• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:03
CEST 07:03
KST 14:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy13
Community News
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris53Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15
StarCraft 2
General
Hire a professional forensic recovery experts Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Production Quality - Maestros of the Game Vs RSL 2 Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Victoria gamers Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Is there English video for group selection for ASL Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2123 users

Community Feedback Update - December 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
161 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Edowyth
Profile Joined October 2010
United States183 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-05 20:25:28
December 02 2016 18:41 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Source


Balance changes during the off-season

In order to get more testing done, we’d like to change up how we do patches just for this off-season. Instead of putting every balance change through the balance test map process, we’ll decide on a case-by-case basis. We’ll try to push out smaller or more known changes to the live game quickly, but we’ll still test the larger or less certain changes on the test map before going live.
After going through both the community and pro feedback since the release of the patch, we’re thinking to push out these two changes rather soon:

Revert Cyclone range upgrade

Pro players have pointed out that they were dealing with the early game Cyclone all-ins toward the end of the testing phase right before this nerf went out, so we’d like to try reverting this change and go from there. We hear the concerns that early range can be problematic in TvT in particular, but because players were already finding solutions to some cases, we think this could use more testing. Defending against new threats often takes longer to learn than executing attacks, so we can come to a better conclusion in a couple weeks.

Colossus +light damage (current thinking is 12 +4 light)

We agree that with the mid/late game buffs to Zerg, Protoss looks to be struggling at those stages. This change would help against players going heavy Hydralisks. And with the Cyclone nerf being reverted, this change will help in PvT as we’ve seen bio was very strong in combination with heavy Cyclone usage before the upgrade change. We do hear concerns that this could either bring back the colossus-dominated metagame of HotS, or make bio too weak overall in PvT. We will be watchful going forward to ensure this does not become the case.

Viper

The other main thing currently on the list is Viper strength vs. mech play. We’d like to discuss a couple possibilities: nerfing the duration of Blinding Cloud vs. reducing the range of Abduct. Please give us your thoughts in this area.

Demotions on ladder this season

There was some discussion/confusion regarding demotions at the start of this season so we wanted to provide some clarification. Last season was the first time that we bootstrapped your off-races to the MMR of your main race due to the introduction of separate MMR per race. This potentially caused players to rank higher than their actual skill level on their off-races. At the start of this season, the boundaries automatically adjusted to the correct values, so many players at the higher levels of the ladder were seeing lower ranks than they did toward the end of last season. We expect player rankings to continue becoming more accurate over time.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
"Q. How do I check a valid [e-]mail address? A. You can't, at least, not in real time. Bummer, eh?" /r/programming
Of course, you could just send them a validation email.
usopsama
Profile Joined April 2008
6502 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 18:45:04
December 02 2016 18:43 GMT
#2
Reduce the range of abduct. Also, nerf Hydras.
redloser
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1728 Posts
December 02 2016 18:45 GMT
#3
Uhm, why not remove the Hydra buff rather than buffing Colossi? For the Viper change, nerfing the duration of BC might be okay since it is mostly used in ZvMech unlike in HotS, but reducing the Abduct range is a no-no; otherwise you can't really fight against the skytoss without it.
Athenau
Profile Joined March 2015
569 Posts
December 02 2016 18:47 GMT
#4
Reducing the range on abduct is better than reducing blinding cloud duration. The problem with abduct is that it allows the viper to trade cost effectively with the units that are meant to zone it out. You can mitigate blinding cloud by spreading your units, you can't really do anything about abduct once the zerg has a large number of vipers abducting everything.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15971 Posts
December 02 2016 18:49 GMT
#5
I feel like blinding cloud and abduct are the smallest issues with the viper in zvt. In HotS you could zone out vipers with vikings. this is not possible anymore because of parasitic bomb countering vikings. Also parasitic bomb made BL/Viper OP because terran didn't have an answer to this before the raven buff (which is OP too)
solution: nerf/remove parasitic bomb so terran can counter vipers with vikings again - revert the seeker missile buff.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
ihatevideogames
Profile Joined August 2015
570 Posts
December 02 2016 18:51 GMT
#6
Why not just rework Blinding cloud to cut range in half instead of making the units inside it useless?
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16739 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 19:11:22
December 02 2016 18:53 GMT
#7
i've said this before.. i'll say it again.
how does the tongue of a flying unit pull a Sieged Tank out of the ground while the flying Viper remains motionless and in the exact same position?

shouldn't this "abduct"/tongue-pull not be possible at all OR at least force the Viper itself to move towards the Sieged Tank at least a little bit?

I say either a Sieged Tank can't be abducted at all.. .or the Viper is pulled forward as it pulls the Sieged Tank out of the ground and towards it... Both the Viper and Sieged Tank should come together and both objects should move.

nerf the Viper in this way... make it move towards the victim of its abduct/tongue-pull OR maybe lower the range of the tongue pull OR eliminate the abduct ability from working on Tanks seiged into the ground.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
December 02 2016 18:58 GMT
#8
On December 03 2016 03:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i've said this before.. i'll say it again.
how does the tongue of a flying unit pull a Sieged Tank out of the ground while the flying Viper remains motionless and in the exact same position?

shouldn't this "abduct"/tongue-pull not be possible at all OR at least force the Viper itself to move towards the Sieged Tank at least a little bit?

I say either a Sieged Tank can't be abducted at all.. .or the Viper is pulled forward as it pulls the Sieged Tank out of the ground and towards it... Both the Viper and Sieged Tank should come together and both objects should move.


It's a game where dudes with guns can take down kilometer long capital ships.A cavalier attitude to conservation of momentum is the least of our concerns.
xTJx
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil419 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 19:08:09
December 02 2016 18:59 GMT
#9
Then buff the range of lurkers to 13, so we can all play by massing defense? This is just ridiculous. I can't belive blizzard actualy thinks that a game of massing defense is fun. I mean, we all know the balance team is retarded, but really?

I have an even better idea. Remaster Broodwar so we can have a decent competitive RTS to play, and then leave SC2 to avilo fans. You can make it as awful and boring as you can. Don't expect the balance whine to stop until you still have anything in the game that counter siege tank lines tho.
No prejudices, i hate everyone equally.
xTJx
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil419 Posts
December 02 2016 19:04 GMT
#10
Btw, can't wait for protoss openning air to force hydras and then making colossi, it will be just like the old times:
http://i.imgur.com/19p9UlY.gif

User was temp banned for this post.
No prejudices, i hate everyone equally.
Ryu3600
Profile Joined January 2016
Canada469 Posts
December 02 2016 19:06 GMT
#11
I have a suggestion, Make the tank a massive unit. Before I get criticized Biotank vs Protoss would be more viable as players can use their tanks to break through forcefields (Meaning they need to un-siege a tank) As well in mech play this makes tanks un-targetable by abduct. In terms of the cyclone range why not just give it a similar upgrade to the adept glaives? where its main powerpoint is when the player decides to research the upgrade rather than have a mindless 6 range 0.1 attack speed shredder? I don't know entirely but if anyone else wants to throw in some suggestions to this id love to talk more in depth about it

(This feedback is just a bunch of random suggestions if you like it awesome! if you hate it good for you :D)
Maru is the best Terran ever.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16739 Posts
December 02 2016 19:09 GMT
#12
On December 03 2016 03:41 Edowyth wrote:
Balance changes during the off-season
In order to get more testing done, we’d like to change up how we do patches just for this off-season. Instead of putting every balance change through the balance test map process, we’ll decide on a case-by-case basis. We’ll try to push out smaller or more known changes to the live game quickly, but we’ll still test the larger or less certain changes on the test map before going live.
After going through both the community and pro feedback since the release of the patch, we’re thinking to push out these two changes rather soon:

this is a good idea. its great to be more experimental while its the off-season.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
ArtyK
Profile Joined June 2011
France3143 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 19:11:59
December 02 2016 19:10 GMT
#13
How about removing consume? Isn't the problem the fact that vipers virtually have infinite energy?
Then maybe let the viper start with 75 energy, it would allow to keep strong abilities without being able to spam them.

As for someone who don't want to see the colossus buffed in any way, i'd rather have the hydras keep that speed upgrade, but then remove the range upgrade and give them a default 6 range.
Sup dood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ KiWiKaKi | SLush | uThermal | PtitDrogo | SortOf | Clem ~ "I told my mom she should vote for me in Nation Wars, she said 'I dunno, I kinda want Finland to win'" – Luolis ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NScWV9h8k#t=1h01m
TL+ Member
Edowyth
Profile Joined October 2010
United States183 Posts
December 02 2016 19:11 GMT
#14
On December 03 2016 03:58 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
A cavalier attitude to conservation of momentum is the least of our concerns.


I so wish I had written that.
"Q. How do I check a valid [e-]mail address? A. You can't, at least, not in real time. Bummer, eh?" /r/programming
Of course, you could just send them a validation email.
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
December 02 2016 19:13 GMT
#15
On December 03 2016 03:58 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2016 03:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i've said this before.. i'll say it again.
how does the tongue of a flying unit pull a Sieged Tank out of the ground while the flying Viper remains motionless and in the exact same position?

shouldn't this "abduct"/tongue-pull not be possible at all OR at least force the Viper itself to move towards the Sieged Tank at least a little bit?

I say either a Sieged Tank can't be abducted at all.. .or the Viper is pulled forward as it pulls the Sieged Tank out of the ground and towards it... Both the Viper and Sieged Tank should come together and both objects should move.


It's a game where dudes with guns can take down kilometer long capital ships.A cavalier attitude to conservation of momentum is the least of our concerns.

10/10
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15971 Posts
December 02 2016 19:14 GMT
#16
On December 03 2016 04:06 Ryu3600 wrote:
I have a suggestion, Make the tank a massive unit. Before I get criticized Biotank vs Protoss would be more viable as players can use their tanks to break through forcefields (Meaning they need to un-siege a tank) As well in mech play this makes tanks un-targetable by abduct. In terms of the cyclone range why not just give it a similar upgrade to the adept glaives? where its main powerpoint is when the player decides to research the upgrade rather than have a mindless 6 range 0.1 attack speed shredder? I don't know entirely but if anyone else wants to throw in some suggestions to this id love to talk more in depth about it

(This feedback is just a bunch of random suggestions if you like it awesome! if you hate it good for you :D)

abduct works on massive units too
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 02 2016 19:14 GMT
#17
I say instead of buffing the stupid Colossus, Nerf Hydras, Nerf cost and make them 1 supply.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
December 02 2016 19:17 GMT
#18
On December 03 2016 04:14 blade55555 wrote:
I say instead of buffing the stupid Colossus, Nerf Hydras, Nerf cost and make them 1 supply.

or just revert the range buff and buff their health finally
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16739 Posts
December 02 2016 19:19 GMT
#19
On December 03 2016 04:10 ArtyK wrote:
How about removing consume? Isn't the problem the fact that vipers virtually have infinite energy?
Then maybe let the viper start with 75 energy, it would allow to keep strong abilities without being able to spam them.

good idea... or nerfing consume 5 fold so that it takes 5 times as much health from buildings and units as it does now.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
December 02 2016 19:22 GMT
#20
Colossus buff, that's exactly what people want because the unit is so fun to use and play against! And people really argue that blizzard actually wants to make the best game possible

I already said it in the other thread talking about viper abduct but hey this is a good place as well:
Spells in sc2 are always on the edge of being too strong because you can easily spam it. Having 5+ spellcasters and getting all the spells casted in 1 second is no problem. That's the issue, not individual spells being strong. Always the same in this game, a certain strategy revolving casters is perceived as too strong and then the spell gets nerfed so it only is useful when you actually have a large amount of casters. That's not interesting and it's certainly not fun to play.
The easiest method to change that would be to remove smartcasting, if there are other options i am ok with that too but people have to realise that spamming spells is the issue, no? (in the case of the viper it's obviously also the fact that it's a flying spellcaster which makes it even easier to use)
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 408
Noble 42
sSak 37
Purpose 10
Icarus 10
NotJumperer 3
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm140
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K961
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor81
Other Games
tarik_tv7961
summit1g7149
shahzam644
JimRising 566
C9.Mang0348
ViBE195
Hui .175
Maynarde114
kaitlyn49
Mew2King17
ROOTCatZ0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH228
• Sammyuel 35
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt247
Other Games
• Scarra774
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
4h 57m
RSL Revival
4h 57m
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
8h 57m
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
11h 57m
Solar vs Bunny
Clem vs Rogue
[BSL 2025] Weekly
12h 57m
OSC
16h 57m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Maestros of the Game
1d 11h
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
BSL Team Wars
1d 13h
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-02
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025: Warsaw LAN
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.