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New spoiler policy?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Message from the staff on spoilers
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
393 Posts
October 03 2016 17:44 GMT
#1
Hello,

for a very long time I used to come to TL, open the tourneys threads and based on "recommended" ratings I picked vods to watch.

However, now I'm disheartened as it seems that the policy of putting spoilers in thread names/front page has changed, and it kind of ruined KeSPA Cup for me.

Am I the only one being upset with this change? By now I have discovered a sc2links website from which I can get vods instead, but I would still prefer not needing to avoid TL until I catch up with current events.

At least before the KeSPA Cup, there should have been an announcement that the results of group winners, and of the whole thing, will be visible on front page.

Thank you for understanding,
~seo
Kaizor
Profile Joined May 2015
Singapore909 Posts
October 03 2016 17:49 GMT
#2
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.
Hit me up if you need chinese translations. soO fighting !!
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24236 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 17:50:51
October 03 2016 17:50 GMT
#3
On October 04 2016 02:44 seopthi wrote:
Am I the only one being upset with this change?

No, I dislike it as well. I'm not saying I don't understand the reasons behind the change, but I dislike it.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 17:54:08
October 03 2016 17:52 GMT
#4
Tbh the policy hasn't really changed. There never was a no spoiler policy. It's just that the writers are putting up the recaps much faster.
choconet
Profile Joined July 2016
23 Posts
October 03 2016 17:53 GMT
#5
i understand TL staff's reasoning for it but I also understand your reasoning.

I think a possible middleground is a toggle for people on displaying tourney news? It would be off by default and therefore not affect anyone.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 17:56 GMT
#6
TL exists primarily for people in American and European timezones. Since it is usually not possible for people in those time zones to watch Korean events live, I would imagine there would be more demand for a thread with VODs than a thread that recaps the matches and spoils the results in the title.
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
393 Posts
October 03 2016 17:59 GMT
#7
I understand TL reasoning, respect it, and can simply use another side to get vods from.

I am only a little sad that I was looking towards KeSPA Cup so much and now I don't even feel like watching it.

The timing of this change was unfortunate and should have been at least announced on front page.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 18:00 GMT
#8
I think something like this would be better:

Title: Kespa Cup Semifinals and Finals VODS (instead of "Neeb Wins Kespa Cup")

Stats vs Neeb Set 1 VOD
Stats vs Neeb Set 2 VOD
Stats vs Neeb Set 3 VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Stats vs Neeb Set 4 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [Stats vs Neeb Set 5 VOD (if necessary)] +


TY vs Trap Set 1 VOD
TY vs Trap Set 2 VOD
TY vs Trap Set 3 VOD
+ Show Spoiler [TY vs Trap Set 4 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [TY vs Trap Set 5 VOD (if necessary)] +



Finals Set 1 VOD
Finals Set 2 VOD
Finals Set 3 VOD
Finals Set 4 VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Finals Set 5 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [Finals Set 6 VOD (if necessary)] +

+ Show Spoiler [Finals Set 7 VOD (if necessary)] +


+ Show Spoiler [Recap] +
We started the Korean Starcraft year with an 0-4 demolition of Korea in NationWars; we bookend 2016 with a similar humbling. Throughout the year, there’s been a constant back and forth debate on the pros and cons of the WCS system. One side claimed that it would strengthen the WCS region; that the region lock would give greater incentive to foreigners looking to make a name for themselves in this new look Starcraft scene. The other argued that the Korean scene would be weakened, and that foreign achievements would be meaningless without the base line of comparison that is exposure to the best players in the world.

While it’s still too early to make a call on the latter point, it’s becoming harder and harder for doubters to deny the former. We’ve had constant rumblings suggesting that the scales have shifted: the quality of play in WCS; the online records of many of the top foreign pros against Korean opposition; the currently foreigner-favoured scorecard of SHOUTcraft Kings. However, it’s only now that KeSPA Cup has given us a demonstration of just how much the gap has closed.

Throughout 2016, Neeb’s been more threat than contender in the foreign scene; a player guaranteed to place highly, but also one seemingly fated to fall short time and time again. It’s arguable that his win here supercedes the rest of his achievements this year combined. There’s simply no precedent for Neeb’s achievements here in Starcraft 2; Jinro is the only foreigner who’s even come close—seven long, long years of unchallenged supremacy for Korean Starcraft in Seoul. So while there’ll undoubtedly be excitement about the possibilities of repeat success at BlizzCon, or arguments about what this means for the scene going forwards, let’s just sit back for now. Enjoy the moment. Relish in the delight of the unpredictable.

[image loading]





(P)Stats and (P)Neeb kicked off the day with our first semifinal, and although the KT man took game 1 with some clean chargelot-archon play, using phoenix lifts to counter Neeb’s disruptors, it rapidly became clear that he was outgunned. In his post-final interview, Neeb admitted to not preparing directly for Stats, instead relying on the same build he’s used day in, day out on ladder. That showed as he displayed the same rock solid fundamentals throughout his PvP day, simply getting more out of his units than his opponents.

Throughout the week, the Korean casters would exclaim “This foreigner has Korean micro!”; Neeb’s control during KeSPA Cup has been top tier stuff. Cleaner and crisper than any of the protosses we’ve seen, with none of the infamous nerve issues that he’s suffered from throughout the year, he blazed past Stats with ease in games 2 and 3, outplaying the KT protoss in the disruptor-to-disruptor matchup. Game 4 was a similar slugfest on King Sejong Station, but Stats’ reticence to attack left the set spiralling to an end-game scenario. Both players transitioned to tempests, but a decision to attack Neeb’s fifth base proved rash for Stats. Initially, it looked like an even trade, but with Neeb’s closer rally distances, Stats was always under time pressure. Bleeding out units during his retreat, and with no economy left to speak of, he was forced to tap out.

The day soon went from bad to worse for KT. (T)TY effortlessly blew past (P)Trap with an aggressive 1-1-1 on New Gettysburg, but Trap quickly responded with his own mass gateway cheese on KSS, while a second storm-powered win on Frost left him standing on the cusp of making his first premier finals for 19 months. Finally though, TY rediscovered some of the form that drove him to yesterday’s 3-0 shutout over Zest. TY dominated the game from start to finish, zoning Trap out of his third base on Frozen Temple with liberators before advanced ballistics signalled the death knell for the Jin Air protoss.

Dasan Station though was a whole different issue. Trap put on pressure right from the start—denying TY’s depot and reactor on the ramp with a pylon rush, before mass gateway units swarmed over the terran’s main and natural. TY initially seemed to have held the push, but poor scan discipline allowed Trap’s DTs to clean up and take the game for the protoss.

If our first semifinal of the day was a controlled victory for Neeb, and our second was a dirty knife fight with Trap emerging victorious, then the final was nothing short of a slaughter. It became readily apparent that Trap was hopelessly outclassed by Neeb in PvP, with the American protoss’ disruptor play proving far too much to handle. Games 1-3 all passed by in the blink of an eye, and while Trap’s early game on Apotheosis gave him an early lead, there was an inevitability to Neeb gradually hauling in his advantage.

Down on army size and disruptor count, Neeb put on a clinic of ‘How to PvP’, chipping away at Trap’s superior force bit by bit. If you want a simple example of Neeb’s superiority, you only need look at both players’ handling of their disruptors. Trap’s bunched disruptors proved to be his downfall, with several heavy hits cancelling out his lead and irrevocably turning the tide of battle. With no more options to turn to, Trap was forced to GG out, leaving Neeb as the first foreign SC2 champion in a Korean tournament.

Writer: thecrazymunchkin
Pictures: Kenzi
Editor: thecrazymunchkin
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
October 03 2016 18:01 GMT
#9
Maybe once the pageviews go down enough they might reconsider.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2581 Posts
October 03 2016 18:02 GMT
#10
On October 04 2016 02:53 choconet wrote:
i understand TL staff's reasoning for it but I also understand your reasoning.

I think a possible middleground is a toggle for people on displaying tourney news? It would be off by default and therefore not affect anyone.

They tried that. It doesn't work. Every time someone forgot to flag an article, people with the "no spoiler" flag got pissed. And of course there are lots of non-staff who create threads to talk about how someone won a game or to congratulate a tournament winner, and you can't expect admins to spend all their time policing which headlines need a spoiler flag and which don't.

The way I see it is, you wouldn't go on Sports Illustrated after a game you wanted to watch later. It is not generally expected that a sports news site abstain from reporting news on the sport it covers, or give its readers the ability to filter it out. Just skip TL for a day, and come back after you've caught up.
The frumious Bandersnatch
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
October 03 2016 18:03 GMT
#11
It's not really a change in their spoiler policy and more this particular tournament. Normally there is 1 recap after the tournament is finished (if they do one at all). This time they had individual recaps for every day for whatever reason.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 18:04 GMT
#12
On October 04 2016 03:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
The way I see it is, you wouldn't go on Sports Illustrated after a game you wanted to watch later. It is not generally expected that a sports news site abstain from reporting news on the sport it covers, or give its readers the ability to filter it out. Just skip TL for a day, and come back after you've caught up.


Sports Illustrated isn't a website for people in America and Europe who want to watch Korean and Japanese baseball, it generally exists to serve people who can watch games live with no issues.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:06:35
October 03 2016 18:04 GMT
#13
I feel like there is no need to pick one side of the fence. Give a grace period of 24-72 hours. In that period guard the wording of titles. Refrain from using an image of the winner in the title image of an article that will be displayed on the front page. Simply omitting the winners name from the thread title isn't going to kill esports. Then after x amount of time the grace period expires and people can title as they wish.

If random users on Reddit can accomplish this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
I have complete faith in the staff to as well.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
October 03 2016 18:05 GMT
#14
TL is not a news site for me, it's a forum. Big difference to a real news site like ESPN_esports for example.

Most users come here for the tournament threads, strategy and patch discussions and of course the stream links and vods.

There may be a ton of lurkers who just want to see news, but there are many other sites for that and just making spoiler free titles like on reddit should be easy enough. We are not talking about stopping to post news, just asking for a spoiler option or spoiler free titles. No harm done and it does not slow down the news at all.

I see only pros and no cons :/.

Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 03 2016 18:05 GMT
#15
It's something that is discussed internally a bunch and there are lots of different opinions. A solution/compromise is trying to be reached.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
October 03 2016 18:05 GMT
#16
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.
When I think of something else, something will go here
cha0
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada507 Posts
October 03 2016 18:09 GMT
#17
This is probably just one of the many changes that will be coming soon resulting from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/514345-wizards-warriors-and-magic-a-strategic-partnership
RIP, end of an era, seems fitting to coincide with the end of Korean starcraft as well.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 03 2016 18:09 GMT
#18
On October 04 2016 03:05 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.


That's because other sports have most people watching in the same time zone, not all the way around the world.

This is a website for English-speakers to watch matches that are aired for the Korean time zone. Real sports analogies don't apply.

In BW, this was obvious, and there weren't spoilers. At some point, because there were so many NA and EU timezone matches, people started wanting instant results threads with spoilers since they watched the matches live. And that's fine! But applying the same logic to Korean matches makes no sense.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 03 2016 18:10 GMT
#19
On October 04 2016 03:05 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2016 02:49 Kaizor wrote:
One of the TL staff or web admin posted that they had a discussion among themselves before finally deciding that since TL.net is meant for be a news site for SC2 news, it just did not make sense to hide the news behind spoilers so that is why they stop doing it.

And i agree with them.


I've always agreed with those type of things. If I didn't want spoilers, I would not go to the website that may have spoilers (intentional or not).

It's like other sports, you don't go to their website and then get mad about spoilers when it's pasted on the front page.


I find this to be a strange comparison, since community members here use the site for so much more than people use a news site for.

Like, if I want to check my pms because someone sent me some idea for a programming project, I can't because there might be spoilers up on the front page or side bar? I can't make or read forum posts? I can't even actually try to go and find the link the vods without being spoiled?

This isn't solely a news site.

And anyways I understand if the people who run the site want it to primarily be a news site. That's fine. But there seems to be some argument that it's too much of a hassle to have people actually click a link, which takes like a tenth of a second, to read the results. Just put the result inside the article! It's a tenth of a second of inconvenience vs completely ruining someone's experience.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24236 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 18:12:26
October 03 2016 18:11 GMT
#20
The best would be to still do those recaps, but with vague titles like "KeSPA Cup winner crowned" or "KeSPA Cup 2016 comes to an end".

Edit : agree with what travis says in the previous post. Just click on the damn link.
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