Patterns like these are deceisive for if someone is good at certain things and not at others and what priorities and preferences one has.
TL community is not a primary factor for SC2, but a secondary. It could have served as a corrective for Blizzards mistakes (primary factor) but it didn't. Instead wrong flows were intensified.
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Please remember that this is a group effort, and we’re all trying to make the game better by working together. Thanks as always and let’s continue working at it even though we know this isn’t easy!
Group effort? its been 11 months, you left a vacuum from the thor HIP removal, split anti air/ground vehicle uppgrades, raven flat nerfs, buffs to all z/p units including economy while doubling the pace of the game which means faster hive tech and air transition for protoss
Strelok, morrow, sjow, HTOmario, Happy, merz, Goody and among the koreans IMMVP, innovation, Sea, gumiho and every slayers player QUIT PLAYING MECH OR QUIT THE GAME OUTRIGHT
you are very much in the doghouse to us mr.kim you owe us a lot if you want people to play your game again, you ruined our mech communities, personalities and opportunity to win tournaments which has been economicly a disaster for full time pro players that played mech (korea)
the Thor is much more of a core option against air in testing.
The thor has never been a core option, its too clunky and succeptible to spells like neural/abduct, the unit is so slow it is 100% doomed if you lose a fight, you cant retreat and thus lose games whereas cyclones can escape, you should make cyclones anti armored with superior range and speed, but thors anti light with superior splash damage so players can play a fast paced game or a macrogame, you are forcing turtling with this rhetoric.
Thors battle Mutalisks in a different way: they need to be in position to really get strong damage against Mutalisks trying to fly in, which is more fitting for the Mech fantasy.
Mech fantasy?! we are fitting a square peg in a round hole for five years and now you are patronising us despite you having to nerf ravens and split air/ground vehicle dmg uppgrades as a countermeasure because you felt mech was too successful?
im sorry but this is fuel for the fire that mech is not a legitimate style which it naturally isnt since you artificially killed it in LOTV, we are trying to provide feedback and cooperate but its hard when we are apparantly chasing dreams and fantasies? sure thing, ok.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t increase the current effectiveness of the new Cyclone’s AA capabilities as long as it isn’t the main AA option throughout the whole game. We feel that there could be room here to increase its effectiveness, and we’ll start testing out some numbers as per your suggestion.
Just make the lock on automatic, nobody is ever going to use your manual lock on for 10dps against carriers/broods with like 70-100dps, or remove the lockon system and make it like the marine shooting ground and air.
For the Tempest, we would like to ask you guys to help us out on testing this ability against heavy Siege Tank based compositions and Hydra/Lurker based armies.
Protoss does not need tempest to handle siege tanks or hydra/lurker armies, this unit was implemented to tacle swarmhost spore forests and now the unit acts as an anti capitol ship kiting unit, its great for PvP and PvT vs battlecruisers and does NOT need a place against mech, protoss is doing FINE with their current ground units, stop trying to choke mech in its crib and let protoss players show you how "strong" mech is even without going air first.
In regards to harassment, we agree that some cases feel like it’s too much right now. We feel that we’ve taken a pass at the units that seem to have pushed this too much, such as: Adepts, Warp Prisms, and Tankivacs.
A pass? you only reverted siege tank drop, you buffed queens/spores so they could deal with protoss harassment and terran mid/lategame while doing nothing about the reaper grenade, invincible nydus or adept shades which should all be targetable or removed as they induce anxiety and frustrate the players ALWAYS derailing the game from being a tug of war into being a pain threshold game, you should revert warp prism range and t1 zerg drops in the least, the game feels horrible compared to HOTS due to it.
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
I made a video to try to understand why Starcraft 2 does not work anymore, then this game is excellent.
I added English subtitles to gather the opinion of everyone, the French community has appreciated the video, I wonder if this is the case for everyone, because if we are all agreed , maybe we can change things and make Starcraft 2 while his interest.
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
At what level are you playing? (not trying to bash, just to have a better understanding)
I play at high masters level and anytime you play against a ling based composition with mech you can't really attack frontally like a brute because you're just gonna get surrounded and crushed. Wether it's mutas or hydras behind it. You have to pull him out of position with liberators, drops or banshees. Then, you can take a position that allows you to shell one of his bases, forcing him to engage into your setup. If the guy uses lings and/or banes, go for 4 factories with 2 reactors and pump out mines. Mine/tanks are good because he won't be able to detonate them with stray lings, and you'll be able to have drilling claws very quickly. Keep some hellbats close to your tanks to avoid wacky surrounds, and when the zerg engages the mines will blow up most of the lings and banes, while the tanks finish them off. From there it's only hydras vs tanks hellbats, which doesn't work.
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
At what level are you playing? (not trying to bash, just to have a better understanding)
I play at high masters level and anytime you play against a ling based composition with mech you can't really attack frontally like a brute because you're just gonna get surrounded and crushed. Wether it's mutas or hydras behind it. You have to pull him out of position with liberators, drops or banshees. Then, you can take a position that allows you to shell one of his bases, forcing him to engage into your setup. If the guy uses lings and/or banes, go for 4 factories with 2 reactors and pump out mines. Mine/tanks are good because he won't be able to detonate them with stray lings, and you'll be able to have drilling claws very quickly. Keep some hellbats close to your tanks to avoid wacky surrounds, and when the zerg engages the mines will blow up most of the lings and banes, while the tanks finish them off. From there it's only hydras vs tanks hellbats, which doesn't work.
Same rank but I've been having lot more trouble vs hydra than you apparently
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
At what level are you playing? (not trying to bash, just to have a better understanding)
I play at high masters level and anytime you play against a ling based composition with mech you can't really attack frontally like a brute because you're just gonna get surrounded and crushed. Wether it's mutas or hydras behind it. You have to pull him out of position with liberators, drops or banshees. Then, you can take a position that allows you to shell one of his bases, forcing him to engage into your setup. If the guy uses lings and/or banes, go for 4 factories with 2 reactors and pump out mines. Mine/tanks are good because he won't be able to detonate them with stray lings, and you'll be able to have drilling claws very quickly. Keep some hellbats close to your tanks to avoid wacky surrounds, and when the zerg engages the mines will blow up most of the lings and banes, while the tanks finish them off. From there it's only hydras vs tanks hellbats, which doesn't work.
Same rank but I've been having lot more trouble vs hydra than you apparently
Well i dunno maybe i just played bad players. But the most important thing i'd say is not to get tricked into building cyclones, they're worthless and a huge waste of money
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
At what level are you playing? (not trying to bash, just to have a better understanding)
I play at high masters level and anytime you play against a ling based composition with mech you can't really attack frontally like a brute because you're just gonna get surrounded and crushed. Wether it's mutas or hydras behind it. You have to pull him out of position with liberators, drops or banshees. Then, you can take a position that allows you to shell one of his bases, forcing him to engage into your setup. If the guy uses lings and/or banes, go for 4 factories with 2 reactors and pump out mines. Mine/tanks are good because he won't be able to detonate them with stray lings, and you'll be able to have drilling claws very quickly. Keep some hellbats close to your tanks to avoid wacky surrounds, and when the zerg engages the mines will blow up most of the lings and banes, while the tanks finish them off. From there it's only hydras vs tanks hellbats, which doesn't work.
Same rank but I've been having lot more trouble vs hydra than you apparently
Well i dunno maybe i just played bad players. But the most important thing i'd say is not to get tricked into building cyclones, they're worthless and a huge waste of money
I've been playing against my friends and consensus seems to be hydra is preeeety good
Yea cyclones are decent early game to get 1-2 for map control and light haras but other than that, fairly worthless. It is fairly cancer in tvt and early tvp though
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:53 JackONeill wrote: It's good to look at the ultra, but the armor isn't the reason it's broken in any way.
Transfuses and queen snowball throughout the game is the reason. Zerg late game units can't be too powerfull because of queens. Broodlords can't be buffed because of queens. Ultras can't be too strong because of queens. The AA range buff made it even more cancerous since you can't shoot with queens at vikings from under BLs.
I fail to see how when terran start to play defensive and turtly with mech it's the end of the world, but zerg having to litterally camp all game long while massing queens to have unkillable ultras it's fine.
Regarding the hydra, i've played the test map quite a lot and it really feels fine against mech.
No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
At what level are you playing? (not trying to bash, just to have a better understanding)
I play at high masters level and anytime you play against a ling based composition with mech you can't really attack frontally like a brute because you're just gonna get surrounded and crushed. Wether it's mutas or hydras behind it. You have to pull him out of position with liberators, drops or banshees. Then, you can take a position that allows you to shell one of his bases, forcing him to engage into your setup. If the guy uses lings and/or banes, go for 4 factories with 2 reactors and pump out mines. Mine/tanks are good because he won't be able to detonate them with stray lings, and you'll be able to have drilling claws very quickly. Keep some hellbats close to your tanks to avoid wacky surrounds, and when the zerg engages the mines will blow up most of the lings and banes, while the tanks finish them off. From there it's only hydras vs tanks hellbats, which doesn't work.
Same rank but I've been having lot more trouble vs hydra than you apparently
Well i dunno maybe i just played bad players. But the most important thing i'd say is not to get tricked into building cyclones, they're worthless and a huge waste of money
I've been playing against my friends and consensus seems to be hydra is preeeety good
Yea cyclones are decent early game to get 1-2 for map control and light haras but other than that, fairly worthless. It is fairly cancer in tvt and early tvp though
How are your tvp going?
Nah man you don't wanna build cyclones even to take map control in TvZ, they're SO BAD. The only case where they're good is against roach comps, which every zerg who played the test map more than twice knows not to build in TvZ.
In TvP, I've not played since the patch where the disruption sphere got cut, so before that the tempest was so fucking op i played a GM that just did mass phenix into tempest and there was absolutely nothing i could do. Now with the stun i don't really know, as long as the cyclone still sucks at AA i'm sure that mass stuns will completely break any attempt to go mech. Having an AoE ability on the tempest is so insanely stupid i still can't believe it made it past "internal testing" (rofl)
On October 25 2016 11:53 jinjin5000 wrote: [quote]
Aggressive mech timings seem to not really work once hydralisks are out
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
On October 25 2016 15:49 eviltomahawk wrote: [quote] No, armor is the reason Ultras have been tipped into being nearly broken. They weren't as much of a problem in HotS.
On equal upgrades, Marines went from dealing 3 damage to Ultras with Chitinous Plating to now dealing just 1 damage. Marauders went from dealing 17 to 20 damage to now only dealing 10 damage.on equal upgrades against Ultras with Chitinous Plating. That's a severe drop in attack damage against Ultras. Ultras are three times as durable against Marines and nearly twice as durable against Marauders. That's not a subtle change.
The proposed balance change is a good step in the right direction between the HotS and LotV values for Ultra armor. Marines will deal 2 damage against them, and Marauders will deal 12 damage. It's mostly the Marauder attack change to two projectiles that's hampering their effectiveness against Ultralisks.
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
At what level are you playing? (not trying to bash, just to have a better understanding)
I play at high masters level and anytime you play against a ling based composition with mech you can't really attack frontally like a brute because you're just gonna get surrounded and crushed. Wether it's mutas or hydras behind it. You have to pull him out of position with liberators, drops or banshees. Then, you can take a position that allows you to shell one of his bases, forcing him to engage into your setup. If the guy uses lings and/or banes, go for 4 factories with 2 reactors and pump out mines. Mine/tanks are good because he won't be able to detonate them with stray lings, and you'll be able to have drilling claws very quickly. Keep some hellbats close to your tanks to avoid wacky surrounds, and when the zerg engages the mines will blow up most of the lings and banes, while the tanks finish them off. From there it's only hydras vs tanks hellbats, which doesn't work.
Same rank but I've been having lot more trouble vs hydra than you apparently
Well i dunno maybe i just played bad players. But the most important thing i'd say is not to get tricked into building cyclones, they're worthless and a huge waste of money
I've been playing against my friends and consensus seems to be hydra is preeeety good
Yea cyclones are decent early game to get 1-2 for map control and light haras but other than that, fairly worthless. It is fairly cancer in tvt and early tvp though
How are your tvp going?
Nah man you don't wanna build cyclones even to take map control in TvZ, they're SO BAD. The only case where they're good is against roach comps, which every zerg who played the test map more than twice knows not to build in TvZ.
In TvP, I've not played since the patch where the disruption sphere got cut, so before that the tempest was so fucking op i played a GM that just did mass phenix into tempest and there was absolutely nothing i could do. Now with the stun i don't really know, as long as the cyclone still sucks at AA i'm sure that mass stuns will completely break any attempt to go mech. Having an AoE ability on the tempest is so insanely stupid i still can't believe it made it past "internal testing" (rofl)
I build 2 to just poke around and take down misc stuff fast like stray queen or spine in middle of forming. It's pretty safe to build one
I'm not so sure about tvp. If you go mech, your primary counter is archon immortal chargelot which doesn't really take much damage from tanks and since it's lotv, protoss economy is faster than terran so they will be taking initiative. I'm not so sure if tank hellbat mine can handle mass amount of gateway+triple robo+ adept harass that well since ou will be behind on supply on top of tempest stuns...
I guess turtling to bc is best bet but those take even longer than carriers
Early cyclone is pretty strong so maybe that can be used to delay protoss 3rd while you get tank count up?
On October 25 2016 19:45 JackONeill wrote: [quote]
Depends on how the game played out. If the guy went for speedling straight into hydras on 3 bases and you went for an enormous tank/BF hellion push, you're gonna destroy him. On the other hand, if he went for roaches => hydras, yeah it's gonna be hard not to get kited and eventually die to a concave.
But that's fair i suppose.
Vipers are the real reason why agressive mech gets completely terrible the moment T3 hits.
[quote]
That has very little to do with armor, but a lot to do with marauder having split attacks. And you're missing the point : it's absolutely fine to have ultras be very good against bio. It's one of LOTV's main perk/achievement. However, the terrible design of queen snowball mass transfuse makes the 8 armor ultra OP. The fact that zerg can/has to camp on 3 bases with 10 queens and rush ultras to perma heal them is the main reason why the matchup is so stupid.
If transfuse was 75 energy, queens could only heal twice in a row, instead of four. It'd make queens supported ultra deathballs much weaker, and would make ultra strategies much weaker on very low eco.
Not really because we'll split hydra handles hellbat tank with limg bane support well until vipers come out
I don't think so, but we'll see what the pros do once the test map is integrated to the game. Splitted hydras only work where you can take a concave and any mech push is about abusing a position somehow. Especially since the test map tanks will 2 shot hydras with +1 regardless of their armor upgrade.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Medivac boost => muta regen, and muta regen + medivac boost = photon overcharge. I don't think we ever needed these in SC2.
Are you sure? I am having quite a lot of trouble vs pure hydra skipping roach with ling bane support. I find that I can't quite deal with the long range ad it being able to kite and delay to viper if necessary
At what level are you playing? (not trying to bash, just to have a better understanding)
I play at high masters level and anytime you play against a ling based composition with mech you can't really attack frontally like a brute because you're just gonna get surrounded and crushed. Wether it's mutas or hydras behind it. You have to pull him out of position with liberators, drops or banshees. Then, you can take a position that allows you to shell one of his bases, forcing him to engage into your setup. If the guy uses lings and/or banes, go for 4 factories with 2 reactors and pump out mines. Mine/tanks are good because he won't be able to detonate them with stray lings, and you'll be able to have drilling claws very quickly. Keep some hellbats close to your tanks to avoid wacky surrounds, and when the zerg engages the mines will blow up most of the lings and banes, while the tanks finish them off. From there it's only hydras vs tanks hellbats, which doesn't work.
Same rank but I've been having lot more trouble vs hydra than you apparently
Well i dunno maybe i just played bad players. But the most important thing i'd say is not to get tricked into building cyclones, they're worthless and a huge waste of money
I've been playing against my friends and consensus seems to be hydra is preeeety good
Yea cyclones are decent early game to get 1-2 for map control and light haras but other than that, fairly worthless. It is fairly cancer in tvt and early tvp though
How are your tvp going?
Nah man you don't wanna build cyclones even to take map control in TvZ, they're SO BAD. The only case where they're good is against roach comps, which every zerg who played the test map more than twice knows not to build in TvZ.
In TvP, I've not played since the patch where the disruption sphere got cut, so before that the tempest was so fucking op i played a GM that just did mass phenix into tempest and there was absolutely nothing i could do. Now with the stun i don't really know, as long as the cyclone still sucks at AA i'm sure that mass stuns will completely break any attempt to go mech. Having an AoE ability on the tempest is so insanely stupid i still can't believe it made it past "internal testing" (rofl)
I build 2 to just poke around and take down misc stuff fast like stray queen or spine in middle of forming. It's pretty safe to build one
I'm not so sure about tvp. If you go mech, your primary counter is archon immortal chargelot which doesn't really take much damage from tanks and since it's lotv, protoss economy is faster than terran so they will be taking initiative. I'm not so sure if tank hellbat mine can handle mass amount of gateway+triple robo+ adept harass that well since ou will be behind on supply on top of tempest stuns...
I guess turtling to bc is best bet but those take even longer than carriers
Early cyclone is pretty strong so maybe that can be used to delay protoss 3rd while you get tank count up?
Wow, i guess we play very differently because i'm always glad whenever a protoss decides to go ground against mech. Because you can build liberators instead of massing vikings, which forces a decent amount of stalkers, which are destroyed by tanks/cyclones/mines/thors/hellbats. Thors do pretty well against every ground unit, and i feel like the new tank really punishes any positionnal error from protoss.
New cyclone is decent against protoss, especially with medivacs to drop around. And if he starts building stalkers you're rubbing your hands together "yeah, build them stalkers and go blink yeaaah" because you know they get destroyed by everything you'll be building later.
However, phenix openers completely destroy mech. Not only do they prevent any kind of frontal attack, but they also are very good at harass. Then protoss goes straight into tempest, and because of superior economy you can't really catch up with thors and vikings and end up loosing to a 6 bases protoss with canons everywhere when you're barely starting to mine your fourth. The only counter i found to this was to never stop building reactored marines and go for a 3 bases push with like 20 unstimmed and unupgraded marines just to snipe phenixes lifting your stuff, because you can't really have the 15 viking flock or the 5 thor stack that really punishes it. And mines are actually horrible against phenixes because he'll simply fly over your army and the detonations will hurt you more than him.
Please remember that this is a group effort, and we’re all trying to make the game better by working together. Thanks as always and let’s continue working at it even though we know this isn’t easy!
Group effort? its been 11 months, you left a vacuum from the thor HIP removal, split anti air/ground vehicle uppgrades, raven flat nerfs, buffs to all z/p units including economy while doubling the pace of the game which means faster hive tech and air transition for protoss
Strelok, morrow, sjow, HTOmario, Happy, merz, Goody and among the koreans IMMVP, innovation, Sea, gumiho and every slayers player QUIT PLAYING MECH OR QUIT THE GAME OUTRIGHT
you are very much in the doghouse to us mr.kim you owe us a lot if you want people to play your game again, you ruined our mech communities, personalities and opportunity to win tournaments which has been economicly a disaster for full time pro players that played mech (korea)
the Thor is much more of a core option against air in testing.
The thor has never been a core option, its too clunky and succeptible to spells like neural/abduct, the unit is so slow it is 100% doomed if you lose a fight, you cant retreat and thus lose games whereas cyclones can escape, you should make cyclones anti armored with superior range and speed, but thors anti light with superior splash damage so players can play a fast paced game or a macrogame, you are forcing turtling with this rhetoric.
Thors battle Mutalisks in a different way: they need to be in position to really get strong damage against Mutalisks trying to fly in, which is more fitting for the Mech fantasy.
Mech fantasy?! we are fitting a square peg in a round hole for five years and now you are patronising us despite you having to nerf ravens and split air/ground vehicle dmg uppgrades as a countermeasure because you felt mech was too successful?
im sorry but this is fuel for the fire that mech is not a legitimate style which it naturally isnt since you artificially killed it in LOTV, we are trying to provide feedback and cooperate but its hard when we are apparantly chasing dreams and fantasies? sure thing, ok.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t increase the current effectiveness of the new Cyclone’s AA capabilities as long as it isn’t the main AA option throughout the whole game. We feel that there could be room here to increase its effectiveness, and we’ll start testing out some numbers as per your suggestion.
Just make the lock on automatic, nobody is ever going to use your manual lock on for 10dps against carriers/broods with like 70-100dps, or remove the lockon system and make it like the marine shooting ground and air.
For the Tempest, we would like to ask you guys to help us out on testing this ability against heavy Siege Tank based compositions and Hydra/Lurker based armies.
Protoss does not need tempest to handle siege tanks or hydra/lurker armies, this unit was implemented to tacle swarmhost spore forests and now the unit acts as an anti capitol ship kiting unit, its great for PvP and PvT vs battlecruisers and does NOT need a place against mech, protoss is doing FINE with their current ground units, stop trying to choke mech in its crib and let protoss players show you how "strong" mech is even without going air first.
In regards to harassment, we agree that some cases feel like it’s too much right now. We feel that we’ve taken a pass at the units that seem to have pushed this too much, such as: Adepts, Warp Prisms, and Tankivacs.
A pass? you only reverted siege tank drop, you buffed queens/spores so they could deal with protoss harassment and terran mid/lategame while doing nothing about the reaper grenade, invincible nydus or adept shades which should all be targetable or removed as they induce anxiety and frustrate the players ALWAYS derailing the game from being a tug of war into being a pain threshold game, you should revert warp prism range and t1 zerg drops in the least, the game feels horrible compared to HOTS due to it.
Gumiho hasn't quit and was using mech as recently as last week in the Olimoleague. Edit: I should say successfully using mech.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
On October 26 2016 01:35 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like i'm obligated to remind u all that muta speed buff and regen was directly an answer to medivak boost.
Muta regen was an answer to widow mines.
Because mutas getting oneshotted by mines need regen of course.
EPT
