Community Feedback Update - January 23 - Page 5

On January 24 2017 18:32 ArtyK wrote:


They either don't realize or they do but get replaced by others

On January 24 2017 07:45 NonY wrote:

I don't get it. You're not considering the alternative. You're just giving an example supporting what you're saying.

Two ways I can think of to consider the alternative:

#1 You point out times when the community was able to identify something as problematic and it ended up never being solved by players or by maps, so it never got solved until the game itself changed. But what about the times when the community identifies something and it does resolve itself without changes to the game itself? Doing your analysis in hindsight prevents you from testing yourself against this at all. Community feedback is like a shotgun blast and you focus on the pellets that hit the target and forget about all the ones that miss. The ones that miss are the alternative.

#2 You never know when a problem is actually unsolvable. BW was played unchanged for so many years and radically new strategies were still being invented (that did not depend on new maps). When Blizzard doesn't change something for a long time, and then finally does change it, how do you know a player's solution wasn't right around the corner? Maybe Blizzard didn't wait long enough. So the alternative here lies in a hypothetical future.

If Blizzard quickly changed the rules of the game, players are robbed of the opportunity to solve their problems strategically, which is the essence of the game. There's no point to a cycle of "play the game" -> "encounter an obstacle" -> "wait for patch to mix things up again". It's okay for MOBAs with 100 heroes and endless team comps but not okay for RTS with 3 races.

You'd be creating situations where players encounter an obstacle and don't even try very hard to solve it, but rather they just bypass it. They can do some all-ins or make unusual compositions for that one matchup for this one season because next season they know it's going to be changed.

On January 24 2017 21:37 ArtyK wrote:


It's not that they don't realize their suggestions are good or bad, i meant that lots of players don't realize their attitude and anger towards blizzard is unjustified, they think they would do a better job.
They don't look at the state of balance in a competitive environment from each race point of view, they just look at one particular week of pro games or what they're losing to on ladder and suggest things based upon that without testing and checkign numbers...

And i know perfectly well why you cannot expect coherent solutions from such a large community, that's exactly why i suggested to ignore the majority of comments about balance or whatever blizzard is doing wrong, unless it's constructive and civil.

Now when you end up in situations where liberators have an untouchable spot to harass mineral lines, because lack of testing, i totally understand why blizzard gets criticized.
Things like that happened on dusk towers for its entire lifespan, they didn't fix it, but they still manage to bring in a map with the same flaw this new season? Balance is hard but you'd think they could prevent such problems considering they already happened.
And before people tell me that liberator is the problem, in this case no, it isn't.
3 rax reaper was too strong on half the map pool, this is one specific spot on one specific map, you could literally do a quick hotfix and be done with it.

On January 24 2017 22:51 ArtyK wrote:


They tried design change with 3.8, but hydra buff was clearly too much and dt blink is useless. But tanks have changed a lot obviously.
The issue i mentionned was simply an example out of dozens...and grenade damage is a stat change :p

It's weird for you to say "Another point which I want to make is that you cannot expect a diverse community of players such as this to provide coherent arguments or solutions."
And then in your next post "What we can savely say however—and that's really sad actually—, is that the part of the community which wants big changes to the game is being ignored completely."
You can't listen to everyone for the reason stated in your first sentence...blizzard has to make the choices, i'm sure they heard about tons of ideas, big or small, doesn't mean they're only ignoring the big ones specifically.

On January 25 2017 00:07 ArtyK wrote:


I'm not saying they aren't ignoring big changes, i'm saying they also ignore tons of small changes, hence the use of the word "specifically". In the end it obviously makes more sense to do more little changes, and a few big ones, just like they tried with 3.8.

And whose to say they never considered huge design changes? Not doing something =/= not considering it.
If we're still stuck with photon overcharge it's because blizzard is satisfied with keeping it for now, otherwise they would have done something in 3.8.

On January 25 2017 00:13 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Is this post positive enough? No probably not but how can you be actually positive when there is almost no multiplayer work put in? (at least none we can see)

On January 25 2017 01:07 DinoMight wrote:
Yo,

Blizzard needs to make this game fun or else nobody will play, and nobody will watch. You can't only balance around the top top tier of players and leave all the diamond Protosses out to dry. They are the target market! They are the people that are watching your eSports events and building community around the game.

If the game becomes unfun, people will stop playing, and they'll stop watching.

I've essentially moved on to CSGO as my main game now, because StarCraft hasn't been fun at all for me since LotV.


The biggest issue with Widow Mines and Liberators isn't the damage or the tech or build orders etc.... It's that it takes significantly more APM to play against them than with them. It's just not fun to have to work your ass off to fight these things only to get ROFLSTOMPED by a bunch of stim bio minutes later because you were busy microing fucking probes while the Terran sits in his base and presses 4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

I want the game to be about playing the game, not about babysitting your fucking probes all game.

On January 24 2017 21:40 LSN wrote:



The very difference between BW and SC2 is that SC2 gives players less wiggle room, less room to breath and everything is much more streamlined and speeded up. Therefore developments and possible solutions out of players happen in a more narrow path, are more predictable as well as happen faster.
Also when SC/BW was released global esports didn't exist yet, replays didn't exist and everything was taking place in an environment that wasn't optimized for progaming. Hence information was scarce and retrieval and distribution of information took longer. It was majorly limited to those guys who a) put extreme efforts to create information (observing, using external data and later replay tools for analysis) and b) those who started already then to extend their networks to an international/global bandwidth.

SC2 built on that foundation of broodwar. Information and analysing tools were delivered with release. A much higher amount of expert players with a much higher networking degree exchange information much faster.

What was true for broodwar can not be just be applied equally to SC2. It is true what the dude said that it was very much predictable that certain situations weren't going to be solved by players themselves and obviously needed quicker help from administration instead of leaving them for months upon months in an unbalanced and frustrating state.

This is what is called progress. If that's good or bad is another story. It also can be held responsible for why we experience SC2 less fulfilling than BW to a certain degree. It was much more satisfying to explore these new grounds and contribute to their development back in the days.

On January 25 2017 01:35 Ganseng wrote:


well did you play terran as successfully as you played protoss?
how do you know what's easy and what's not?

On January 25 2017 01:07 DinoMight wrote:
Yo,

Blizzard needs to make this game fun or else nobody will play, and nobody will watch.