• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:25
CEST 07:25
KST 14:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed10Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
REAL ILLUMINATI AGENT KAMPALA+256782561496/0756664 Who will win EWC 2025? RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft in widescreen A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 669 users

Community Feedback Update - December 2 - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
161 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
ecnahc
Profile Joined January 2010
United States395 Posts
December 04 2016 21:11 GMT
#121
Vipers are problematic in regards to balance because they ignore terrain and counter positional play simultaneously. If they wanna nerf em they should put em behind a tech wall with some upgrades. Zerg really needs a powerful caster and the viper does it but I understand why it's hard to get right. While it is strong it's definitely not unbeatable and every race has an equally powerful answer.
inside a cloud of resentment and vanity
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
December 04 2016 21:33 GMT
#122
On December 05 2016 05:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2016 05:06 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 05 2016 04:52 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 04 2016 03:40 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 22:46 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
On December 03 2016 21:52 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 18:07 Nerchio wrote:
I am tired of Blizzard taking away any good units from Zerg and then you are left with mediocre only. Leave Vipers alone

There's a difference between "good" and "too good".
Zerg has plenty of good units. The viper in its current state is too good against terran mech and air.
because of its strength the raven needed to be buffed again and now tvz lategame is all about massing OP spellcasters.



Can you name me two good units? We are getting rekt by anything in lategame...

If you don't think zerg has any good units I won't be able to convince you otherwise so I don't even bother.

Btw terran has no good units and protoss has no good units.

Yeah sure :
I guess :

Marines are bad,
Reaper are bad
Medivac are bad
Tank are bad (just 13 range, and 70 dmg)
Wm are bad
Liberators are bad
Raven are bad

And adept bad,
Immortals bad,
Phoenix bad,
chargelots bad,
archons bad,
Hight templar bad,
Disruptor bad,
DT bad,
WP bad,
Carrier bad.

Why don't you switch to zerg, we'll see if you will become the first sc2 player of the world as Zerg so easy and so strong ?

ah you're right all t and p units are ridicolously strong while z units are all garbage and need to be buffed.
my bad how couldn't I see it..

thanks for reminding me why I want to get out of those balance discussions

No, you're missing the point zerg need strong units to deal with the strong units of the other race.

It's not a big deal for you that terran has acess to a 13 range unit with just a factory ?

Zerg must tech hive in order to get vipers and get a tank counter, but you can't make vikings or HT to counter vipers ?

You want that zerg have to wait broodlords tech to have something able to counter tanks ?


I can't decide whether this is excellent trolling, or pointless whine. Every unit in the zerg tech tree is used by pros, and zerg isn't underperforming (zerg might even be OP as a whole with the many buffs they recieved with 3.8). Not a single zerg unit is bad at the moment.
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
December 04 2016 22:26 GMT
#123
On December 05 2016 06:33 JackONeill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2016 05:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 05 2016 05:06 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 05 2016 04:52 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 04 2016 03:40 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 22:46 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
On December 03 2016 21:52 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 18:07 Nerchio wrote:
I am tired of Blizzard taking away any good units from Zerg and then you are left with mediocre only. Leave Vipers alone

There's a difference between "good" and "too good".
Zerg has plenty of good units. The viper in its current state is too good against terran mech and air.
because of its strength the raven needed to be buffed again and now tvz lategame is all about massing OP spellcasters.



Can you name me two good units? We are getting rekt by anything in lategame...

If you don't think zerg has any good units I won't be able to convince you otherwise so I don't even bother.

Btw terran has no good units and protoss has no good units.

Yeah sure :
I guess :

Marines are bad,
Reaper are bad
Medivac are bad
Tank are bad (just 13 range, and 70 dmg)
Wm are bad
Liberators are bad
Raven are bad

And adept bad,
Immortals bad,
Phoenix bad,
chargelots bad,
archons bad,
Hight templar bad,
Disruptor bad,
DT bad,
WP bad,
Carrier bad.

Why don't you switch to zerg, we'll see if you will become the first sc2 player of the world as Zerg so easy and so strong ?

ah you're right all t and p units are ridicolously strong while z units are all garbage and need to be buffed.
my bad how couldn't I see it..

thanks for reminding me why I want to get out of those balance discussions

No, you're missing the point zerg need strong units to deal with the strong units of the other race.

It's not a big deal for you that terran has acess to a 13 range unit with just a factory ?

Zerg must tech hive in order to get vipers and get a tank counter, but you can't make vikings or HT to counter vipers ?

You want that zerg have to wait broodlords tech to have something able to counter tanks ?


I can't decide whether this is excellent trolling, or pointless whine. Every unit in the zerg tech tree is used by pros, and zerg isn't underperforming (zerg might even be OP as a whole with the many buffs they recieved with 3.8). Not a single zerg unit is bad at the moment.


He has a valid point, while your doesn't. He wasn't even talking about the fact whether Z units are each good or bad. He's talking about why it requires Z to tech to T3 just to counter Terran's T2 unit, which makes 0 sense to me either. Terrans have the best of everything already - most flexibility, safest protection against all-ins, most cost efficient units, and now you're whining because he's bringing up a legit point about how Z needs superior tech unit + investment to beat a T lower tech unit?
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
December 04 2016 22:56 GMT
#124
So does anyone know if they are planning to correct this patch and address:

swarmhosts
hydralisks
vipers
infestor burrow cast
invincible nydus
adept shades
warp prisms
mass ravens
mech anti-air
mass reapers

????
Sup
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
December 04 2016 22:58 GMT
#125
I've stopped playing SC2 up to a month after immortal nerf. The game is getting some major balance patches, so if I decide to learn it again, is there too much to learn? I play protoss.
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2627 Posts
December 04 2016 23:19 GMT
#126
On December 05 2016 05:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2016 05:06 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 05 2016 04:52 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 04 2016 03:40 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 22:46 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
On December 03 2016 21:52 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 18:07 Nerchio wrote:
I am tired of Blizzard taking away any good units from Zerg and then you are left with mediocre only. Leave Vipers alone

There's a difference between "good" and "too good".
Zerg has plenty of good units. The viper in its current state is too good against terran mech and air.
because of its strength the raven needed to be buffed again and now tvz lategame is all about massing OP spellcasters.



Can you name me two good units? We are getting rekt by anything in lategame...

If you don't think zerg has any good units I won't be able to convince you otherwise so I don't even bother.

Btw terran has no good units and protoss has no good units.

Yeah sure :
I guess :

Marines are bad,
Reaper are bad
Medivac are bad
Tank are bad (just 13 range, and 70 dmg)
Wm are bad
Liberators are bad
Raven are bad

And adept bad,
Immortals bad,
Phoenix bad,
chargelots bad,
archons bad,
Hight templar bad,
Disruptor bad,
DT bad,
WP bad,
Carrier bad.

Why don't you switch to zerg, we'll see if you will become the first sc2 player of the world as Zerg so easy and so strong ?

ah you're right all t and p units are ridicolously strong while z units are all garbage and need to be buffed.
my bad how couldn't I see it..

thanks for reminding me why I want to get out of those balance discussions

No, you're missing the point zerg need strong units to deal with the strong units of the other race.

It's not a big deal for you that terran has acess to a 13 range unit with just a factory ?

Zerg must tech hive in order to get vipers and get a tank counter, but you can't make vikings or HT to counter vipers ?

You want that zerg have to wait broodlords tech to have something able to counter tanks ?


For unit that is (fianlly) strong the tank also has many weaknesses.

Fight them out of position.
Attack at different places to force resieges.
Nydus worms.
Overlord drops.
Hydras well spread and in a concave decimate tanks.
Lings are obviously greath but again it comes to how you take fights since theres bound to be hellbats.

And obiously, SH a T2 unit that cost only 100/75/2.

Sure a bunch of these options aren't as good as others but tanks are not some godtier unit that can only be countered by mass air armies.
NEEDZMOAR
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1277 Posts
December 04 2016 23:33 GMT
#127
On December 03 2016 07:20 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2016 06:35 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Can't colossus start with 7 range instead of 6? What about trimming off 15-20% of thermal lance time?
Modifying damage to 12+4 light is so extreme, what about +2 vs light damage and take it from there?

I would also bring Interceptor cost up to 10 (at least). It trades too well at max and killing interceptors isn't even an option now. Only to win by the no-interceptors-left-push-forward condition. Carrier should spawn with 8 interceptors too because they are too weak initially. You already spent a century building the thing so it should spawn with 8. Gravaton catapult upgrade should be removed and launch fire rate should be put somewhere betwen before and after upgrades. For defensive purposes, carriers should be able to build interceptors faster, especially if you reduce the launch fire rate I think this would help battles become more fair. Carrier strength is too binary.

About Viper. It HAS TO stay strong for Zerg to be able to defeat mech especially on medium size maps such as overgrowth.

Tweaking values won't change the fact that zerg is doing one of these:
- Attacking head on with a big sky zerg/viper/transfuse based army, bursting out all spells
- Taking small hit and run trades using viper spells and Consume continously (combos well with swarm host)

Simply nerfing the viper abilities won't solve the identity crisis of the viper. The unit by design is created to be in one of those modes and consume ENCOURAGES hit and run/over time play. If you remove that, you force straight up fights and thus possibly stale board state up until the point of combat. What do they want? A mobile hit and run ninja unit, or a big support caster for grand broodlord/corruptor/infestor viper? Because right now there is no doubt that Mass Raven destroys sky-zerg and that Mass Viper/Hydra/Swarmhost kill-them-before-they-get-there taking free trades is better. I do think Terran lategame is stronger than Zerg but it's impossible for them to reach that stage. So one should work on fixing both.


Viper has been OP for years now. If anything parasitic bomb made it god tier and should never have been added because it makes vikings useless as a counter.

Honestly both vipers and ravens needed to have their supply increased to around 4 years ago. These units are too cost efficient and the issue is when you get 10+ of either of them they take over the entire game. Making them cost more supply means you'd be able to get less of them in a maxed out army.

TBH let's just all be real here - they are scapegoating random units now because they don't want to admit they made a massive mistake with the hydra, swarmhost, and infestor buffs. These units are at absurd levels of imbalance right now. Rather than make more problems by buffing collosus and nerfing vipers, they should revert all of the ridiculous Zerg changes they made and just admit they were wrong and made a mistake.

Too bad we know that won't happen.


land your afflicted vikings, move the rest of them away.
or do the fake landing nathanias does.
or split because you have 10 fingers and I assume you play with a mouse.
_AK
Profile Joined November 2016
5 Posts
December 05 2016 00:29 GMT
#128
On December 05 2016 08:19 Lexender wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2016 05:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 05 2016 05:06 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 05 2016 04:52 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 04 2016 03:40 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 22:46 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
On December 03 2016 21:52 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 18:07 Nerchio wrote:
I am tired of Blizzard taking away any good units from Zerg and then you are left with mediocre only. Leave Vipers alone

There's a difference between "good" and "too good".
Zerg has plenty of good units. The viper in its current state is too good against terran mech and air.
because of its strength the raven needed to be buffed again and now tvz lategame is all about massing OP spellcasters.



Can you name me two good units? We are getting rekt by anything in lategame...

If you don't think zerg has any good units I won't be able to convince you otherwise so I don't even bother.

Btw terran has no good units and protoss has no good units.

Yeah sure :
I guess :

Marines are bad,
Reaper are bad
Medivac are bad
Tank are bad (just 13 range, and 70 dmg)
Wm are bad
Liberators are bad
Raven are bad

And adept bad,
Immortals bad,
Phoenix bad,
chargelots bad,
archons bad,
Hight templar bad,
Disruptor bad,
DT bad,
WP bad,
Carrier bad.

Why don't you switch to zerg, we'll see if you will become the first sc2 player of the world as Zerg so easy and so strong ?

ah you're right all t and p units are ridicolously strong while z units are all garbage and need to be buffed.
my bad how couldn't I see it..

thanks for reminding me why I want to get out of those balance discussions

No, you're missing the point zerg need strong units to deal with the strong units of the other race.

It's not a big deal for you that terran has acess to a 13 range unit with just a factory ?

Zerg must tech hive in order to get vipers and get a tank counter, but you can't make vikings or HT to counter vipers ?

You want that zerg have to wait broodlords tech to have something able to counter tanks ?


For unit that is (fianlly) strong the tank also has many weaknesses.

Fight them out of position.
Attack at different places to force resieges.
Nydus worms.
Overlord drops.
Hydras well spread and in a concave decimate tanks.
Lings are obviously greath but again it comes to how you take fights since theres bound to be hellbats.

And obiously, SH a T2 unit that cost only 100/75/2.

Sure a bunch of these options aren't as good as others but tanks are not some godtier unit that can only be countered by mass air armies.



And then put those tanks behind a gauntlet of liberators, widow mines, vikings, hellbats (heck, even ravens now), and none of those strategies work.

How absurd is it that instead of simply adjusting to a unit that evens the playing field, we have to hear incessant complaining from people who know one strategy that used to automatically win and it doesn't work the way it used to. Literally just a couple ghosts with snipe would deter the Zerg from poking in with the vipers. Such an easy unit to build tech-wise (yes, even when playing mech), and provides a one shot kill with greater range than the abduct. Wow! But, you know, I guess it's easier for most people to complain for years until Blizzard changes the game. If this one build I want to do doesn't work, it's not MY fault, the GAME must be unfair.
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2627 Posts
December 05 2016 00:40 GMT
#129
On December 05 2016 09:29 _AK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2016 08:19 Lexender wrote:
On December 05 2016 05:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 05 2016 05:06 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 05 2016 04:52 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 04 2016 03:40 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 22:46 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
On December 03 2016 21:52 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 18:07 Nerchio wrote:
I am tired of Blizzard taking away any good units from Zerg and then you are left with mediocre only. Leave Vipers alone

There's a difference between "good" and "too good".
Zerg has plenty of good units. The viper in its current state is too good against terran mech and air.
because of its strength the raven needed to be buffed again and now tvz lategame is all about massing OP spellcasters.



Can you name me two good units? We are getting rekt by anything in lategame...

If you don't think zerg has any good units I won't be able to convince you otherwise so I don't even bother.

Btw terran has no good units and protoss has no good units.

Yeah sure :
I guess :

Marines are bad,
Reaper are bad
Medivac are bad
Tank are bad (just 13 range, and 70 dmg)
Wm are bad
Liberators are bad
Raven are bad

And adept bad,
Immortals bad,
Phoenix bad,
chargelots bad,
archons bad,
Hight templar bad,
Disruptor bad,
DT bad,
WP bad,
Carrier bad.

Why don't you switch to zerg, we'll see if you will become the first sc2 player of the world as Zerg so easy and so strong ?

ah you're right all t and p units are ridicolously strong while z units are all garbage and need to be buffed.
my bad how couldn't I see it..

thanks for reminding me why I want to get out of those balance discussions

No, you're missing the point zerg need strong units to deal with the strong units of the other race.

It's not a big deal for you that terran has acess to a 13 range unit with just a factory ?

Zerg must tech hive in order to get vipers and get a tank counter, but you can't make vikings or HT to counter vipers ?

You want that zerg have to wait broodlords tech to have something able to counter tanks ?


For unit that is (fianlly) strong the tank also has many weaknesses.

Fight them out of position.
Attack at different places to force resieges.
Nydus worms.
Overlord drops.
Hydras well spread and in a concave decimate tanks.
Lings are obviously greath but again it comes to how you take fights since theres bound to be hellbats.

And obiously, SH a T2 unit that cost only 100/75/2.

Sure a bunch of these options aren't as good as others but tanks are not some godtier unit that can only be countered by mass air armies.



And then put those tanks behind a gauntlet of liberators, widow mines, vikings, hellbats (heck, even ravens now), and none of those strategies work.



Thats has nothing to do with the situation that was being discussed.
PharaphobiaSC
Profile Joined April 2016
Czech Republic457 Posts
December 05 2016 00:45 GMT
#130
On December 05 2016 07:56 avilo wrote:
So does anyone know if they are planning to correct this patch and address:

swarmhosts
hydralisks
vipers
infestor burrow cast
invincible nydus
adept shades
warp prisms
mass ravens
mech anti-air
mass reapers

????


They planning to continue ignoring you which seems to be best idea they ever had :^)
twitch.tv/pharaphobia
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
December 05 2016 02:44 GMT
#131
Why do they refuse to give Colossus default range? It would both open mid game tech variety and discourage late game Colossi massing than a straight damage buff would.
CptMarvel
Profile Joined May 2014
France236 Posts
December 05 2016 05:19 GMT
#132
Don't buff colossi you mad men
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
December 05 2016 05:27 GMT
#133
Maybe Don Draper is on the balance team.
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-05 08:41:15
December 05 2016 08:39 GMT
#134
On December 05 2016 07:26 parkufarku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2016 06:33 JackONeill wrote:
On December 05 2016 05:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 05 2016 05:06 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 05 2016 04:52 Tyrhanius wrote:
On December 04 2016 03:40 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 22:46 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
On December 03 2016 21:52 Charoisaur wrote:
On December 03 2016 18:07 Nerchio wrote:
I am tired of Blizzard taking away any good units from Zerg and then you are left with mediocre only. Leave Vipers alone

There's a difference between "good" and "too good".
Zerg has plenty of good units. The viper in its current state is too good against terran mech and air.
because of its strength the raven needed to be buffed again and now tvz lategame is all about massing OP spellcasters.



Can you name me two good units? We are getting rekt by anything in lategame...

If you don't think zerg has any good units I won't be able to convince you otherwise so I don't even bother.

Btw terran has no good units and protoss has no good units.

Yeah sure :
I guess :

Marines are bad,
Reaper are bad
Medivac are bad
Tank are bad (just 13 range, and 70 dmg)
Wm are bad
Liberators are bad
Raven are bad

And adept bad,
Immortals bad,
Phoenix bad,
chargelots bad,
archons bad,
Hight templar bad,
Disruptor bad,
DT bad,
WP bad,
Carrier bad.

Why don't you switch to zerg, we'll see if you will become the first sc2 player of the world as Zerg so easy and so strong ?

ah you're right all t and p units are ridicolously strong while z units are all garbage and need to be buffed.
my bad how couldn't I see it..

thanks for reminding me why I want to get out of those balance discussions

No, you're missing the point zerg need strong units to deal with the strong units of the other race.

It's not a big deal for you that terran has acess to a 13 range unit with just a factory ?

Zerg must tech hive in order to get vipers and get a tank counter, but you can't make vikings or HT to counter vipers ?

You want that zerg have to wait broodlords tech to have something able to counter tanks ?


I can't decide whether this is excellent trolling, or pointless whine. Every unit in the zerg tech tree is used by pros, and zerg isn't underperforming (zerg might even be OP as a whole with the many buffs they recieved with 3.8). Not a single zerg unit is bad at the moment.


He has a valid point, while your doesn't. He wasn't even talking about the fact whether Z units are each good or bad. He's talking about why it requires Z to tech to T3 just to counter Terran's T2 unit, which makes 0 sense to me either. Terrans have the best of everything already - most flexibility, safest protection against all-ins, most cost efficient units, and now you're whining because he's bringing up a legit point about how Z needs superior tech unit + investment to beat a T lower tech unit?


How clueless about the game do you have to be for whining about terran vs zerg tech trees? How many BCs, thors, even ghosts have you seen recently in TvZ pro games? How many terrans have you seen winning after T3 was out for zerg before the 3.8?
Having to tech up isn't necessarly a weakness. Hydras (pre-patch and post-patch) shred thors and BCs : T2>T3. Swaths of lings counter cyclones : T1>T2. Corruptors counter BCs, T2>T3. Now do you want me too to go "booohoo hoo terran terran tech is getting destroyed by zerg basic units OP OP OP"?
No because that's how the game works. Tech prevents how early and how massable an unit is. I doesn't prevent lower tech units from dealing with it. Are you gonna cry over T2 immortals countering T3 ultras and thors next?

Zerg got insane buffs going their way for this patch. Crying about it, when by every metric you can find zerg is doing extremely well with 3.8, is at an unreachable level of bias.
And terran got buffs too, and some of them are too strong : the 24 dmg turret is ridiculous, and the cyclone cheeses, that are already too strong, are gonna get even worse with the next patch.
Protoss got the short end of the stick, and frankly there isn't much protoss whine because they all left, which is understandable when PvZ is in the state it is.

So stop denying yourself any kind of perspective about how the game works as a whole, go play terran or protoss on the ladder, and come back maybe, just maybe, a little more informed.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
December 05 2016 09:00 GMT
#135
On December 05 2016 08:33 NEEDZMOAR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2016 07:20 avilo wrote:
On December 03 2016 06:35 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Can't colossus start with 7 range instead of 6? What about trimming off 15-20% of thermal lance time?
Modifying damage to 12+4 light is so extreme, what about +2 vs light damage and take it from there?

I would also bring Interceptor cost up to 10 (at least). It trades too well at max and killing interceptors isn't even an option now. Only to win by the no-interceptors-left-push-forward condition. Carrier should spawn with 8 interceptors too because they are too weak initially. You already spent a century building the thing so it should spawn with 8. Gravaton catapult upgrade should be removed and launch fire rate should be put somewhere betwen before and after upgrades. For defensive purposes, carriers should be able to build interceptors faster, especially if you reduce the launch fire rate I think this would help battles become more fair. Carrier strength is too binary.

About Viper. It HAS TO stay strong for Zerg to be able to defeat mech especially on medium size maps such as overgrowth.

Tweaking values won't change the fact that zerg is doing one of these:
- Attacking head on with a big sky zerg/viper/transfuse based army, bursting out all spells
- Taking small hit and run trades using viper spells and Consume continously (combos well with swarm host)

Simply nerfing the viper abilities won't solve the identity crisis of the viper. The unit by design is created to be in one of those modes and consume ENCOURAGES hit and run/over time play. If you remove that, you force straight up fights and thus possibly stale board state up until the point of combat. What do they want? A mobile hit and run ninja unit, or a big support caster for grand broodlord/corruptor/infestor viper? Because right now there is no doubt that Mass Raven destroys sky-zerg and that Mass Viper/Hydra/Swarmhost kill-them-before-they-get-there taking free trades is better. I do think Terran lategame is stronger than Zerg but it's impossible for them to reach that stage. So one should work on fixing both.


Viper has been OP for years now. If anything parasitic bomb made it god tier and should never have been added because it makes vikings useless as a counter.

Honestly both vipers and ravens needed to have their supply increased to around 4 years ago. These units are too cost efficient and the issue is when you get 10+ of either of them they take over the entire game. Making them cost more supply means you'd be able to get less of them in a maxed out army.

TBH let's just all be real here - they are scapegoating random units now because they don't want to admit they made a massive mistake with the hydra, swarmhost, and infestor buffs. These units are at absurd levels of imbalance right now. Rather than make more problems by buffing collosus and nerfing vipers, they should revert all of the ridiculous Zerg changes they made and just admit they were wrong and made a mistake.

Too bad we know that won't happen.


land your afflicted vikings, move the rest of them away.
or do the fake landing nathanias does.
or split because you have 10 fingers and I assume you play with a mouse.

I thought they already patched out the Viking fake landing interaction with Parasitic Bomb after the last patch
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3367 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-05 09:26:26
December 05 2016 09:21 GMT
#136
I reckon they should find a new role for the Swarm Host, before changing to much of other units like the Viper.
The issue is that they gave the Viper 4 spells suddenly, it's no surprise that this unit is way too all purpose and that getting too many of these is almost never a mistake. This is a unit that already defied all logic and didn't get it's own Tech Building, since initially it was meant as a Detector unit.
I think it should definitely give 1 of it's spells to another unit, though I'm not sure which yet, this depends on what the Swarm Host ends up being.

5 Cost Interceptor and the idea that we can deal with smaller numbers than 25, suddenly gives the Swarm Host potential.
Imagine a Swarm Host which is not idle for 80% of the time, amazing right?!

Swarm Host could get an auto-toggle ability, which spawns Eggs on the Swarm Host's back, 1 pr. 10 sec or so and it costs 5-10 Minerals. There would be a max number of Eggs on it's back, lets say 5.
Then you have 3 spawn abilities, which spends ALL of your eggs on the unit you select. 1. is Scourge (cheap anti air.) 2. is Burrow Locusts (Harassment tool, does heavy damage to buildings.) 3. is Broodlings (mass spawn army, completely gets destroyed by splash damage.)
Mb it's too much, but there's much more potential for this unit when there's cost, since it removes the issue of having 4 hour games, thereby no need to heavily under stat the unit in the first place.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
December 05 2016 09:53 GMT
#137
well i love mech but i feel they went too far this time

out of 10 games played after 3.8 i won 10

tanks seem unbreakable, you defend everything, expand to 4-5 bases, build up a bc fleet, and win

i know i'm only diamond, but 10/10 means something
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
December 05 2016 10:01 GMT
#138
battlecruisers en masse are truly invincible, at least in tvt
kill stuff with yamato, teleport behind tank& turret lines, repair, repeat after 71 s

or just kill with brute force
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-05 11:22:48
December 05 2016 10:05 GMT
#139
On December 05 2016 18:53 Ganseng wrote:
well i love mech but i feel they went too far this time

out of 10 games played after 3.8 i won 10

tanks seem unbreakable, you defend everything, expand to 4-5 bases, build up a bc fleet, and win

i know i'm only diamond, but 10/10 means something


Keep playing then, you'll hit masters soon with your 10/10 win rate and then you'll understand how broken Zerg Hive tech is vs Mech when you start playing vs competent Zerg players.
reapsen
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany559 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-05 10:15:30
December 05 2016 10:11 GMT
#140
Demotions on ladder this season

There was some discussion/confusion regarding demotions at the start of this season so we wanted to provide some clarification. Last season was the first time that we bootstrapped your off-races to the MMR of your main race due to the introduction of separate MMR per race. This potentially caused players to rank higher than their actual skill level on their off-races. At the start of this season, the boundaries automatically adjusted to the correct values, so many players at the higher levels of the ladder were seeing lower ranks than they did toward the end of last season. We expect player rankings to continue becoming more accurate over time.


Can someone ELI5 to me? I don't get it

Edit: Nvm, this graph explains it all: http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/leagues/1v1/#v=2&r=0&sx=a
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 260
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27270
Sea 15129
Backho 155
Mind 50
Sacsri 20
Noble 16
Bale 14
Icarus 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm116
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1464
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King84
Other Games
summit1g11913
hungrybox459
RuFF_SC248
CosmosSc2 32
Trikslyr31
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2826
BasetradeTV18
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH367
• Light_VIP 63
• practicex 46
• OhrlRock 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1203
• Stunt400
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
10h 35m
Replay Cast
18h 35m
The PondCast
1d 4h
OSC
1d 7h
WardiTV European League
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
Epic.LAN
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Online Event
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
6 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.