Today, we'll be adding most of the changes we’ve been discussing to balance testing. Please check out the changes and let’s get more discussions going where needed.
We would also like to thank everyone for the great discussions regarding what to do with the Cyclone. This was one of those few times where there wasn’t a clear consensus to whether we should keep the Cyclone or revert it, but we agreed with the slight majority of players in that the current version is probably the more helpful option towards pushing Mech play.
Factory AA
One other thing we wanted to discuss regarding the Cyclone AA feedback was Mech AA. As some of you have also pointed out, the Thor is much more of a core option against air in testing. Not only did the Thor receive a buff vs. light air units, but also the armored air units that used to outrange the Thor now have equal or lower range as the Thor.
The main reason why we would like to push the Thor more so than the Cyclone as the core AA option is very simple: We believe the core Mech end game composition should consist of very powerful but less mobile units such as the Thor, Siege Tanks, BCs, etc. This is because the high mobility gameplay option is already provided well through Bio. For example, when being harassed by Mutalisks, I can stim pack and quickly chase them off. Using fast-moving cyclones to deal with them would feel very similar. In contrast, Thors battle Mutalisks in a different way: they need to be in position to really get strong damage against Mutalisks trying to fly in, which is more fitting for the Mech fantasy.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t increase the current effectiveness of the new Cyclone’s AA capabilities as long as it isn’t the main AA option throughout the whole game. We feel that there could be room here to increase its effectiveness, and we’ll start testing out some numbers as per your suggestion. Next balance changes Aside from the potential Cyclone AA damage changes, we would like to take a pass at Ultralisk armor and really focus on tuning of the new Tempest ability. With Ultralisk armor, we can try the popular suggestion of increasing the base armor by 1 point and reducing the armor the upgrade provides by 2 points for a slight buff to the base unit + a nerf to the overall unit after upgrades.
For the Tempest, we would like to ask you guys to help us out on testing this ability against heavy Siege Tank based compositions and Hydra/Lurker based armies.
KR feedback regarding SC2’s main goal
We’ve been seeing a lot of discussion from the KR community on two points: making the game easier, and toning down harassment so that the general pace of the game is slower.
We agree heavily with many players in our global community that SC2 is one of very few games where you are solely responsible for whether you win, or lose, and that these results are tied to the time, dedication, and skill which players put into mastering the game. The feeling of practicing and mastering a part of the game, and directly seeing my personal increase in skill, is truly unlike any other game in the world.
Our main goal for StarCraft 2 is to create the best game of its type that it can ever be, and not necessarily selling more copies of the game or increasing the playerbase. Those are also great secondary goals, but we don’t feel that we should be in a place where we start to hurt the main, most important goal of StarCraft 2.
In regards to harassment, we agree that some cases feel like it’s too much right now. We feel that we’ve taken a pass at the units that seem to have pushed this too much, such as: Adepts, Warp Prisms, and Tankivacs. Also, we’ve taken measures to strengthen defensive units such as Hydralisks (fending off early game harassment attacks) or the defensive based Mech play in general. We’re not saying we’ll hit this feedback perfectly from the start, and that’s why we would really love to encourage you guys to talk about specific changes that are needed rather than talking too much in general. For example, if the Adept specifically needs to be nerfed more in a specific way, of course now is the best time to try out that specific nerf.
Please remember that this is a group effort, and we’re all trying to make the game better by working together. Thanks as always and let’s continue working at it even though we know this isn’t easy!
Poll: What do you think of the Ultralisk armor change?
Good! (234)
76%
Bad! (58)
19%
Neutral. (16)
5%
308 total votes
Your vote: What do you think of the Ultralisk armor change?
"Today, we'll be adding most of the changes we’ve been discussing to balance testing. Please check out the changes and let’s get more discussions going where needed."
What changes is he talking about? Tempest new ability?
Personally I love this update, the Ultralisk change is great, the Tempest ability sounds exciting and buffing Cyclone AA a little bit, without it being the main AA for mech, also sounds very good!
So sick that Blizzard would rather keep the spiriti of sc2 instead of making it easier just to sell more copies. I hope sc2 1v1 stays hardcore, while they also expand the other modes like arcade and co-op to attract the more casual audience.
This is one of the better updates so far! I really agree with the direction of these changes.
Ultralisk change may be too small though Marauder attack nerf.It will still take an insane amount of time to kill a few Ultralisks with bio even with this change.
On October 22 2016 04:14 MockHamill wrote: This is one of the better updates so far! I really agree with the direction of these changes.
Ultralisk change may be too small though Marauder attack nerf.It will still take an insane amount of time to kill a few Ultralisks with bio even with this change.
Don't just think of marauders, it still doubles the damage of Marines vs Ultras, it's a big change. If you decrease it further it's at HotS level and Marines will destroy Ultras again.
Agree with the overarching philosophies. I think the Ultralisk should remain a power house and Cyclone doesn't necessarily need better anti air though.
On October 22 2016 04:15 Bareleon wrote: I wonder if Dayvie doesn't wanna test the Stalker buff yet cause he knows people wont test anything else and just try to cheese every game lol.
Can we also talk about re-designing the Corruptor as well? I feel like it is currently one of the worst designed units in the game at the moment, aside from Swarm Host.
Finally we're getting somewhere. Please don't let the next update just say "we thought about going that direction, instead we're going to keep things exactly the same." THAT'S what's been so disappointing in the past. Based on poll numbers, the VAST number of us LIKE the direction this is headed so please, continue!
If Blizzard doesn't address X unit, they are stupid and ignoring the glaring problems.
Great Blizzard addressed X unit, but they forgot to address Y unit so they are still stupid and ignoring something.
Holy fuck all people, let them focus on a few units at the time. I feel like some people want Blizzard to write an indepth manifesto on every unit and buffs/changes for every single feedback update.
I get it, some units are glaringly unbalanced, and Blizzard needs to fix them, but just because they haven't mentioned it in the update, doesn't mean it isn't being looked at.
edit: Don't get me wrong, its ok to ask them about a specific unit, but don't shit on them if they haven't mentioned it.
So they clarified their stance on what they think mech should be. People complained that the Thor was slow and clunky, but it seems that fits their idea of mech. We definitely won't be getting the Goliath back, but I hope they go through with buffing the Cyclone to almost be something similar.
Disregarding the contents of these updates, I think it's awesome to see this level of communication from the developer of the game. As a TF2 aficionado, I can't help but compare this with how Valve treats that community. Just today I read patch notes where they're removing two of the five most popular maps from the matchmaking map pool, with no explanation at all.
SC2 fans should be happy with Blizzard's communication levels
If you had to pick the least worrisome harass units from a ZvX perspective, you've found them. Adepts are cool. They're very challenging to handle and I'm okay with the vision decrease. That's a nice change that adds risk/reward/planning to the unit without nerfing them. But they aren't the most dangerous harass unit Protoss can field. They aren't even on the same playing field as an oracle.
I've seen everyone, from pro down to silver, fail to scout a build up of 4-5 oracles then BAM, your entire economy and every queen you've ever made or thought about making is dead.
Adepts? Tankivacs?
If Terran wants to harass with tankivacs I'm okay with it. It's widow mines in a three pronged harass that kill me. Tankivacs are relatively slow to develop. You see them coming, they hit you, you respond. Widow mines if not seen the moment they drop from a medivac will incur their terrible terrible damage quota instantly and there's no getting back all those drones.
Sheesh. If you want to tone down harass, maybe pick the units that can end games because of single mistakes made in a moment.
On October 22 2016 04:12 Ej_ wrote: yeah sure buff the fucking anti air of the new cyclones
First off, the Starcraft division is doing a substantially better job of communicating then they probably ever have be it on TL, B.net or even Twitter and Facebook, good job on that.
Very relieved to hear them start to address the overarching problem of LOTV in that harassment is far too strong and it's turning SC2 into a, "If your not Zerg your entire game is spent attacking a mineral line or if you are Zerg your defending a mineral line" scenario instead of small action packed skirmishes across the map, biggest problem being theres a ton of things that incinerate workers in the blink of an eye and...well...workers just don't fight back, so there is little to no "skirmish" feel going on. That was a big failure on the design of LOTV and it's awesome to hear the team acknowledge it.
I still feel like my thoughts for the Oracle would translate into a vastly less punishing but still powerful utility Stargate unit
- Make Pulsar Beam function like a normal attack, not an energy channeled ability, make it markedly less effective vs. light units and more effective in general. Kind of like how Banshees can get a good number of worker kills but not end the game outright, and yet they still pump out respectable DPS to general units, not just workers.
- Increase range of Pulsar Beam by 1 (Or even 2 whatever is necessary) this will allow the Oracle to micro and find sweet spots in enemy AA which almost hard counters the Oracle through the mid game at least and it's a bad dynamic in my opinion (Where if you have a spore crawler and a Queen the Oracle get's almost no worker kills and is kind of bad but if you have a poor read and no spore crawler the Oracle will essentially end the game)
- Redesign Revelation to function more like Parasite from BW (permanent vision from a singular unit)
- Redesign Stasis Ward to cost less mana, but have a smaller radius and only slow, not root. Tldr make it more spammable but weaker
- Oracle now detects right out of the box
More on topic, I was merely offering a thought on the whole, "game ending harassment" subject with that..
New Cylcone mild AA buff is the right move, factory should have powerful units right out of the gates that don't rely on upgrades or gimmicks, they are just strong units. On that same hand, there is no reason to make mech overpowered just to make it viable but it does have to be strong to flush out anything that's OP/other races to learn to counter mech styles that might FEEL overpowered until the pro players figure it out. If mech doesnt feel strong to play, people will never play it, and then mech can never be tuned down with future balance patches resulting in a viable mech and viable bio play style.
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
