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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
I play all three races (depending on how I feel at any given day) and when I play as P, I literally only make adepts + something for AA, most people at my level just kinda die to it anyway because neither of us can micro properly or defend multiple locations correctly... Adepts got me into Plat when I can't even reach Silver with Z and am struggling to climb out of Gold with T... Protoss was my weakest race in HotS... | ||
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
Adepts haven't been in the game very long and the game has changed since LotV's launch, obviously, players are still learning how to use them, abuse them, and how to play against them. A lot of people back in WoL felt the same way towards Roaches, Hydras, Bunkers, Sentries, and even Lings, Zealots, and Marines as people do towards Adepts now, but we've had since 2010 to learn how to deal with those, they still aren't entirely figured out, so it makes sense that a unit like the Adept would be so debated/hated. I say give it some time, maybe just sit back and cheese out the dirty Protos a little more often if you really can't handle them, but keep thinking about it and how to play against them and hope for some sweet TvP (and to a lesser extent ZvP) games in the next week or so that vividly showcase how to destroy them. I think that's going to happen soon, and then a little bit of that will eventually trickle down into lower leagues as well. If Adepts are still seen incredibly often in two weeks I would really like to test out how big of a difference a slight weapon damage point or attack animation time increase would make for Bronze-Diamond players compared to Masters-GM players controlling them. Again, idk that an update/nerf needs to happen for high-level or lower-level Protoss yet, nobody really seems to be trying anything against it and just jumping aboard the hate train. But if it does, I'd like it to be something very small that might make using them a little more difficult or less effective for lower/average-skill players but not change much for pros and certainly something that doesn't make the Adept into a different unit (by removing Psionic Transfer or drastically changing Shade behavior). If people are still talking/complaining about it in the same way in a week (outside of the people who complain about everything every week) I'd be honestly surprised. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On April 12 2017 02:48 icesergio wrote: The hypocrisy of the people contributing to this thread, in primis the OP himself is absolutely mind baffling. I'm going to quote The Joker and say "Terran wins a major and nobody bats an eye, Protoss wins a major tournament and everybody loses their minds" Trying to win an arguement as a Protoss player, like MCanning said, is near impossible, trying to talk sense to you is also impossibile, because understanding that every race has their gimmicks and accepting that is just too much for your ant dimensioned brains, so here I propose another arguement: Win rates are MOSTLY balanced, and when I say MOSTLY I don't mean Protoss favoured, I mean Terran or Zerg favoured. http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&l=-2 Feast upon your eyes! I love how you try to mask your whining with phrases like "It's boring to watch" or "It is a bad design gameplay wise" It's a good thing we have all you Real Time Strategy gurus, seriously, I wouldn't know what to do without you! /s Every race has a frustrating gimmicky unit that serves no purpose other than to keep win rates in the 50-50 zone, Terran has Stimmed Marauders that FYI deal more DPS than Immortals when stimmed vs Armored targets (which makes complete sense doesn't it?) Widow mine drops are probably the most frustrating thing to deal with as Protoss, the fact that Immortals completely melt against the new siege tank... Ravagers that can kite almost every Protoss ground unit even off creep and have no PROPER counter due to the lack of either a light or armored tag. (Archons, thanks to the +bio damage) are the ONLY unit that Protoss has that deals additional damage directly, but thanks to their 3 range they can be kited by Ravagers all day. Forget catching Ravagers without Disruptors and/or Chargelots. So just SUCK it up, accept that Protoss is part of the game and as such can also WIN tournaments and, just like any of you would say to one of us the moment we even tried to propose a nerf to one of your much loved units "Git Gud" Dude, I applaud you so much right now. ByuN 3-rax-reaper his way to victories (BlizzCon and GSL) and no one said a damn thing. Protoss won GSL and Super Tournament and giant explosion of "Adept is OP" following. People think adepts and phoenixes are like piece of cake. Spamming them and win. Yah right. If Terran turtle up and bunkers, WMs and tanks, they should be fine. By the time, they get enough Marauders and WMs, they will bully the Protoss big time. No one seems to whine about that. Many Terrans like to push prematurely vs Adepts/Phoenixes (like 2 Medivacs + 16 marines with no stim), lose and then whine adepts are OP. herO won ST because his adepts/phoenixes style is second to none. He always drags his phoenixes to draw the WMs friend-fire shots to Medivacs and Marines. That is how he won AKA his control! Without that control, he would be run over by MMM combo. No one seems to notice that. I do agree we should nerf the cool-down of Adepts a bit to make the shading part is a bit more tricky but that should be all. I'm playing Zerg and get bullied with adepts pressure all the time but I still think nerfing adepts too much is simply a WRONG move. Maybe, reducing the pick-up range of Warm Prism is a welcome change for Zerg  . | ||
Poopi
France12885 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:31 Vutalisk wrote: Dude, I applaud you so much right now. ByuN 3-rax-reaper his way to victories (BlizzCon and GSL) and no one said a damn thing. Protoss won GSL and Super Tournament and giant explosion of "Adept is OP" following. People think adepts and phoenixes are like piece of cake. Spamming them and win. Yah right. If Terran turtle up and bunkers, WMs and tanks, they should be fine. By the time, they get enough Marauders and WMs, they will bully the Protoss big time. No one seems to whine about that. Many Terrans like to push prematurely vs Adepts/Phoenixes (like 2 Medivacs + 16 marines with no stim), lose and then whine adepts are OP. herO won ST because his adepts/phoenixes style is second to none. He always drags his phoenixes to draw the WMs friend-fire shots to Medivacs and Marines. That is how he won AKA his control! Without that control, he would be run over by MMM combo. No one seems to notice that. I do agree we should nerf the cool-down of Adepts a bit to make the shading part is a bit more tricky but that should be all. I'm playing Zerg and get bullied with adepts pressure all the time but I still think nerfing adepts too much is simply a WRONG move. Maybe, reducing the pick-up range of Warm Prism is a welcome change for Zerg .ByuN 3raxed his way to victory? Yeah sure he didn't at all play all 3 matchups and he was just a 3rax cheeser, what did I just read. Meanwhile herO beat Gumiho TY and aLive and a lone zerg, ByuL, on his way to victory. herO won because he had the right bracket at the right time (mine nerf), with good preparation for ByuL. | ||
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:23 Sakat wrote: I will not pretend I'm any sort of expert on anything, just share my experience playing... I play all three races (depending on how I feel at any given day) and when I play as P, I literally only make adepts + something for AA, most people at my level just kinda die to it anyway because neither of us can micro properly or defend multiple locations correctly... Adepts got me into Plat when I can't even reach Silver with Z and am struggling to climb out of Gold with T... Protoss was my weakest race in HotS... Just because Protoss was your least-winning race in HotS and your most-winning race in LotV doesn't mean that Protoss is stronger than Terran or Zerg. It could be that you're just better at playing P altogether, or have learned and gotten better as a P player since HotS more than you have with Z or T, and it's very possible that your T and Z builds or playstyles are bad and have nothing to do with balance whatsoever. You really have to look at your playstyle, how well you understand and play each race, and examine the games themselves, and then you have to compare that to information from several other people from various ranks and compare that to information from other people in various ranks who play differently from the first group of people... That'd be the analytical thing to do if you really want to draw the conclusions you seem to want to draw. On their own it doesn't really mean a whole lot. However, if you're using strong/meta builds all around and you feel that you have the same skill level with all of the races then I'd love to see some games and look at them myself out of curiosity. On April 13 2017 00:22 The_Red_Viper wrote: He gave you "one rule" : defenders advantage Units appear where the production is built and thus (usually) have to move to the battle on the other side of the map which gives the opponent 1. defenders advantage since his production is closer to the battle than yours 2. defenders advantage because he can scout for reinforcements and maybe interfere Warpgate is a problem in that regard, as is the current nydus worm as well Also warpgates themselves allow for such strong timings because as soon as the production facility is built you can instantly get value out of it without waiting for one cycle. I mean this was said over and over again in the past years but warpgates are a bad game mechanic, at least as a core production mechanic. It might work as a lategame upgrade of some sorts. Firstly, people always talk about this as if Warp Prisms give all of that for free with a 100% guarantee, but they cost resources (minerals, gas, and time) in addition to Gateways and Pylons to function, just like how a Nydus costs resources in addition to Larvae and Overlords, and you are never guaranteed to get value from either of these. On the contrary, these are usually used on the fly or in timing attacks which are made to happen by cutting corners and taking risks. Secondly, if the Protoss player loses their Warp Gate then the strategy of warping in units on your opponent's side of the battlefield is impossible, just like how destroying a Nydus makes it impossible for Zerg to endlessly swarm into your base, which makes people think about whether or not using them would be worthwhile. Warp Prisms are more central to the Protoss playstyle than Nydus, sure, but Protoss also doesn't have Creep or Medivacs that allow their units to zip around the map willy nilly so it balances them out against Z and T. Thirdly, on your side of the map it's much easier to shut down both of these because of the defender's advantage which, despite what people say, still exists when Warp Prisms and Nydus are used. The majority of the time they are active they are on the opponents side of the map, not your own, which weakens your own base defenses as well. The defender's advantage is actually made more interesting and complex when these exist, which is a good thing for an RTS, not a bad thing. -- Now, some thoughts I have on the idea that units you don't like should be removed from the game in some capacity. This goes for Warp Gate/Prisms, Adepts/Shades, and any unit, mechanic, or playstyle in a strategy game, but for the purposes of this discussion I won't talk about strategies that are removed because they actually break the game or ruin other players gaming experiences entirely (such as Turtling, increasing RNG, or Blue Control in Magic: the Gathering). Eliminating interactions without providing new ones is bad game design, especially when you eliminate something without providing a solid reason for it. If you take something away with a solid reason, you also better provide something new to replace it with. Look at Magic: the Gathering for example (or Hearthstone, YuGiOh, Pokémon). They take away cards and strategies from Standard play (you can think of it like Ladder Seasons) very often. However, every time they remove cards they give players new ones with similar or entirely new potential strategies. When they take away things and don't give players new things it ruins the game, people don't buy cards, and WOTC (MtG overlords) loses money and stop paying people to make MtG, which is why they very very rarely take away anyone's cards outright (and when they do they provide a lengthy explanation about why), and is the same reason why you can't just demand that Blizz "Gets rid of X unit now!" in StarCraft/StarCraft 2. That would actually kill the game. So please stop with adding to the nonsensical attitude of "delete this from the game it's horrible" without thinking about the bigger picture. On top of that, I don't think it's healthy for someone personally, on a mental or physical level, to think/act like this either. Maybe I'm literally the only one who sees things like this idk. If someone has a better argument in favor deleting units outright then I'd love to hear it. Otherwise it looks like the thread is starting to devolve so I'm out before I devolve along with it. xD | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:23 Sakat wrote: I will not pretend I'm any sort of expert on anything, just share my experience playing... I play all three races (depending on how I feel at any given day) and when I play as P, I literally only make adepts + something for AA, most people at my level just kinda die to it anyway because neither of us can micro properly or defend multiple locations correctly... Adepts got me into Plat when I can't even reach Silver with Z and am struggling to climb out of Gold with T... Protoss was my weakest race in HotS... Can confirm.A fter LoTV out I switched from T to P because I saw Adepts winning every pro game. I didn't lose any games upto plat dispite not playing toss before. And yes all I did was mass adepts with +1/glaves and warp prism. Could have probably gone into dia with it but I stopped playing for a while. edit: then again you could copy any allin from a GSL/proleague game and win against plat players regardless of balance | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:58 Poopi wrote: ByuN 3raxed his way to victory? Yeah sure he didn't at all play all 3 matchups and he was just a 3rax cheeser, what did I just read. Meanwhile herO beat Gumiho TY and aLive and a lone zerg, ByuL, on his way to victory. herO won because he had the right bracket at the right time (mine nerf), with good preparation for ByuL. My point was his 3-rax-reapers cheese build was unbeatable at the time. He basically won every match with that build and no one seems to complain about that part. In fact, he was winning with that build because of his control, not necessarily that reapers with KD8 was OP. So adepts + phoenixes combo is not always winning without a superior control. I hate when people use one single unit to delegitimize someone's win. Will see if next time Terran win a tournament and people start to whine about WM and Liberators again. God forbids Zerg may win something and someone may want to make a case of Ultra OP or Ravenger OP. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:31 Vutalisk wrote: Dude, I applaud you so much right now. ByuN 3-rax-reaper his way to victories (BlizzCon and GSL) and no one said a damn thing. Protoss won GSL and Super Tournament and giant explosion of "Adept is OP" following. People think adepts and phoenixes are like piece of cake. Spamming them and win. Yah right. If Terran turtle up and bunkers, WMs and tanks, they should be fine. By the time, they get enough Marauders and WMs, they will bully the Protoss big time. No one seems to whine about that. Many Terrans like to push prematurely vs Adepts/Phoenixes (like 2 Medivacs + 16 marines with no stim), lose and then whine adepts are OP. ByuN 3-raxed in like 3 maps in all of blizzcon and barely ever in GSL. Most his games were won through marine pushes and harass. And btw EVERYONE agreed 3rax was broken at the time. I can't remember people saying it was balanced (they probably did idk, some people defend anything) although byuN did have the best control, there's no way to stop it being efficient TY did a tank push twice in IEM, while winning many long macro games. And everyone still agreed it's OP vs robo herO massed 2 units every game of the tournament near enough and none of the terrans could do anything. Until terran players can actually win against it, there's no way to call it balanced. Remember when people said PvT was balanced in 2014? when every game was either blink allin or 3 base deathball being unstoppable? Yeah, that | ||
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Weltall
Italy83 Posts
There could be even a shield nerf; this way their role as anti-light low hp unit become more defined, while zealot keep the tanky role. Still, with so many high dps aoe units from zergs and terran, Zealot become just a mineral waste in line fight since they get melted. They are extremly usefull in harassing, especially when charge is researched. I think they should be more tanky in late game: by adding a reserchable passive upgrade or just making their armor and shield scale better in late game. Without adept mobility protoss would then need something else to harass, maybe a revert to prism nerf could be useful | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 13 2017 02:20 Weltall wrote: I would trade shade ability for a bounce attack instead, like in lotv alpha. There could be even a shield nerf; this way their role as anti-light low hp unit become more defined, while zealot keep the tanky role. Still, with so many high dps aoe units from zergs and terran, Zealot become just a mineral waste in line fight since they get melted. They are extremly usefull in harassing, especially when charge is researched. I think they should be more tanky in late game: by adding a reserchable passive upgrade or just making their armor and shield scale better in late game. Without adept mobility protoss would then need something else to harass, maybe a revert to prism nerf could be useful I was under the belief that adepts were tanky as hell. I guess they just give that "GODDAMMIT HOW CAN FOUR ADEPTS FINISH A WHOLE MINERAL IN THE TIME IT TAKES MY WHOLE ARMY TO KILL THEM". I think someone mentioned earlier that they have the combo of being tanky, high dps (vs light), and insane mobility. Every other unit only has 2 of those max, which makes them insane harassers. Although the harassment can be dealt with as terran even if it's difficult. It's more the adept-pheonix armies which are impossible to beat straight up. Maybe Terran can win if they just bunker up for 15 mins or so (blink stalker allins all over again lol) | ||
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loko822
54 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:31 Vutalisk wrote: Dude, I applaud you so much right now. ByuN 3-rax-reaper his way to victories (BlizzCon and GSL) and no one said a damn thing. Protoss won GSL and Super Tournament and giant explosion of "Adept is OP" following. People think adepts and phoenixes are like piece of cake. Spamming them and win. Yah right. If Terran turtle up and bunkers, WMs and tanks, they should be fine. By the time, they get enough Marauders and WMs, they will bully the Protoss big time. No one seems to whine about that. Many Terrans like to push prematurely vs Adepts/Phoenixes (like 2 Medivacs + 16 marines with no stim), lose and then whine adepts are OP. herO won ST because his adepts/phoenixes style is second to none. He always drags his phoenixes to draw the WMs friend-fire shots to Medivacs and Marines. That is how he won AKA his control! Without that control, he would be run over by MMM combo. No one seems to notice that. I do agree we should nerf the cool-down of Adepts a bit to make the shading part is a bit more tricky but that should be all. I'm playing Zerg and get bullied with adepts pressure all the time but I still think nerfing adepts too much is simply a WRONG move. Maybe, reducing the pick-up range of Warm Prism is a welcome change for Zerg .People did complain alot about reapers and they did get nerfed. Also I dont understand how some people pretend protoss never wins anything... | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:29 blunderfulguy wrote: Firstly, people always talk about this as if Warp Prisms give all of that for free with a 100% guarantee, but they cost resources (minerals, gas, and time) in addition to Gateways and Pylons to function, just like how a Nydus costs resources in addition to Larvae and Overlords, and you are never guaranteed to get value from either of these. On the contrary, these are usually used on the fly or in timing attacks which are made to happen by cutting corners and taking risks. Secondly, if the Protoss player loses their Warp Gate then the strategy of warping in units on your opponent's side of the battlefield is impossible, just like how destroying a Nydus makes it impossible for Zerg to endlessly swarm into your base, which makes people think about whether or not using them would be worthwhile. Warp Prisms are more central to the Protoss playstyle than Nydus, sure, but Protoss also doesn't have Creep or Medivacs that allow their units to zip around the map willy nilly so it balances them out against Z and T. Thirdly, on your side of the map it's much easier to shut down both of these because of the defender's advantage which, despite what people say, still exists when Warp Prisms and Nydus are used. The majority of the time they are active they are on the opponents side of the map, not your own, which weakens your own base defenses as well. The defender's advantage is actually made more interesting and complex when these exist, which is a good thing for an RTS, not a bad thing. -- Now, some thoughts I have on the idea that units you don't like should be removed from the game in some capacity. This goes for Warp Gate/Prisms, Adepts/Shades, and any unit, mechanic, or playstyle in a strategy game, but for the purposes of this discussion I won't talk about strategies that are removed because they actually break the game or ruin other players gaming experiences entirely (such as Turtling, increasing RNG, or Blue Control in Magic: the Gathering). Eliminating interactions without providing new ones is bad game design, especially when you eliminate something without providing a solid reason for it. If you take something away with a solid reason, you also better provide something new to replace it with. Look at Magic: the Gathering for example (or Hearthstone, YuGiOh, Pokémon). They take away cards and strategies from Standard play (you can think of it like Ladder Seasons) very often. However, every time they remove cards they give players new ones with similar or entirely new potential strategies. When they take away things and don't give players new things it ruins the game, people don't buy cards, and WOTC (MtG overlords) loses money and stop paying people to make MtG, which is why they very very rarely take away anyone's cards outright (and when they do they provide a lengthy explanation about why), and is the same reason why you can't just demand that Blizz "Gets rid of X unit now!" in StarCraft/StarCraft 2. That would actually kill the game. So please stop with adding to the nonsensical attitude of "delete this from the game it's horrible" without thinking about the bigger picture. On top of that, I don't think it's healthy for someone personally, on a mental or physical level, to think/act like this either. Maybe I'm literally the only one who sees things like this idk. If someone has a better argument in favor deleting units outright then I'd love to hear it. Otherwise it looks like the thread is starting to devolve so I'm out before I devolve along with it. xD Well first i talked about the idea of producing units anywhere on the map as long as there is a pylon or warp prism as the core production method. That you won't be able guaranteed to warp into the enemy base with a warp prism all the time, sure. That it costs ressources, well yeah. But a pylon which can be anywhere really? You might say you should know exactly what is going on in the near proximation of your base and while there is truth to it at the end of the day you a) cannot have full information and b) the protoss can protect said pylon/warpprism, etc. They tried to change it over time to make it harder, like with the added warpin time, etc. But at the end of the day these are bandaid fixes which don't adres the fundamental flaw of the warpgate design. You are right in saying that protoss as it is needs it, but that's the thing isn't it? Protoss was built around that idea. I really don't get your point about it being a more interesting form of defenders advantage when warpins/nydus are used. Makes no sense to me tbh. It simply weakens the defenders advantage of the opponent, there really isn't more to it than that. You can argue that the nydus comes at least somewhat late, but the strength of it is still quite broken as a concept. Literally as much units as you want can move through it, it cannot be destroyed while building, etc. It's actually bonkers. (it is still kinda underused outside of simple "nydus in your base" cases i think, though that could be because of the cost for sure) Warp prisms aren't quite on the lvl of strength, but it also doesn't cost as much which is why you see multiple prisms flying around now. About your second paragraph. I mean nobody wants to remove things without changing others, at least noone reasonable. Like i for example don't wanna remove warpgates and leave protoss as it is. That would be incredibly bad. Same for any other complaint you will see from me. I won't add it every time ("hey you need to rework other aspects then!") because it's kinda common sense i think. With that being said. I think if the units are well designed you really don't need a lot per race. I would argue that sc2 already has cases where units overlap to some extent and there simply will be a "better" one for a specific meta (usually leaning towards mobility) Like you probably don't want to add a new piece to chess (i usually hate these analogies but hey that one kinda works) Also again, removing something surely would come with reworks somewhere else. Nobody here wants to play marines vs zerglings vs zealots | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On April 13 2017 02:16 Fango wrote: ByuN 3-raxed in like 3 maps in all of blizzcon and barely ever in GSL. Most his games were won through marine pushes and harass. And btw EVERYONE agreed 3rax was broken at the time. I can't remember people saying it was balanced (they probably did idk, some people defend anything) although byuN did have the best control, there's no way to stop it being efficient TY did a tank push twice in IEM, while winning many long macro games. And everyone still agreed it's OP vs robo herO massed 2 units every game of the tournament near enough and none of the terrans could do anything. Until terran players can actually win against it, there's no way to call it balanced. Remember when people said PvT was balanced in 2014? when every game was either blink allin or 3 base deathball being unstoppable? Yeah, that herO didn't mass Adepts/Phoenixes every game. He did in fact lose one game (Game 4) which was really the case of "massing". Also, Terran is not always losing to mass adepts/phoenixes. herO wins some and lose some. Also, what else can Protoss do to win vs T? Robo play and then as you said it, they do Tanks push and you die. Adepts/Phoenixes play is at least viable. Until you somehow allow Protoss to win vs T in another way then by all mean, nerfing A/P. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On April 13 2017 02:57 loko822 wrote: People did complain alot about reapers and they did get nerfed. Also I dont understand how some people pretend protoss never wins anything... Yah, I agree with cool-down nerf which I think should be the case for Adepts as well. But people here clearly Terran-biased as they want to remove the shade and then reduce health. Basically, want to make Adepts completely useless so Terran can win tournament again after we already have Inno and TY won IEMs. | ||
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SwiftRH
United States105 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On April 13 2017 03:22 SwiftRH wrote: make adepts great again. give them back vision so toss can at least get some scouting done early game just like America, they have been great all along... | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
On April 13 2017 03:09 Vutalisk wrote: herO didn't mass Adepts/Phoenixes every game. He did in fact lose one game (Game 4) which was really the case of "massing". Also, Terran is not always losing to mass adepts/phoenixes. herO wins some and lose some. Also, what else can Protoss do to win vs T? Robo play and then as you said it, they do Tanks push and you die. Adepts/Phoenixes play is at least viable. Until you somehow allow Protoss to win vs T in another way then by all mean, nerfing A/P. It's amazingly funny how everyone is like "you can only phoenix/adept else you die to tanks!!" but it's really not that easy to die to tanks when you do something else. Anyways the game was better before the 3.8 tankivac nerf and all other units changes :/, they should have just changed the ultras and the things that were wrong in ZvP and call it a day. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On April 13 2017 05:17 Poopi wrote: It's amazingly funny how everyone is like "you can only phoenix/adept else you die to tanks!!" but it's really not that easy to die to tanks when you do something else. Anyways the game was better before the 3.8 tankivac nerf and all other units changes :/, they should have just changed the ultras and the things that were wrong in ZvP and call it a day. Of course, it was better for you as Terran because nothing was more ridiculous than a Medivac picking up a sieged tank and dropping it everywhere to harass your opponent to death with one sieged tank alone. I can say the same about A/P as it is not really that easy to die to A/P when you do something else like mass WMs in early game! | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 13 2017 05:17 Poopi wrote: It's amazingly funny how everyone is like "you can only phoenix/adept else you die to tanks!!" but it's really not that easy to die to tanks when you do something else. Anyways the game was better before the 3.8 tankivac nerf and all other units changes :/, they should have just changed the ultras and the things that were wrong in ZvP and call it a day. Tankivac singlehandedly made me leave the game. It was so so so fucking stupid. | ||
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K_osss
United States113 Posts
On April 10 2017 09:44 showstealer1829 wrote: TL:DR Says this isn't a Balance Whine thread Proceeds to Balance Whine for 15 paragraphs. The problem isn't Adept, It's that Protoss has literally no other options but Adept. Everything else has been either nerfed into the ground or due to changes in warp in times make it no longer viable, Protoss live and die by doing early damage and Phoenix Adept is about the only way you can still do it, take away that and what's the point in us even playing? This is the problem if the complaint is really about the adept not being a fun unit to play with. Don't nerf adept, make it less crucial to gameplay - when it isn't required to compete on equal footing then you have the option to use it or not depending on if you enjoy using it. | ||
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