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New spoiler policy?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Message from the staff on spoilers
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
391 Posts
October 03 2016 17:44 GMT
#1
Hello,

for a very long time I used to come to TL, open the tourneys threads and based on "recommended" ratings I picked vods to watch.

However, now I'm disheartened as it seems that the policy of putting spoilers in thread names/front page has changed, and it kind of ruined KeSPA Cup for me.

Am I the only one being upset with this change? By now I have discovered a sc2links website from which I can get vods instead, but I would still prefer not needing to avoid TL until I catch up with current events.

At least before the KeSPA Cup, there should have been an announcement that the results of group winners, and of the whole thing, will be visible on front page.

Thank you for understanding,
~seo
Kaizor
Profile Joined May 2015
Singapore909 Posts
October 03 2016 17:49 GMT
#2
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.
Hit me up if you need chinese translations. soO fighting !!
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 17:50:51
October 03 2016 17:50 GMT
#3
On October 04 2016 02:44 seopthi wrote:
Am I the only one being upset with this change?

No, I dislike it as well. I'm not saying I don't understand the reasons behind the change, but I dislike it.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 17:54:08
October 03 2016 17:52 GMT
#4
Tbh the policy hasn't really changed. There never was a no spoiler policy. It's just that the writers are putting up the recaps much faster.
choconet
Profile Joined July 2016
23 Posts
October 03 2016 17:53 GMT
#5
i understand TL staff's reasoning for it but I also understand your reasoning.

I think a possible middleground is a toggle for people on displaying tourney news? It would be off by default and therefore not affect anyone.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 17:56 GMT
#6
TL exists primarily for people in American and European timezones. Since it is usually not possible for people in those time zones to watch Korean events live, I would imagine there would be more demand for a thread with VODs than a thread that recaps the matches and spoils the results in the title.
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
391 Posts
October 03 2016 17:59 GMT
#7
I understand TL reasoning, respect it, and can simply use another side to get vods from.

I am only a little sad that I was looking towards KeSPA Cup so much and now I don't even feel like watching it.

The timing of this change was unfortunate and should have been at least announced on front page.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 18:00 GMT
#8
I think something like this would be better:

Title: Kespa Cup Semifinals and Finals VODS (instead of "Neeb Wins Kespa Cup")

Stats vs Neeb Set 1 VOD
Stats vs Neeb Set 2 VOD
Stats vs Neeb Set 3 VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Stats vs Neeb Set 4 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [Stats vs Neeb Set 5 VOD (if necessary)] +


TY vs Trap Set 1 VOD
TY vs Trap Set 2 VOD
TY vs Trap Set 3 VOD
+ Show Spoiler [TY vs Trap Set 4 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [TY vs Trap Set 5 VOD (if necessary)] +



Finals Set 1 VOD
Finals Set 2 VOD
Finals Set 3 VOD
Finals Set 4 VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Finals Set 5 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [Finals Set 6 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [Finals Set 7 VOD (if necessary)] +


+ Show Spoiler [Recap] +
We started the Korean Starcraft year with an 0-4 demolition of Korea in NationWars; we bookend 2016 with a similar humbling. Throughout the year, there’s been a constant back and forth debate on the pros and cons of the WCS system. One side claimed that it would strengthen the WCS region; that the region lock would give greater incentive to foreigners looking to make a name for themselves in this new look Starcraft scene. The other argued that the Korean scene would be weakened, and that foreign achievements would be meaningless without the base line of comparison that is exposure to the best players in the world.

While it’s still too early to make a call on the latter point, it’s becoming harder and harder for doubters to deny the former. We’ve had constant rumblings suggesting that the scales have shifted: the quality of play in WCS; the online records of many of the top foreign pros against Korean opposition; the currently foreigner-favoured scorecard of SHOUTcraft Kings. However, it’s only now that KeSPA Cup has given us a demonstration of just how much the gap has closed.

Throughout 2016, Neeb’s been more threat than contender in the foreign scene; a player guaranteed to place highly, but also one seemingly fated to fall short time and time again. It’s arguable that his win here supercedes the rest of his achievements this year combined. There’s simply no precedent for Neeb’s achievements here in Starcraft 2; Jinro is the only foreigner who’s even come close—seven long, long years of unchallenged supremacy for Korean Starcraft in Seoul. So while there’ll undoubtedly be excitement about the possibilities of repeat success at BlizzCon, or arguments about what this means for the scene going forwards, let’s just sit back for now. Enjoy the moment. Relish in the delight of the unpredictable.

[image loading]





(P)Stats and (P)Neeb kicked off the day with our first semifinal, and although the KT man took game 1 with some clean chargelot-archon play, using phoenix lifts to counter Neeb’s disruptors, it rapidly became clear that he was outgunned. In his post-final interview, Neeb admitted to not preparing directly for Stats, instead relying on the same build he’s used day in, day out on ladder. That showed as he displayed the same rock solid fundamentals throughout his PvP day, simply getting more out of his units than his opponents.

Throughout the week, the Korean casters would exclaim “This foreigner has Korean micro!”; Neeb’s control during KeSPA Cup has been top tier stuff. Cleaner and crisper than any of the protosses we’ve seen, with none of the infamous nerve issues that he’s suffered from throughout the year, he blazed past Stats with ease in games 2 and 3, outplaying the KT protoss in the disruptor-to-disruptor matchup. Game 4 was a similar slugfest on King Sejong Station, but Stats’ reticence to attack left the set spiralling to an end-game scenario. Both players transitioned to tempests, but a decision to attack Neeb’s fifth base proved rash for Stats. Initially, it looked like an even trade, but with Neeb’s closer rally distances, Stats was always under time pressure. Bleeding out units during his retreat, and with no economy left to speak of, he was forced to tap out.

The day soon went from bad to worse for KT. (T)TY effortlessly blew past (P)Trap with an aggressive 1-1-1 on New Gettysburg, but Trap quickly responded with his own mass gateway cheese on KSS, while a second storm-powered win on Frost left him standing on the cusp of making his first premier finals for 19 months. Finally though, TY rediscovered some of the form that drove him to yesterday’s 3-0 shutout over Zest. TY dominated the game from start to finish, zoning Trap out of his third base on Frozen Temple with liberators before advanced ballistics signalled the death knell for the Jin Air protoss.

Dasan Station though was a whole different issue. Trap put on pressure right from the start—denying TY’s depot and reactor on the ramp with a pylon rush, before mass gateway units swarmed over the terran’s main and natural. TY initially seemed to have held the push, but poor scan discipline allowed Trap’s DTs to clean up and take the game for the protoss.

If our first semifinal of the day was a controlled victory for Neeb, and our second was a dirty knife fight with Trap emerging victorious, then the final was nothing short of a slaughter. It became readily apparent that Trap was hopelessly outclassed by Neeb in PvP, with the American protoss’ disruptor play proving far too much to handle. Games 1-3 all passed by in the blink of an eye, and while Trap’s early game on Apotheosis gave him an early lead, there was an inevitability to Neeb gradually hauling in his advantage.

Down on army size and disruptor count, Neeb put on a clinic of ‘How to PvP’, chipping away at Trap’s superior force bit by bit. If you want a simple example of Neeb’s superiority, you only need look at both players’ handling of their disruptors. Trap’s bunched disruptors proved to be his downfall, with several heavy hits cancelling out his lead and irrevocably turning the tide of battle. With no more options to turn to, Trap was forced to GG out, leaving Neeb as the first foreign SC2 champion in a Korean tournament.

Writer: thecrazymunchkin
Pictures: Kenzi
Editor: thecrazymunchkin
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
October 03 2016 18:01 GMT
#9
Maybe once the pageviews go down enough they might reconsider.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2577 Posts
October 03 2016 18:02 GMT
#10
On October 04 2016 02:53 choconet wrote:
i understand TL staff's reasoning for it but I also understand your reasoning.

I think a possible middleground is a toggle for people on displaying tourney news? It would be off by default and therefore not affect anyone.

They tried that. It doesn't work. Every time someone forgot to flag an article, people with the "no spoiler" flag got pissed. And of course there are lots of non-staff who create threads to talk about how someone won a game or to congratulate a tournament winner, and you can't expect admins to spend all their time policing which headlines need a spoiler flag and which don't.

The way I see it is, you wouldn't go on Sports Illustrated after a game you wanted to watch later. It is not generally expected that a sports news site abstain from reporting news on the sport it covers, or give its readers the ability to filter it out. Just skip TL for a day, and come back after you've caught up.
The frumious Bandersnatch
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
October 03 2016 18:03 GMT
#11
It's not really a change in their spoiler policy and more this particular tournament. Normally there is 1 recap after the tournament is finished (if they do one at all). This time they had individual recaps for every day for whatever reason.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 18:04 GMT
#12
On October 04 2016 03:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
The way I see it is, you wouldn't go on Sports Illustrated after a game you wanted to watch later. It is not generally expected that a sports news site abstain from reporting news on the sport it covers, or give its readers the ability to filter it out. Just skip TL for a day, and come back after you've caught up.


Sports Illustrated isn't a website for people in America and Europe who want to watch Korean and Japanese baseball, it generally exists to serve people who can watch games live with no issues.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:06:35
October 03 2016 18:04 GMT
#13
I feel like there is no need to pick one side of the fence. Give a grace period of 24-72 hours. In that period guard the wording of titles. Refrain from using an image of the winner in the title image of an article that will be displayed on the front page. Simply omitting the winners name from the thread title isn't going to kill esports. Then after x amount of time the grace period expires and people can title as they wish.

If random users on Reddit can accomplish this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
I have complete faith in the staff to as well.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
October 03 2016 18:05 GMT
#14
TL is not a news site for me, it's a forum. Big difference to a real news site like ESPN_esports for example.

Most users come here for the tournament threads, strategy and patch discussions and of course the stream links and vods.

There may be a ton of lurkers who just want to see news, but there are many other sites for that and just making spoiler free titles like on reddit should be easy enough. We are not talking about stopping to post news, just asking for a spoiler option or spoiler free titles. No harm done and it does not slow down the news at all.

I see only pros and no cons :/.

Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 03 2016 18:05 GMT
#15
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
October 03 2016 18:05 GMT
#16
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.
When I think of something else, something will go here
cha0
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada504 Posts
October 03 2016 18:09 GMT
#17
This is probably just one of the many changes that will be coming soon resulting from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/514345-wizards-warriors-and-magic-a-strategic-partnership
RIP, end of an era, seems fitting to coincide with the end of Korean starcraft as well.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 18:09 GMT
#18
On October 04 2016 03:05 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.


That's because other sports have most people watching in the same time zone, not all the way around the world.

This is a website for English-speakers to watch matches that are aired for the Korean time zone. Real sports analogies don't apply.

In BW, this was obvious, and there weren't spoilers. At some point, because there were so many NA and EU timezone matches, people started wanting instant results threads with spoilers since they watched the matches live. And that's fine! But applying the same logic to Korean matches makes no sense.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 03 2016 18:10 GMT
#19
On October 04 2016 03:05 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.


I find this to be a strange comparison, since community members here use the site for so much more than people use a news site for.

Like, if I want to check my pms because someone sent me some idea for a programming project, I can't because there might be spoilers up on the front page or side bar? I can't make or read forum posts? I can't even actually try to go and find the link the vods without being spoiled?

This isn't solely a news site.

And anyways I understand if the people who run the site want it to primarily be a news site. That's fine. But there seems to be some argument that it's too much of a hassle to have people actually click a link, which takes like a tenth of a second, to read the results. Just put the result inside the article! It's a tenth of a second of inconvenience vs completely ruining someone's experience.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:12:26
October 03 2016 18:11 GMT
#20
The best would be to still do those recaps, but with vague titles like "KeSPA Cup winner crowned" or "KeSPA Cup 2016 comes to an end".

Edit : agree with what travis says in the previous post. Just click on the damn link.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
October 03 2016 18:13 GMT
#21
I hate it. Completely spoiled Kespa Cup for me too. Good thing I was blinded with happiness at seeing Neeb win.

Their reasoning is silly too. This is really more of a forum to me.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:13:57
October 03 2016 18:13 GMT
#22
On October 04 2016 03:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The best would be to still do those recaps, but with vague titles like "KeSPA Cup winner crowned" or "KeSPA Cup 2016 comes to an end".


This was brought up. The people who have more clout seemed to think that this was too much of an inconvenience for those who sought the results.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
October 03 2016 18:15 GMT
#23
On October 04 2016 03:13 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 03:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The best would be to still do those recaps, but with vague titles like "KeSPA Cup winner crowned" or "KeSPA Cup 2016 comes to an end".


This was brought up. The people who have more clout seemed to think that this was too much of an inconvenience for those who sought the results.

I think that's silly, but hey, I'm not the guy in charge. Just giving my opinion.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
October 03 2016 18:17 GMT
#24
On October 04 2016 03:09 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 03:05 blade55555 wrote:
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.


That's because other sports have most people watching in the same time zone, not all the way around the world.

This is a website for English-speakers to watch matches that are aired for the Korean time zone. Real sports analogies don't apply.

In BW, this was obvious, and there weren't spoilers. At some point, because there were so many NA and EU timezone matches, people started wanting instant results threads with spoilers since they watched the matches live. And that's fine! But applying the same logic to Korean matches makes no sense.

Agree, doesn't make sense to spoil the results when the timezone plays a huge difference. A grace period seems appropriate considering TL is a community, not just a news site. In our current BW coverage, we still don't use spoilers and I would hate to think that I spoiled the tournament for a reader.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
October 03 2016 18:17 GMT
#25
On October 04 2016 03:13 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 03:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The best would be to still do those recaps, but with vague titles like "KeSPA Cup winner crowned" or "KeSPA Cup 2016 comes to an end".


This was brought up. The people who have more clout seemed to think that this was too much of an inconvenience for those who sought the results.

If I just want the results of something I don't go this far, I stop on Liquipedia.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
I wasbanned fromthis
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
113 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:19:38
October 03 2016 18:18 GMT
#26
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
October 03 2016 18:19 GMT
#27
On October 04 2016 03:18 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
Freedom is speech is great.
What an interesting topical discussion...

(exorbitant sarcasm)... TL needs a website that has nothing but results... ... ... (liquipedia maybe?)

Trouble with kids is they need to grow up.

wah im seeing spoilers, it flucuates my mood, ahmmerrrgerrd.. no minds.

The fuck did I just read?
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:22:17
October 03 2016 18:20 GMT
#28
I'm very upset that TL gives spoilers in headlines. I want to come here to read about what is going on with the game, with future patches, with team rosters, not to have tournament results ruined for me! I can understand why they may no longer have a spoiler checkbox but can they at least adhere to a "no spoiler" policy with front page headline and images? It's not that hard for someone interested in a headline to click the link to find out who won!
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
391 Posts
October 03 2016 18:22 GMT
#29
As OP, I am not even upset about the change itself; I find the main problem in not announcing it on the front page and damaging KeSPA Cup experience to many -- as could have been easily expected
FO-nTTaX
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Johto4927 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:43:15
October 03 2016 18:42 GMT
#30
It was announced on the front page ages ago, seems no one reads announcements (to be fair, it was a long time ago)
In fact there hasn't been a no spoiler policy since 2012

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/314832-tl-frontpage-redesign-and-event-coverage-changes
Administrator@FO_nTTaX | FO-nTTaX.de | 0xff0000.dev | Senior Lead Liquipedia Developer
"Nimm es. Es ist nicht viel, aber es kommt von Herzen. Vergiss mich nicht!"
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:49:56
October 03 2016 18:48 GMT
#31
On October 04 2016 03:42 FO-nTTaX wrote:
It was announced on the front page ages ago, seems no one reads announcements (to be fair, it was a long time ago)
In fact there hasn't been a no spoiler policy since 2012

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/314832-tl-frontpage-redesign-and-event-coverage-changes

Although there was the "hide spoilers" option back then to be fair. Back then Plexa said:

On February 24 2012 14:44 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2012 14:43 MountainGoat wrote:
Yes! The spoiler whiners lose! The war is over!

I wouldn't view it as that, rather now both sides win since those who want to avoid spoilers can, and those who don't get what they want.


This is no longer the case.

Of course the change was not recent, but KeSPA Cup has brought to light how problematic it is for Korean events in which international fans are heavily interested in.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
October 03 2016 18:49 GMT
#32
So one of the prevailing thoughts in this thread is "If you don't want spoilers, don't go to the website". Is that really what TL wants? For us to not come to the website? I wouldn't think so. What are the serious arguments for not having spoiler-free headlines on the website? It's not like the headline frequency is that high that someone can't flag or modify spoiler content before it's published. What is it, once or twice a day at most?
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
October 03 2016 18:53 GMT
#33
On October 04 2016 03:48 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 03:42 FO-nTTaX wrote:
It was announced on the front page ages ago, seems no one reads announcements (to be fair, it was a long time ago)
In fact there hasn't been a no spoiler policy since 2012

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/314832-tl-frontpage-redesign-and-event-coverage-changes

Although there was the "hide spoilers" option back then to be fair. Of course the change was not recent, but KeSPA Cup has brought to light how problematic it is for Korean events in which international fans are heavily interested in.

Well, KeSPA Cup was an entirely new situation when it comes to news. First, the only coverage for Korean events is usually previews with silly puns in the title, with no specific recaps. Second this was the first tournament this year, and the only I recall at all, which got an individual recap for every day. This is usually not a thing TL does even for multi-day tournaments.

It was so... different.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
October 03 2016 18:58 GMT
#34
Ok, so TL's argument is, "Everyone watches these events live now". Well, I'm not one of them. I view the VODs on a spoiler-free website the following evening. I can't stay up and catch them live when I have to work five hours later! And like Musicus said, they had the "Hide Spoilers" option back then, so that worked as a compromise. But now that is gone. So now you alienate those of us who cannot watch events live that happen in the middle of the night. I guess if we're in the minority and the rest of your viewership doesn't care, then we have no choice but to not go to TL. That sucks.
Isualin
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1903 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 19:03:28
October 03 2016 18:59 GMT
#35
I dislike it as well since i come here multiple times everyday, even before watching every single match. I was surprised to see a headline like "Neeb wins KeSPA Cup Group A with 4-0 score; Zest knocks out ByuN" a week ago.

I can totally understand why they are doing it but TL was my go to website for finding vods of events, i will use reddit or youtube/twitch if i really don't want to get spoiled from now. Although, reddit isn't any better. I could understand Neeb was the kespa cup champion since /r/starcraft was filled with posts like "Didn't think I would ever see something like this in Korea" or "Remember when people were laughing at Aligulac because it ranked Neeb in the top 10?"

P.S: I normally don't miss on events this big so it is not a big problem for me. But i didn't have access to internet at all times for the last week, so i had to watch kespa cup from my cellphone later
| INnoVation | The literal god TY | ByuNjwa | LRSL when? |
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33331 Posts
October 03 2016 19:02 GMT
#36
On October 04 2016 03:05 travis wrote:
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.

haha
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
October 03 2016 19:04 GMT
#37
So there is no solution? No compromise? This is not something that will change?
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17664 Posts
October 03 2016 19:08 GMT
#38
On October 04 2016 03:01 207aicila wrote:
Maybe once the pageviews go down enough they might reconsider.

yep, use reddit/twitch/youtube to find VODs instead
"Expert" mods4ever.com
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
October 03 2016 19:12 GMT
#39
On October 04 2016 03:59 Isualin wrote:I can totally understand why they are doing it but TL was my go to website for finding vods of events, i will use reddit or youtube/twitch if i really don't want to get spoiled from now. Although, reddit isn't any better.

I use sc2links, they do a really good job of posting spoiler-free VODs quickly for GSL, SSL, Proleague, and other major tournaments.
Ignorant prodigy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States385 Posts
October 03 2016 19:13 GMT
#40
I'm just visiting way less now.
If I was paying to put up ads I'd probably not like the removal of this feature.. since people like myself will simply avoid the site until they can catch up on the vods
http://www.twitch.tv/ignorantprodigy playing masters random with no hotkeys......big pimpin'
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 03 2016 19:32 GMT
#41
On October 04 2016 04:02 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 03:05 travis wrote:
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.

haha


why is this funny, am I wrong?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
October 03 2016 19:37 GMT
#42
On October 04 2016 04:32 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 04:02 Waxangel wrote:
On October 04 2016 03:05 travis wrote:
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.

haha


why is this funny, am I wrong?

I'm guessing he means that there's no compromise that will be reached?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
October 03 2016 19:57 GMT
#43
On October 04 2016 02:44 seopthi wrote:
Hello,

for a very long time I used to come to TL, open the tourneys threads and based on "recommended" ratings I picked vods to watch.

However, now I'm disheartened as it seems that the policy of putting spoilers in thread names/front page has changed, and it kind of ruined KeSPA Cup for me.

Am I the only one being upset with this change? By now I have discovered a sc2links website from which I can get vods instead, but I would still prefer not needing to avoid TL until I catch up with current events.

At least before the KeSPA Cup, there should have been an announcement that the results of group winners, and of the whole thing, will be visible on front page.

Thank you for understanding,
~seo


Dude, the "recommended" ratings have been irrelevant for very long time now, you certainly missed a lot of fun games anyway.

as for spoilers, safest way now is to directly go to the youtube/twitch channels, and avoiding TL.net...
Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16670 Posts
October 03 2016 20:26 GMT
#44
On October 04 2016 03:10 travis wrote:
I find this to be a strange comparison, since community members here use the site for so much more than people use a news site for.

Like, if I want to check my pms because someone sent me some idea for a programming project, I can't because there might be spoilers up on the front page or side bar? I can't make or read forum posts? I can't even actually try to go and find the link the vods without being spoiled?

This isn't solely a news site.

And anyways I understand if the people who run the site want it to primarily be a news site. That's fine. But there seems to be some argument that it's too much of a hassle to have people actually click a link, which takes like a tenth of a second, to read the results. Just put the result inside the article! It's a tenth of a second of inconvenience vs completely ruining someone's experience.

+1. i subscribe to this perspective.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
BretZ
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1510 Posts
October 03 2016 20:28 GMT
#45
On October 04 2016 04:32 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 04:02 Waxangel wrote:
On October 04 2016 03:05 travis wrote:
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.

haha


why is this funny, am I wrong?


this is a really bad look guys
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16670 Posts
October 03 2016 20:34 GMT
#46
On October 04 2016 05:28 BretZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 04:32 travis wrote:
On October 04 2016 04:02 Waxangel wrote:
On October 04 2016 03:05 travis wrote:
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.

haha

why is this funny, am I wrong?

this is a really bad look guys

nah, i think you're being hypercritical. let them have their internal shouting matches. when u pull back the curtain on almost any product .. its ugly.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Ignorant prodigy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States385 Posts
October 03 2016 20:40 GMT
#47
On October 04 2016 05:28 BretZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 04:32 travis wrote:
On October 04 2016 04:02 Waxangel wrote:
On October 04 2016 03:05 travis wrote:
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.

haha


why is this funny, am I wrong?


this is a really bad look guys


par for course
http://www.twitch.tv/ignorantprodigy playing masters random with no hotkeys......big pimpin'
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
October 03 2016 21:27 GMT
#48
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


TL staff doesn't know what they are doing.
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5500 Posts
October 03 2016 21:52 GMT
#49
The fact that this has its own thread and there have been countless people complaining about the constant day 0 spoilers speaks for itself. I can't really add much else, everything's been said for the most part.

I will say that TL used to have a pretty decent rule, whether it was unwritten or not I can't remember but I do remember seeing somewhere in the past that it was not acceptable to put spoilers in titles within 1-2 days of an event taking place and most people would follow that guideline to allow people to watch the games. Lets face it a large majority of people here cannot watch the games live, for me they generally start around 4 am and I cannot stay up that late to watch starcraft.

I am really disappointed in TL staff that this is even an issue. Common sense in my opinion would be to not spoil games that just happened in the titles of threads that cannot be avoided aside from not coming to teamliquid at all, which doesn't seem fair to me.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Anopob
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada39 Posts
October 03 2016 21:55 GMT
#50
The reward gained by including explicit spoilers in titles/the front page doesn't seem worth the price of excluding members from the community, even if it's only for a little bit of time.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2577 Posts
October 03 2016 21:58 GMT
#51
On October 04 2016 06:55 Anopob wrote:
The reward gained by including explicit spoilers in titles/the front page doesn't seem worth the price of excluding members from the community, even if it's only for a little bit of time.

This makes sense to me. I've changed my mind. After reading through this, I think a well-defined embargo period (maybe 24 hours?) before spoiler pictures go up on the front page, and a re-introduction of the old rules that would get you warned or banned for posting spoilers seem like a good compromise. The site retains its role as a news source for people looking for results, and those who visit for other reasons can continue to do so without risking spoiling Korean tourney results from the night before.
The frumious Bandersnatch
LoveYourself
Profile Joined October 2015
6 Posts
October 03 2016 22:00 GMT
#52
This decision is idiotic.

TeamLiquid is going to lose trafic. You'll see.
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." Aldous Huxley
HugoBallzak
Profile Joined November 2015
700 Posts
October 03 2016 23:30 GMT
#53
The concept of complaining about spoilers for a competitive event like you would for a film or tv show... Like... just don't go to sports news sites if you dvr'ed the game.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 23:59:27
October 03 2016 23:58 GMT
#54
On October 04 2016 03:10 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 03:05 blade55555 wrote:
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.


I find this to be a strange comparison, since community members here use the site for so much more than people use a news site for.

Like, if I want to check my pms because someone sent me some idea for a programming project, I can't because there might be spoilers up on the front page or side bar? I can't make or read forum posts? I can't even actually try to go and find the link the vods without being spoiled?

This isn't solely a news site.

And anyways I understand if the people who run the site want it to primarily be a news site. That's fine. But there seems to be some argument that it's too much of a hassle to have people actually click a link, which takes like a tenth of a second, to read the results. Just put the result inside the article! It's a tenth of a second of inconvenience vs completely ruining someone's experience.

I'm against any sort of spoiler prevention stuff for two main reasons.

One, the burden should be on the person watching. If you want to watch a live event later on without knowing who wins, you can forgo going to TL or Reddit until you do. That's the inconvenience of not watching something live, it works like that in every aspect of sports and entertainment.

Two, efficiency. Someone who needs to not be spoiled has about a thousand ways to get spoiled. TL is just one site but there are so many points of failure (event headlines, threads, interview topics, front page picture, top threads, etc) that trying to prevent all of these for a small percentage of users who can just either not come to TL until they watched is silly.

Instead of putting all that effort and annoyance onto the TL staff (trust me when I had to do this spoiler shit for front page it was annoying af) how about the people that don't want to be spoiled simply don't come to TL for 24 hours or however long it takes to watch it? You are asking for the world to change its behavior (and all that effort still might not be effective) when really it should be just the few that want to watch differently to change theirs.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
391 Posts
October 04 2016 00:14 GMT
#55
^ Main point why I made this thread was not to complain about TL deciding to show spoilers.

It was about making this change unexpectedly just before KeSPA Cup. From now, I will simply just not go to TL if I'm not up to date with vods and I'm semi-ok with that. The problem is that the KeSPA Cup I was looking forward so much has been somewhat ruined, because the spoilers were unexpected.
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
October 04 2016 00:17 GMT
#56
I agree with op.

Not being in a kr friendly timezone thread titles spoiled the entirety of the Kespa Cup for me.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5500 Posts
October 04 2016 00:24 GMT
#57
I think part of the reason I have such a big problem with this is that teamliquid wasn't always like this. There was generally some sort of grace period like 24 hours where it was unacceptable to post spoilers in titles without getting a temp ban. Correct me if I'm wrong on that but I'm pretty sure that's the way it was.

And then when teamliquid got an update there was a "spoiler free" button. Now there's just nothing. No option but to not visit the site and that pisses me off since teamliquid has been my favorite site since I signed up here and there are a million reasons to come here besides check the results of games.

The thing that irks me the most perhaps is that this could all be solved by spoiler free titles. I don't think that is something that is overburdening on a writer. Just put something like "Kespa cup winner decided" but for some reason the people writing the articles have a huge problem with this even though its clearly alienating a percentage of the members here.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
October 04 2016 00:24 GMT
#58
I hate this change, and I am consideron to not even enter the site anymore.

Even if this is a "news portal", a lot of things can't be watched live and most of us decide to "watch them later" but still check other info.

For instance I wanted to see news about the newest patch, ok, but I didn't want to know about Neebing winning KeSPA Cup, because I wasn't able to watch the semis and finals yet.

IMO it is quite moronic reason to say "It's a news portal", because there are some "news" we try to not look at until we consider it is appropriate, like tournament results and such.
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
October 04 2016 00:25 GMT
#59
Just start reporting it as spoilers. There's an option for it.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19225 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 00:30:21
October 04 2016 00:29 GMT
#60
On October 04 2016 02:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Tbh the policy hasn't really changed. There never was a no spoiler policy. It's just that the writers are putting up the recaps much faster.

False. There used to be a check box to have spoiler free mode on and before that there were spoiler free news titles.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
October 04 2016 00:32 GMT
#61
On October 04 2016 08:58 Hot_Bid wrote:

Instead of putting all that effort and annoyance onto the TL staff (trust me when I had to do this spoiler shit for front page it was annoying af) how about the people that don't want to be spoiled simply don't come to TL for 24 hours or however long it takes to watch it? You are asking for the world to change its behavior (and all that effort still might not be effective) when really it should be just the few that want to watch differently to change theirs.


I agree, those who want to avoid spoilers must do the effort.
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
CannonKingPrime
Profile Joined August 2016
57 Posts
October 04 2016 00:32 GMT
#62
Seriously, the picture choice was over the top and unnecessary. Pretty disappointed.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 00:41:26
October 04 2016 00:40 GMT
#63
On October 04 2016 09:29 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 02:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Tbh the policy hasn't really changed. There never was a no spoiler policy. It's just that the writers are putting up the recaps much faster.

False. There used to be a check box to have spoiler free mode on and before that there were spoiler free news titles.


Recently I meant. Spoiler free news title stopped being a thing back in 2012, and the check box disappeared circa 2014/2015 (though it ceased being useful way before then).
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
October 04 2016 00:42 GMT
#64
On October 04 2016 09:29 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 02:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Tbh the policy hasn't really changed. There never was a no spoiler policy. It's just that the writers are putting up the recaps much faster.

False. There used to be a check box to have spoiler free mode on and before that there were spoiler free news titles.

Both of you are somewhat correct. There used to be a no-spoiler policy, but it was discontinued in 2012. The only thing that has changed recently about KeSPA cup is that writers are putting up the recaps much faster.
Moderator
Kaoriyu
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada276 Posts
October 04 2016 00:44 GMT
#65
Other esport forums/communities post news of tournament winners/events without spoiler-free tags all the time. Why is it such a big deal on TL? Enlighten me, I would love to hear perspectives.
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
391 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 00:48:26
October 04 2016 00:47 GMT
#66
It is a big deal because it was unexpected with KeSPA Cup, which damaged the experience to many.

From now, I will simply avoid TL if I'm not up to date, which is ok. I'm just upset that I was looking forward to KeSPA Cup so much and now I don't even feel like watching it.
kugHop
Profile Joined January 2016
Luxembourg44 Posts
October 04 2016 01:10 GMT
#67
If you want to see the VOD's without spoilers, you just need to head to Youtube where you can nowadays find the entire series without spoilers and you can't even find out how many games were played because they upload a vidoe for every potential game in order to hide spoilers.
Yes, TL is a forum. And by being a forum, an article which "spoils" a result has a place here as it announces news. It tells the people that want to inform themselves how something ended which I think is what TL is for.
As I said, I have never checked TL in order to watch an "unspoiled" series because it is not the site to do so, in my opinion of course.
...and on the final day, our Lord and Savior, Maru, and his disciples sOs and Rogue appeared before us and said: Don't worry my loyal fans for Proleague will forever be our Kingdom!"
AaBbCc
Profile Joined February 2016
New Zealand110 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 02:37:57
October 04 2016 02:22 GMT
#68
I see merit on both sides of this topic but lets be real here for a second. If we consider esports to be the same as other sports then those providing coverage have a right to post spoilered results.

If I miss a NBA game live and I want to avoid seeing the result, I don't go straight to nba.com or the sports section of my news app, then complain when I see who won.

IMO its the responsibility of the individual to avoid spoilers until they see the game.

In saying this I did like it when the hide spoilers button was here. That kinda suited everyone..

When I woke up this morning the first thing I did was open teamliquid to check if Neeb had won Kespa cup. #passion-recharged.

Keep up the good work teamliquid
Life is a meaningless interruption to an otherwise peaceful non-existence.
CannonKingPrime
Profile Joined August 2016
57 Posts
October 04 2016 02:25 GMT
#69
On October 04 2016 10:10 kugHop wrote:
If you want to see the VOD's without spoilers, you just need to head to Youtube where you can nowadays find the entire series without spoilers and you can't even find out how many games were played because they upload a vidoe for every potential game in order to hide spoilers.
Yes, TL is a forum. And by being a forum, an article which "spoils" a result has a place here as it announces news. It tells the people that want to inform themselves how something ended which I think is what TL is for.
As I said, I have never checked TL in order to watch an "unspoiled" series because it is not the site to do so, in my opinion of course.

Uhh...

To avoid spoilers on YouTube I have to to learn the title format for the day's games so I can access the video without looking at the page. That way I can search "group a first match set1" and open it using the keyboard. Then I have to make sure to not look at the sidebar, where the top suggestion is inevitably the winner interview. Also I have to be careful not to mouse over the video itself where the progress bar (not to mention the duration indicator) can reveal the match length and remove all suspense. An errant glance at the preview image for a winner's interview or the title of any match but the first makes the outcome of almost every game obvious.

Twitch would be great for this except that their streaming of previously recorded videos is atrocious. It is the best for spoilers because you can just watch the stream. All you have to be careful of is to not look at the progress bar towards the end where it can become clear that the event ends soon overall.
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
October 04 2016 02:27 GMT
#70
On October 04 2016 03:10 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 03:05 blade55555 wrote:
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.


I find this to be a strange comparison, since community members here use the site for so much more than people use a news site for.

Like, if I want to check my pms because someone sent me some idea for a programming project, I can't because there might be spoilers up on the front page or side bar? I can't make or read forum posts? I can't even actually try to go and find the link the vods without being spoiled?

This isn't solely a news site.

And anyways I understand if the people who run the site want it to primarily be a news site. That's fine. But there seems to be some argument that it's too much of a hassle to have people actually click a link, which takes like a tenth of a second, to read the results. Just put the result inside the article! It's a tenth of a second of inconvenience vs completely ruining someone's experience.



I agree with this.

Didn't there used to be a box you could check if you didn't want spoilers? How hard is that to offer as an option?
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 02:51:15
October 04 2016 02:36 GMT
#71
Well, both Monk and Waxangel have responded. They do not seem to have any interest in changing the policy. I don't know who else makes decisions around here but I guess a guy in the 2012 thread was ultimately right, "Yes! The spoiler whiners lose! The war is over!". Hell, we lost and didn't even know it.

Although, I swear there were less spoiler titles and images just a few months ago. In fact, I just looked through the last four months of Community News and I don't see any spoilers for any tournaments aside from the recent posts about Kespa Cup. No mention of GSL winner, SSL winner, or Proleague winners. In fact, the only thing I could find were the two posts titled:

[Interview] 2016 SSL Season 2 Champion
[Interview] GSL S2 Champion "Exploding Wrists"

Now unless "Exploding Wrists" is a nickname I'm not aware of, neither of these spoil it for those of us who haven't seen the matches yet.

So how can you say that the only thing that has changed is that the results are being posted faster? Results weren't posted for any of the above events. And they were MAJOR EVENTS! Or am I missing something here? I went through this forum:

http://www.teamliquid.net/news/community

Is the plan moving forward to spoil all tournaments? Winner of GSL groups, SSL groups, Proleague matches, etc?
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
October 04 2016 04:47 GMT
#72
Jesus, does TL even know how to make money?

SOLUTION: put the spoiler free feature on TL+

Terran forever | Maru hater forever
Ingvar
Profile Joined April 2015
Russian Federation421 Posts
October 04 2016 07:02 GMT
#73
I'm so tired of this argument. TL was really straightforward about this: no spoiler policy results in less traffic. If you are unhappy about this, your only choice is not coming here to reduce traffic. If you missed 1000 discussions about it, it's your problem and getting spoiled gives you a lesson. It takes 5 seconds to find a way to get VoDs without coming to TL - do it.
MMA | Life | Classic | Happy | Team Empire | Team Spirit
AbouSV
Profile Joined October 2014
Germany1278 Posts
October 04 2016 08:22 GMT
#74
On October 04 2016 13:47 Noonius wrote:
Jesus, does TL even know how to make money?

SOLUTION: put the spoiler free feature on TL+


Ahah, evil. I like it.


When I'm looking for VoD without spoilers, I still come here, go to the tournament thread, and clic the link to the VoDs (or go to liquipedia if need be), all of that while squinting and hiding most of the screen. Old fashion but quite efficient once you get a hand of it (or an eye?).
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
October 04 2016 08:29 GMT
#75
Don't visit TL until you have seen the vods which can be found on sites like sc2links spoiler free.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
October 04 2016 09:24 GMT
#76
On October 04 2016 13:47 Noonius wrote:
Jesus, does TL even know how to make money?

SOLUTION: put the spoiler free feature on TL+


So smart
Neosteel Enthusiast
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 09:59:16
October 04 2016 09:57 GMT
#77
Promise + Show Spoiler +
i will read all the thread and edit in if required/inspired


I'd like to add to the "tl is a news site"

if i hadn't followed kespa cup, and i don't watch evrything at all, i would not have opened tl on the front page to avoid spoiling myself the result "trigger" before i see the games and yes ruin 90% of the "excitement".

You can even still use tl, just open a pre saved link on another page .. and pm at will spoiler free.

Spoilering the front page? It would be nice, it is not possible and tl still enforces spoilers on all the details .. never the big picture, it simply shouldn't! that would be bad journalism.

What would a spoiler respectful time be? a day, a week.. lol!

This particular "event" makes it easy (unlike in more grey areas) .. this event's reach will not wait for passer by-s. anyway
(did you see how i did not spoil it? i just said an event...?)

The news is the news, don't shoot the messenger.
"not enough rights"
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 10:22:41
October 04 2016 10:19 GMT
#78
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.

Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 04 2016 10:21 GMT
#79
On October 04 2016 13:47 Noonius wrote:
Jesus, does TL even know how to make money?

SOLUTION: put the spoiler free feature on TL+

You're evil!
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
October 04 2016 11:26 GMT
#80
On October 04 2016 19:19 Plexa wrote:
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.



Props for trying!
My vote: + Show Spoiler +
don't care really
i saw spoilers and had to type in thrread.. must .. type ,

i'm a grown up who takes care of himself, tl is about as cool as can be (spoiler such a result (kespa final result) would make no sense, i'm fine generally with tl spoilers/outlook for news in place), or i would not be on it.
Again, sometimes i avoid tl front page .. manually
i would not use the no spoiler feature
i think it is cool of you if you provide it, and lets face it you should provide such a feature (a mirror front page with cartoon emotes hiding any thread text or picture..

simply add the feature to thread creation: "this thread contains spoilers" tick box.. option set by default would be "my thread and its tittle are spoilering results")).. and you can untick it if the content does not ..

presto! the user learns to assume responsibility for what he posts and you have your spoilers.
Again, i would not use such a feature, but i like the idea of lots of horses riding spoilering info :D ahahahahahahahaha
"not enough rights"
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 12:29:14
October 04 2016 12:22 GMT
#81
On October 04 2016 19:19 Plexa wrote:
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.



Thanks for the reply and the hard work Plexa!

Basically I would like to go to TL to look for streams, recommended matches and especially vod links without being spoiled. Others might just want to check their PMs.

Obviously I won't click on a news article or recap about a tournament if I don't want to know the result, so as long is the picture and the title don't spoil anything it's fine. So if it just says "KeSPA Cup Final Day recap" on the frontpage for example and then when I click on it I get the real title, that would be cool.

Not sure about the picture tbh.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
slit
Profile Joined March 2013
Spain212 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 13:01:14
October 04 2016 12:56 GMT
#82
On October 04 2016 11:36 jake1138 wrote:
I swear there were less spoiler titles and images just a few months ago. In fact, I just looked through the last four months of Community News and I don't see any spoilers for any tournaments aside from the recent posts about Kespa Cup. No mention of GSL winner, SSL winner, or Proleague winners.


Exactly my thoughts when entering here last week to check the VODs. I freaked out, even posted about this on the LR.... Got the ByuN group totally spoiled from the title alone. Way to go!
It wasn't like this before (for a couple years or so that I'm around here), writers releasing articles faster or not. It seemed like they spoiled it on purpose
Now I've watched the rest of the tournament through sc2links, even thinking about donating to the guy.

EDIT: I've just read the Plexa post, good stuff. Thanks!
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16670 Posts
October 04 2016 13:00 GMT
#83
On October 04 2016 13:47 Noonius wrote:
Jesus, does TL even know how to make money?
SOLUTION: put the spoiler free feature on TL+

this is a good idea. i highly recommend TL does this.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
October 04 2016 14:19 GMT
#84
TL is where I go to see what is happening with SC2. The Community News is what is most important to me. I come here at least once a week to read "This week in StarCraft 2" or any other interesting article that gets published. I've been coming here more often recently to check out "Community Feedback Updates" and other upcoming patch discussions. I guess I could go to battle.net forums for that but I prefer to see the discussions here.

I don't know that we need a "no spoilers" checkbox like we had before. I realize it is a lot of work to implement something like that. A simple policy of not having spoilers in Community News titles and in the picture would be sufficient to satisfy me. But others may want something more. Thanks for listening.
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 14:39:22
October 04 2016 14:28 GMT
#85
On October 04 2016 19:21 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 13:47 Noonius wrote:
Jesus, does TL even know how to make money?

SOLUTION: put the spoiler free feature on TL+

You're evil!


now for the awkward bit. When do I get paid?
Terran forever | Maru hater forever
NEEDZMOAR
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1277 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-04 14:57:06
October 04 2016 14:56 GMT
#86
On October 04 2016 21:22 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 19:19 Plexa wrote:
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.



Thanks for the reply and the hard work Plexa!

Basically I would like to go to TL to look for streams, recommended matches and especially vod links without being spoiled. Others might just want to check their PMs.

Obviously I won't click on a news article or recap about a tournament if I don't want to know the result, so as long is the picture and the title don't spoil anything it's fine. So if it just says "KeSPA Cup Final Day recap" on the frontpage for example and then when I click on it I get the real title, that would be cool.

Not sure about the picture tbh.


this pretty much. Thanks Plexa for talking about this! Very much appreciated.

Somebody else suggested a spoiler filter, it could be set to off as standard but easy to toggle.
Damusson
Profile Joined December 2014
Canada54 Posts
October 04 2016 15:59 GMT
#87
On October 04 2016 19:19 Plexa wrote:
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.


Thanks for the reasoned response on this Plexa. It is much appreciated! To be honest, I do understand TL's decision to go with the "spoilered" news posts, and I'm OK with that even though I'd prefer no spoilers. If that's what is best for TL, then you gotta do what you gotta do.

Personally, I think what I would like to see is to keep the results in the posts on the Tourneys forum in spoiler tags. These posts are a great (probably the best) place to get information like the event times, brackets, VoDs, recommended games, etc (I couldn't check these for Kespa Cup because the results weren't in spoiler tags, though I think they were near the end). And I have no problem book marking Tourneys (or Strategy, Single Player, Fan Clubs, etc) and going straight there. Additionally, perhaps a toggle to hide/unhide the side bar(s) if that's possible? That way, an ill-fated glance at General on the side doesn't reveal what happened in ongoing events while browsing these other forums.

To me that seems like a good compromise. TL can keep up with the stellar coverage on front page / General / News. And users who don't wish to have results revealed can toggle off the side bars in advance, then go straight to Tourneys, Strategy, or other forums.

If the toggle isn't possible, then I think just keeping the results in the Tourneys page in spoilers tags is the best solution. Usually I can keep myself from glancing at the side (though not always ).
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5500 Posts
October 04 2016 19:50 GMT
#88
On October 04 2016 19:19 Plexa wrote:
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.


Thank you.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Zulu23
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany132 Posts
October 04 2016 19:59 GMT
#89
I was also very dissappointed about the Spoiler of the kespa Cup winner...
I wanted to watch the vods yesterday but there was no Point After the winner was revealed here.
Fran_
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1024 Posts
October 04 2016 20:08 GMT
#90
Thanks Plexa!
NEEDZMOAR
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1277 Posts
October 04 2016 21:40 GMT
#91
On October 05 2016 04:59 Zulu23 wrote:
I was also very dissappointed about the Spoiler of the kespa Cup winner...
I wanted to watch the vods yesterday but there was no Point After the winner was revealed here.



to be fair, the games were amazing and you can still get a lot of entertainment value out of them
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
October 04 2016 21:42 GMT
#92
this is why TL is so badass.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
October 05 2016 01:20 GMT
#93
OMG Plexa thanks a lot, honestly the old fashion with the Spiler Option working would be good.
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13972 Posts
October 05 2016 02:00 GMT
#94
On October 04 2016 19:19 Plexa wrote:
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.


wasn't there just that hide spoilers button in 2012? what was wrong with that?
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 05 2016 02:50 GMT
#95
On October 05 2016 11:00 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 19:19 Plexa wrote:
Okay so this has been a hot button issue for a while now. Formally, we've had a policy of allowing spoilers in news/thread titles for years, we've just been slow to post news so it's never been much of an issue. However, every time we're on time with posting news we're getting a lot of backlash from people not expecting to be spoiled. That's a fair point given that most of the time TL is a spoiler free place naturally, even though that's not the intent or design.

So here's what we're going to do about it. We're not going to ignore the people who are complaining about spoilers and we're going to reintroduce a spoiler-free TL experience by the start of Blizzcon (October 28th). I can't be specific about what form this will take as we haven't nailed anything down, but I've been furiously working out formulating a solution that will make everyone happy. If you'd like to leave some feedback on what you'd like out of a spoiler-free TL (aside from the obvious "no spoilers") then that'd be very much appreciated. Precisely, any comments about how you use TL (or would use TL) when spoilers are hidden would help guide the final form of the spoiler free TL.


wasn't there just that hide spoilers button in 2012? what was wrong with that?


It was a pain to maintain, and article names and thumbnails weren't spoiled correctly fairly often iirc.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 03:44:36
October 05 2016 03:44 GMT
#96
There were also something like a total of seven and a half people using it, all of whom are now complaining here. Double that, even!
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
shabby
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway6402 Posts
October 05 2016 05:22 GMT
#97
Agree that its too bad. I get the point of not going to TL when something is going on, and I try not to - but at the same time I oftentimes look for VODs at TL, meaning I have to go into the threads. Searching on youtube spoils everything, and not everything is on twitch.
Jaedong, Gumibear, Leenock, Byun
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3392 Posts
October 05 2016 07:59 GMT
#98
So I read Neeb wins kespa cup on the sidebar
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1612 Posts
October 05 2016 08:55 GMT
#99
No spoilers button back pleeeeaaaase!
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
October 05 2016 09:49 GMT
#100
On October 05 2016 16:59 riotjune wrote:
So I read Neeb wins kespa cup on the sidebar


If I recall correctly the old spoiler button removed the topics from the sidebar as well

Terran forever | Maru hater forever
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3351 Posts
October 05 2016 09:57 GMT
#101
TL.net has been my homepage in almost 6 years, been avoiding it the entire Kespa Cup. Thanks for the change of policy, it was much needed.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
jake1138
Profile Joined September 2011
United States82 Posts
October 08 2016 07:12 GMT
#102
We may be a minority here that want a "no spoiler" policy and/or feature but we use this site just the same and I'm excited to see what Plexa and company comes up with as a compromise. Those that don't care about spoilers shouldn't care that we do. ;-)
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