in WCS. Right now, TRUE even failed to qualify in GSL code S s1 this year. (eliminated by KeeN). And he is currently in slump. Neeb is going for GSL s3 qualifier soon, so we are about to find out.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
and how do you determine the world top 10 skill level without result? unless you have almost same skill level as pro to have foresight about someone's skill level. GSL is pretty tough, even top 5 players can fall in Ro32 I know. But from 2017, no foreigners have shown impressive result against Koreans (even Neeb and Serral) Neeb was in slump in early 2017, but that is the fact so far. And honestly, there is no true top 10 in sc2 btw, since there are too many top level players right now and it is meaningless to say who is top 10 or not in sc2. But I don't see that there are less than 10 Korean players who has same skill or better than Neeb and Serral currently.
" and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter." Neeb winning Kespa Cup doesnt prove nothing?? Only foreigner to win the Triple Crown.... And that says a lot, since Neeb has competed in very few Korean champs...
To be honest, from what I heard, the most of Korean pros interviewed that they did not practice much or at all before the Kespa Cup, since they were very exhausting of mad schedule in 2016, herO said he didn't practice for a while, and Solar said he just wanted to enjoy the Kespa cup and have some rest for the last part of the year or preparing blizzcon. And do you know how many Korean players are there who have won a single tournament in Korea? There are plenty of them.
I'm not sure I believe that.
Winning the Kespa Cup would have earned herO ~$28,000 ($18,100 for the Kespa cup and $10,000 for making the Global Playoffs.
Solar had the Cross Finals on September 25th then turned around and played the Kespa cup on the 29th. He couldn't practice for 4 more days? He had basically only had to practice against Protoss.
Both Classic and Patience were playing for a spot at the Global Playoffs and a minimum of $10,000 though I guess Patience technically secured that when he got out of his group and Classic didn't, so his motivation could have flagged at that point.
TY had already punched his ticket to the Global Playoffs but he didn't want to get that failing to win tournaments monkey off his back?
Stats had finally won a tournament when he won the first cross finals earlier that year, but I'm sure he would have liked to win something a little more prestigious than a 2-round invitational.
Maybe all those players didn't take it seriously despite having something to play for. It is possible. They are young and young people do dumb things. But the "I didn't practice very hard" card feels like an attempt to discredit Neeb's performance.
Winning the Kespa Cup would have earned herO ~$28,000 ($18,100 for the Kespa cup and $10,000 for making the Global Playoffs.
Solar had the Cross Finals on September 25th then turned around and played the Kespa cup on the 29th. He couldn't practice for 4 more days? He had basically only had to practice against Protoss.
Both Classic and Patience were playing for a spot at the Global Playoffs and a minimum of $10,000 though I guess Patience technically secured that when he got out of his group and Classic didn't, so his motivation could have flagged at that point.
TY had already punched his ticket to the Global Playoffs but he didn't want to get that failing to win tournaments monkey off his back?
Stats had finally won a tournament when he won the first cross finals earlier that year, but I'm sure he would have liked to win something a little more prestigious than a 2-round invitational.
Maybe all those players didn't take it seriously despite having something to play for. It is possible. They are young and young people do dumb things. But the "I didn't practice very hard" card feels like an attempt to discredit Neeb's performance.
I am not trying to discredit Neeb's performance here. herO and Solar already said that through interview right before group stage starts. It has nothing to do with Neeb's performances. Korean players had very tiring schedules in 2016, and many of them wanted some rest, go to vacation and practice lesser in Kespa Cup than any SSL, GSL tournaments and team proleague (SPL). But, I am sure Classic and Patience tried hard in Kespa cup for blizzcon seed, but through what I read in Korean community at that time I heard many players are having rest and going vacation even right before Kespa cup starts. I am just saying truth.
On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now?
Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett.
I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him?
A tournament where Trap was in finals
By beating TY and Solar.
But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say.
A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm?
Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process. I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
Lol he won when the skill level was a joke and even when he did win he beat sub par koreans at best (Alicia Lucky) and lost to any who could play at the time (MVP Squirtle). Once that scrub roach max was gone he faded into oblivion. Actually when he lost to MVP MVP was pretty terrible and that was his last premier.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol this is why the region locking is so stupid. you are blowing things way out of perspective because there isn't a korean to stomp foreign hopes back to reality. neeb is legit as he did win a korean tourney in the past, but he is not that good. him winning a non korean region locked tourney is good, but it doesn't put him in the top 10. competing in the gsl and advancing to the finals puts you in the top 10.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
Have you seen IEM Katowice ?
Neeb was on a slump back then... His current skill level is much higher
Ye maybe he can barely wins against Jjakji now, which is ro32 player.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol this is why the region locking is so stupid. you are blowing things way out of perspective because there isn't a korean to stomp foreign hopes back to reality. neeb is legit as he did win a korean tourney in the past, but he is not that good. him winning a non korean region locked tourney is good, but it doesn't put him in the top 10. competing in the gsl and advancing to the finals puts you in the top 10.
I'm sorry but there's no way to justify Neeb and Serral being top 10. Compare them to the foreigners that compete in Korea. Remeber Scarlett and Major both failed to get past GSL ro32.
Neeb trades maps evenly with Major (every series they've played this year has gone to final map), and tends to lose to Scarlett (he's 7-12 against her in 2017).
Serral has only played Scarlett and Major once this year so it's hard to compare. But he beat Scarlett 2-0 which is good, however Major was running circles around him on every map in their series.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
You can't compare skill level based of an isolated tournament like that. Any two players that are evenly matched can show games that are interesting and appear "high level". For example, if there were no Koreans at Katowice we could have ended up with a Serral-Neeb finals back then, and everyone would have been saying they're top 10 because of it.
On June 23 2017 21:20 Fango wrote: I'm sorry but there's no way to justify Neeb and Serral being top 10. Compare them to the foreigners that compete in Korea. Remeber Scarlett and Major both failed to get past GSL ro32.
Neeb trades maps evenly with Major (every series they've played this year has gone to final map), and tends to lose to Scarlett (he's 7-12 against her in 2017).
Serral has only played Scarlett and Major once this year so it's hard to compare. But he beat Scarlett 2-0 which is good, however Major was running circles around him on every map in their series.
On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
You can't compare skill level based of an isolated tournament like that. Any two players that are evenly matched can show games that are interesting and appear "high level". For example, if there were no Koreans at Katowice we could have ended up with a Serral-Neeb finals back then, and everyone would have been saying they're top 10 because of it.
Yeah, basically this exactly. WCS Circuit tourneys lack the frame of reference for anyone to make sweeping assertions like "Serral and Neeb are now top 10 no doubt." Even if a statement like that were true (pretty damn unlikely, btw) Jonkoping is a shitty way to justify it, because there weren't any top Koreans there.
If (and only if) Neeb beats TY/INnoVation in a Bo5 (instead of MajOr) or Dark/soO in a Bo7 (instead of Serral) then we can start talking about how he is equal to top-tier Koreans.
EPT
Neeb and Serral started out in the third stage. They were thus able to bypass the most grueling phase, DreamHack’s famous open group stages. Unfortunately not all 64 slots were filled, leading to some strange groups with only two players in which both were guaranteed to advance. As usual, the brawl took its toll, with fan-favorite 
TRUE, 
iaguz, 
