EPTLet's talk about Swarmhosts/Mech - Page 8
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xyzz
567 Posts
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
TLDR: Leave competent ppl do their just since your opinion are mostly even more incompetent than theirs... Once a year you say something that makes sense (if i exclude calling me and my mom with words), but than you overthrow it with these ridiculous balance changes, ideas and than you are suprised noone gives a f about you and noone takes you seriously. | ||
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cmdspinner1
140 Posts
On January 14 2017 20:57 PharaphobiaSC wrote: Why do you guys even giving him attention.. that's what I don't get... If he get's used to pointlessly cry about everything he dislikes and loosing to.. than he will never move out from that room... TLDR: Leave competent ppl do their just since your opinion are mostly even more incompetent than theirs... Once a year you say something that makes sense (if i exclude calling me and my mom with words), but than you overthrow it with these ridiculous balance changes, ideas and than you are suprised noone gives a f about you and noone takes you seriously. I suppose you are talking about avilo. His complaint about the swarmhost isn't ridiculous. Most people don't play mech and thus don't know what they are talking about, but people who do know that he is right. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
One of the main points of the 3.8 patch was to make mech more viable. Since the patch mech has actually become less viable then before the patch in TvZ. The reason for this is the Swarm Host price reduction. Swarm Hosts forces the mech player to turle. Before the Swarm Host price reduction the mech player could try to take out the Zerg player before Hive, since Vipers hard counter mech. Swarm Hosts have made it so that mech can not even attack in the midgame (except if you do a cyclone all-in and your opponent forgets to scout). How many pro level tournament games have you seen lately with mech in TvZ that was not a cyclone/hellbat all-in? I can not remember a single one. Even Blizzard acknowledged that the Swarm Host price reduction was to much. They did it in order to make the unit more popular and evaluate its role. Problem is that they get no pro level data since pro level player have already adapted to dirt cheap Swarm Hosts by never using mech against Zerg. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On January 14 2017 23:58 MockHamill wrote: Forgot Avilo and focus on the issue. One of the main points of the 3.8 patch was to make mech more viable. Since the patch mech has actually become less viable then before the patch in TvZ. The reason for this is the Swarm Host price reduction. Swarm Hosts forces the mech player to turle. Before the Swarm Host price reduction the mech player could try to take out the Zerg player before Hive, since Vipers hard counter mech. Swarm Hosts have made it so that mech can not even attack in the midgame (except if you do a cyclone all-in and your opponent forgets to scout). How many pro level tournament games have you seen lately with mech in TvZ that was not a cyclone/hellbat all-in? I can not remember a single one. Even Blizzard acknowledged that the Swarm Host price reduction was to much. They did it in order to make the unit more popular and evaluate its role. Problem is that they get no pro level data since pro level player have already adapted to dirt cheap Swarm Hosts by never using mech against Zerg. That's a good way to sum it up. | ||
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xyzz
567 Posts
On January 14 2017 23:58 MockHamill wrote: Forgot Avilo and focus on the issue. One of the main points of the 3.8 patch was to make mech more viable. Since the patch mech has actually become less viable then before the patch in TvZ. The reason for this is the Swarm Host price reduction. Swarm Hosts forces the mech player to turle. Before the Swarm Host price reduction the mech player could try to take out the Zerg player before Hive, since Vipers hard counter mech. Swarm Hosts have made it so that mech can not even attack in the midgame (except if you do a cyclone all-in and your opponent forgets to scout). How many pro level tournament games have you seen lately with mech in TvZ that was not a cyclone/hellbat all-in? I can not remember a single one. Even Blizzard acknowledged that the Swarm Host price reduction was to much. They did it in order to make the unit more popular and evaluate its role. Problem is that they get no pro level data since pro level player have already adapted to dirt cheap Swarm Hosts by never using mech against Zerg. Vipers hard counter mech? A unit 'hard counters' an entire play style? I see Avilo win a ton of games on his stream against Zergs that have Vipers. Sometimes he loses too, but shouldn't he lose all the time since Vipers hard counter his entire race and play style? You really don't seem to understand what a 'hard counter' is. What you are referring to is a 'strong unit, perhaps even a soft counter', but you call it 'hard counter' to make your argument more striking, but all you're actually doing is making yourself as laughable as Avilo with all the hyperbole nonsense. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard counter By the way, keep dodging Scarlett's entire post because you can't handle the truth. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On January 14 2017 23:58 MockHamill wrote: Forgot Avilo and focus on the issue. One of the main points of the 3.8 patch was to make mech more viable. Since the patch mech has actually become less viable then before the patch in TvZ. The reason for this is the Swarm Host price reduction. Swarm Hosts forces the mech player to turle. Before the Swarm Host price reduction the mech player could try to take out the Zerg player before Hive, since Vipers hard counter mech. Swarm Hosts have made it so that mech can not even attack in the midgame (except if you do a cyclone all-in and your opponent forgets to scout). How many pro level tournament games have you seen lately with mech in TvZ that was not a cyclone/hellbat all-in? I can not remember a single one. Even Blizzard acknowledged that the Swarm Host price reduction was to much. They did it in order to make the unit more popular and evaluate its role. Problem is that they get no pro level data since pro level player have already adapted to dirt cheap Swarm Hosts by never using mech against Zerg. Well Patch 3.8 made Terran the strongest race of the game (but not surprising when you give one race 10 buffs, the other barely 3, then revert some buffs). It's funny how Innovation who was invisible all this time, suddently become best player of the world in less than 2 months, just after the patch realeased. Zest eliminated from code A by Keen and Bunny ?! Lost vs semper ? PvT dropped from 50% to 40% after the patch. The game was more balanced before the patch, but of course you guys discuss about nerfing Z... What's about reverting patch 3.8 so ? You even admit mech was better before the patch. | ||
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bashscript
11 Posts
On January 14 2017 20:57 PharaphobiaSC wrote: Why do you guys even giving him attention.. that's what I don't get... If he get's used to pointlessly cry about everything he dislikes and loosing to.. than he will never move out from that room... Because it's hilarious, mostly. This thread is the companion book to watching Golden troll him on stream. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
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VHbb
692 Posts
On January 15 2017 00:52 bashscript wrote: Because it's hilarious, mostly. This thread is the companion book to watching Golden troll him on stream. Avilo build his "character" on whining and complaining, that's the only reason he has some following on his stream. Even if Blizzard would buff mech to the point of it being overpowered, he would still keep complaining since this is his source of "revenue" from his stream. Imagine ad Avilo stream where he just plays, without balance whine and out of his usual character, he would probably get 0 views, since there are much more talented / entertaining players streaming at the same time. So listening to him about balance his a bit misleading in my opinion. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
There's nothing exciting or fun in dealing with swarm hosts. And it's weird too, because there's so many good ways to fix that. Change their price or their speed, or maybe nerf their hp so we can chase them with hellions or banshees etc etc. Things that would still make turtle mech unviable, but would at least make the unit create interesting interactions. CURRENTLY THERE'S NO INTERESTING INTERACTION WITH SWARM HOSTS. Imagine if SHs were light for example. It would create a cat-and-mouse with hellions. Now that's an interesting interaction right there. | ||
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Comedy
469 Posts
On January 15 2017 02:20 ihatevideogames wrote: As a diamond meching terran, I'm not really allowed to talk about 'balance', but damn I got every right to say IT'S NOT FUCKING FUN. Swarm Hosts are so infuriating to deal with I'd rather not play untill they're changed. There's nothing exciting or fun in dealing with swarm hosts. And it's weird too, because there's so many good ways to fix that. Change their price or their speed, or maybe nerf their hp so we can chase them with hellions or banshees etc etc. Things that would still make turtle mech unviable, but would at least make the unit create interesting interactions. CURRENTLY THERE'S NO INTERESTING INTERACTION WITH SWARM HOSTS. Imagine if SHs were light for example. It would create a cat-and-mouse with hellions. Now that's an interesting interaction right there. Have you tried playing bio mate? You'll never see swarmhosts | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On January 15 2017 03:48 Comedy wrote: Have you tried playing bio mate? You'll never see swarmhosts Bingo. If Mech is so shit it's a simple solution. DON'T PLAY MECH! But like I said earlier in the case of avilo, that would mean he'd have to stop conning fanboys who actually believe his bullshit and actually admit to himself he sucks. Could never happen. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
On January 15 2017 03:48 Comedy wrote: Have you tried playing bio mate? You'll never see swarmhosts I don't like bio, although I've been succesful with it every time I tried it. Something about going 2-1-1 every single game and winning by out-mutlitasking isn't appealing to me. I prefer a more positional game. 3.8 was supossed to be the patch that made more things other than bio viable, but the opposite ended up happening. Watching pros go bio/lib for a year already turned me off most tournaments. The cyclone/hellbat all-ins are just that, all-ins. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
You know what? There's nothing exciting or fun in dealing with mech as you want it. (I play both T and Z.) Or to quote you; IT'S NOT FUCKING FUN. MECH AS YOU WANT IT DOES NOT PROVIDE INTERESTING INTERACTIONS. The various styles of bio is fun, it's interesting. Mech is so boring, I nearly fell asleep playing with it, even when I win. But I recognise that I have chosen to play the races and styles I enjoy, rather than demanding that pure barracks or some bullshit is more viable and fun. Ultimately, there is no reason why the concept of "avilo mech and their proponents" which seems to currently mean " I can make the arbitrary units based on their production building to force the strategy of defending forever until I can attack with an invincible army and win the game all the time" should ever exist. Mech exists since HotS and plenty have fun playing and winning with them. Plenty of pros (ie not Avilo), have won games with factory units as a core units since HotS using a variety of strategies. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On January 15 2017 03:48 Comedy wrote: Have you tried playing bio mate? You'll never see swarmhosts How the hell is this a valid argument or even a healthy statement to make in relation to the gameplay of SC2? No one wants to see mech every game, but throughout the game's lifetime it has always been the opposite extreme like it currently is: You go bio and now 16 marine drop almost 95% of your games and you will see the same exact game a pro level every single game. Strategic diversity is pretty important for a game of Starcraft2's nature. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On January 15 2017 08:03 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Mech is not OP in BW. Mech in BW is a totally different beast to SC2. In SC2 the army can move together, providing no opportunities to pick off units, tanks have no overkill, with the effect that a supply capped mech army is more effective than in bw against pure ground and the economt and bases to defend to build up a mech force is totally different. Also the mech style expoused in this SC2 thread is totally different from the mech that is played in BW. In BW, it is accepted that there has to be powerful spells or units which directly counter mech play. Avilo mech proponents argues that these counters should not exist. Only an idiot or someone that wants SC2 to fail would want there to be no counters to a strategy. There should be viable counter options to everything in the game. Which is exactly what this thread is about. Swarmhosts currently have no counter play if you opt for mech. They are over the top and do not belong in the game because they generate free income every 30 seconds. Mech was better off before the ridiculous swarmhost buffs, and now it's near impossible to play if your opponent knows about swarmhosts being absurdly broken atm. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On January 10 2017 11:30 Scarlett` wrote: Because if its viable to sit in your base and get an ultimate army in a matchup it pretty much ruins the gameplay and makes it boring to watch TY/Gumiho still play mech most games (TY is 6.9k on KR; gumiho ~6.5kish) and innovation occasionaly does (he has a 7k account on kr) in tvz so it still seems pretty viable at least against zerg But yeah sure avilo, whatever you say. | ||
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