We started the Korean Starcraft year with an 0-4 demolition of Korea in NationWars; we bookend 2016 with a similar humbling. Throughout the year, there’s been a constant back and forth debate on the pros and cons of the WCS system. One side claimed that it would strengthen the WCS region; that the region lock would give greater incentive to foreigners looking to make a name for themselves in this new look Starcraft scene. The other argued that the Korean scene would be weakened, and that foreign achievements would be meaningless without the base line of comparison that is exposure to the best players in the world.
While it’s still too early to make a call on the latter point, it’s becoming harder and harder for doubters to deny the former. We’ve had constant rumblings suggesting that the scales have shifted: the quality of play in WCS; the online records of many of the top foreign pros against Korean opposition; the currently foreigner-favoured scorecard of SHOUTcraft Kings. However, it’s only now that KeSPA Cup has given us a demonstration of just how much the gap has closed.
Throughout 2016, Neeb’s been more threat than contender in the foreign scene; a player guaranteed to place highly, but also one seemingly fated to fall short time and time again. It’s arguable that his win here supercedes the rest of his achievements this year combined. There’s simply no precedent for Neeb’s achievements here in Starcraft 2; Jinro is the only foreigner who’s even come close—seven long, long years of unchallenged supremacy for Korean Starcraft in Seoul. So while there’ll undoubtedly be excitement about the possibilities of repeat success at BlizzCon, or arguments about what this means for the scene going forwards, let’s just sit back for now. Enjoy the moment. Relish in the delight of the unpredictable.
Stats and Neeb kicked off the day with our first semifinal, and although the KT man took game 1 with some clean chargelot-archon play, using phoenix lifts to counter Neeb’s disruptors, it rapidly became clear that he was outgunned. In his post-final interview, Neeb admitted to not preparing directly for Stats, instead relying on the same build he’s used day in, day out on ladder. That showed as he displayed the same rock solid fundamentals throughout his PvP day, simply getting more out of his units than his opponents.
Throughout the week, the Korean casters would exclaim “This foreigner has Korean micro!”; Neeb’s control during KeSPA Cup has been top tier stuff. Cleaner and crisper than any of the protosses we’ve seen, with none of the infamous nerve issues that he’s suffered from throughout the year, he blazed past Stats with ease in games 2 and 3, outplaying the KT protoss in the disruptor-to-disruptor matchup. Game 4 was a similar slugfest on King Sejong Station, but Stats’ reticence to attack left the set spiralling to an end-game scenario. Both players transitioned to tempests, but a decision to attack Neeb’s fifth base proved rash for Stats. Initially, it looked like an even trade, but with Neeb’s closer rally distances, Stats was always under time pressure. Bleeding out units during his retreat, and with no economy left to speak of, he was forced to tap out.
The day soon went from bad to worse for KT. TY effortlessly blew past Trap with an aggressive 1-1-1 on New Gettysburg, but Trap quickly responded with his own mass gateway cheese on KSS, while a second storm-powered win on Frost left him standing on the cusp of making his first premier finals for 19 months. Finally though, TY rediscovered some of the form that drove him to yesterday’s 3-0 shutout over Zest. TY dominated the game from start to finish, zoning Trap out of his third base on Frozen Temple with liberators before advanced ballistics signalled the death knell for the Jin Air protoss.
Dasan Station though was a whole different issue. Trap put on pressure right from the start—denying TY’s depot and reactor on the ramp with a pylon rush, before mass gateway units swarmed over the terran’s main and natural. TY initially seemed to have held the push, but poor scan discipline allowed Trap’s DTs to clean up and take the game for the protoss.
If our first semifinal of the day was a controlled victory for Neeb, and our second was a dirty knife fight with Trap emerging victorious, then the final was nothing short of a slaughter. It became readily apparent that Trap was hopelessly outclassed by Neeb in PvP, with the American protoss’ disruptor play proving far too much to handle. Games 1-3 all passed by in the blink of an eye, and while Trap’s early game on Apotheosis gave him an early lead, there was an inevitability to Neeb gradually hauling in his advantage.
Down on army size and disruptor count, Neeb put on a clinic of ‘How to PvP’, chipping away at Trap’s superior force bit by bit. If you want a simple example of Neeb’s superiority, you only need look at both players’ handling of their disruptors. Trap’s bunched disruptors proved to be his downfall, with several heavy hits cancelling out his lead and irrevocably turning the tide of battle. With no more options to turn to, Trap was forced to GG out, leaving Neeb as the first foreign SC2 champion in a Korean tournament.
I've been busy so I haven't followed much of StarCraft lately, but I had a feeling that KeSPA Cup was worth following. The passion is real. Can't believe what happened.
let's see if neeb can repeat his success. I agree with nerchio that a single tournament isn't very indicative of his skill level.
On August 27 2016 07:34 Nerchio wrote: As stuchiu said above, single tournaments don't mean anything. Only after a couple of tournaments we can start to discuss patterns and consistent results. True winning last tournament doesn't mean everyone else in foreignerland is shit. It also doesn't mean he is going to dominate everything from now on. If foreigners will do badly at Blizzcon it's not going to mean anything either, it's only 1 tournament.
Who was the Korean who had the best PvP for a long time? Was it Rain? Well, whoever it was, I think we just found the successor. (That is, until Blizz changes everything)
On October 03 2016 23:14 Incognoto wrote: spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler
i was going to watch the vods but forgot not to come to TL when there's a tournament going on RIP
yeah i'm super happy for Neeb, but also jaded that this was not broadcast on twitch and there's no instant vods. Luckily I was able to get up in time for the finals but I feel your pain x.x
On October 03 2016 23:12 Charoisaur wrote: let's see if neeb can repeat his success. I agree with nerchio that a single tournament isn't very indicative of his skill level.
On August 27 2016 07:34 Nerchio wrote: As stuchiu said above, single tournaments don't mean anything. Only after a couple of tournaments we can start to discuss patterns and consistent results. True winning last tournament doesn't mean everyone else in foreignerland is shit. It also doesn't mean he is going to dominate everything from now on. If foreigners will do badly at Blizzcon it's not going to mean anything either, it's only 1 tournament.
Of course 1 win is not expressive, but reading Nerchio's comment and assuming he didn't say anything positiv (correct me), e.g. congratulating Neeb, I'd say this sounds more like a jealous than an analytic Nerchio, especially knowing he was one of the participants as well. I mean this was surely no cakewalk.
Anyway congrats to Neeb, and sorry for Nerchio, also in Korea the main thing I hate about their tournaments is this... "They play against the other player, not the race", which means they prepare beforehand to specific gameplay from other player, which makes it look silly, and it feels like they are not really "Good at the MU but good against some builds studied before".
Even if I love the most to watch koreans play, that is the thing I never liked, and that is why I loved MLG or DH and those tournaments where you don't have the time to prepare for specific players over and over, but instead you need to prove yourself how good you are at the game itself in every MU.
It can be difficult with simple elimination brackets and such, but with Group Stages and later BO5 or better you can really show adjustments on your gameplay and claim how good you are.
If you ask me Neeb is really good, no doubt about it, but I am not sure if he can outplay Koreans preparing specifically against him in long tournaments like GSL.
On October 03 2016 23:17 TaShadan wrote: Unfortunately PvP is so boring to watch
You are literally observing constant explosions, for 15 minutes straight, all over the map, 3k resources worth of units each - and still manage to complain Woah m8
On October 03 2016 23:12 Charoisaur wrote: let's see if neeb can repeat his success. I agree with nerchio that a single tournament isn't very indicative of his skill level.
On August 27 2016 07:34 Nerchio wrote: As stuchiu said above, single tournaments don't mean anything. Only after a couple of tournaments we can start to discuss patterns and consistent results. True winning last tournament doesn't mean everyone else in foreignerland is shit. It also doesn't mean he is going to dominate everything from now on. If foreigners will do badly at Blizzcon it's not going to mean anything either, it's only 1 tournament.
Of course 1 win is not expressive, but reading Nerchio's comment and assuming he didn't say anything positiv (correct me), e.g. congratulating Neeb, I'd say this sounds more like a jealous than an analytic Nerchio, especially knowing he was one of the participants as well. I mean this was surely no cakewalk.
This was an old comment from Nerchio and not in response to Neeb's win today. And since Neeb had solid results all year long it does not apply to Neeb. Nerchio was arguing that TRUE is not the best player in WCS just because he won the first tournament he participated in. Once the other WCS players get used to TRUE it will be harder for him.
I think we should have playing for 24 hours on TL sc2 section haha. Neeb made history in a great PvP series vs Trap in the final i have to say. Game 1 and 2 super close, as well as game 4. Game 3 Neeb really did stomp Trap though.
On October 03 2016 23:36 Pandemona wrote: I think we should have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrZt45PEbSk playing for 24 hours on TL sc2 section haha. Neeb made history in a great PvP series vs Trap in the final i have to say. Game 1 and 2 super close, as well as game 4. Game 3 Neeb really did stomp Trap though.
For Trap game 4 was worse than the stomp in game 3 though I think. Neeb was so behind and still won in the end.
On October 03 2016 23:36 Pandemona wrote: I think we should have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrZt45PEbSk playing for 24 hours on TL sc2 section haha. Neeb made history in a great PvP series vs Trap in the final i have to say. Game 1 and 2 super close, as well as game 4. Game 3 Neeb really did stomp Trap though.
For Trap game 4 was worse than the stomp in game 3 though I think. Neeb was so behind and still won in the end.
Exactly. Also the game 1 comeback was nothing short of a small miracle.
On October 03 2016 23:12 Charoisaur wrote: let's see if neeb can repeat his success. I agree with nerchio that a single tournament isn't very indicative of his skill level.
On August 27 2016 07:34 Nerchio wrote: As stuchiu said above, single tournaments don't mean anything. Only after a couple of tournaments we can start to discuss patterns and consistent results. True winning last tournament doesn't mean everyone else in foreignerland is shit. It also doesn't mean he is going to dominate everything from now on. If foreigners will do badly at Blizzcon it's not going to mean anything either, it's only 1 tournament.
Of course 1 win is not expressive, but reading Nerchio's comment and assuming he didn't say anything positiv (correct me), e.g. congratulating Neeb, I'd say this sounds more like a jealous than an analytic Nerchio, especially knowing he was one of the participants as well. I mean this was surely no cakewalk.
This was an old comment from Nerchio and not in response to Neeb's win today. And since Neeb had solid results all year long it does not apply to Neeb. Nerchio was arguing that TRUE is not the best player in WCS just because he won the first tournament he participated in. Once the other WCS players get used to TRUE it will be harder for him.
Oh, didn't pay attention to the date. Sorry, my bad.
np spoiler since its pvp, Somehow im not surprised to see neeb win, he looked like a monster from the first round, thats a serious tournament to win :O
Nerchio will be playing his favorite ZvZ matchup vs Dark and another Zerg and also vs Stats! Then ByuN-Polt-Hydra-Dear 100% Korean group! ShowTime has Solar, TY and True! And Neeb can get to the actual BlizzCon with his PvP!
serious question, is this win not as impressive because SC2 is dying in South Korea? haven't really followed the SC2 scene but my impression is that Proleague is shutting down next year?
On October 03 2016 23:12 Charoisaur wrote: let's see if neeb can repeat his success. I agree with nerchio that a single tournament isn't very indicative of his skill level.
On August 27 2016 07:34 Nerchio wrote: As stuchiu said above, single tournaments don't mean anything. Only after a couple of tournaments we can start to discuss patterns and consistent results. True winning last tournament doesn't mean everyone else in foreignerland is shit. It also doesn't mean he is going to dominate everything from now on. If foreigners will do badly at Blizzcon it's not going to mean anything either, it's only 1 tournament.
Yeah right, lol. It is always going to mean that Neeb is by far a better player than Nerchio ever was....
Nerchio will be playing his favorite ZvZ matchup vs Dark and another Zerg and also vs Stats! Then ByuN-Polt-Hydra-Dear 100% Korean group! ShowTime has Solar, TY and True! And Neeb can get to the actual BlizzCon with his PvP!
My prediction: Dark+Stats ByuN+Polt Solar+TY Neeb+Snute :-)
The hold against Pet, game 5, was epic. I didnt get to watch any more of Kespa cup, but after that hold I'm not surprised that Neeb won the whole thing
I wonder how this impacts Korean StarCraft, though.
Is this gonna revitalize them, and give them a target to shoot for outside of their own little sphere? Are the Korean fans gonna become more interested now that there's some perceived competition? Maybe a little national pride in their players like we see with our own biased community?
Or is this the final nail in the coffin for the scene which has been rumored to be falling apart (i.e. lack of coaching support, motivation, teams disbanding, etc.)? I'm gonna be honest, I still don't think Neeb could touch the best of the best. He beat Stats and that's fantastic, but he managed to avoid Maru, TY and Zest and I think any of them would have beat him with a decent score (4-1, 4-2).
That said, he made history today, and this could hopefully open up a fantastic storyline for StarCraft going forward.
On October 04 2016 00:04 Lunareste wrote: I wonder how this impacts Korean StarCraft, though.
Is this gonna revitalize them, and give them a target to shoot for outside of their own little sphere? Are the Korean fans gonna become more interested now that there's some perceived competition? Maybe a little national pride in their players like we see with our own biased community?
Or is this the final nail in the coffin for the scene which has been rumored to be falling apart (i.e. lack of coaching support, motivation, teams disbanding, etc.)? I'm gonna be honest, I still don't think Neeb could touch the best of the best. He beat Stats and that's fantastic, but he managed to avoid Maru, TY and Zest and I think any of them would have beat him with a decent score (4-1, 4-2).
That said, he made history today, and this could hopefully open up a fantastic storyline for StarCraft going forward.
Congratulations Neeb!
Actually in fairness - and I agree with the points you raise - he did beat Zest in groups 2-0.
If you had asked me 2-3 years ago if any foreigner could come to Korea and win a Korean premier in the post-Stephano era, I would have thought it crazy.
This is the biggest win for the foreign scene in Starcraft 2
On October 04 2016 00:04 Lunareste wrote: I wonder how this impacts Korean StarCraft, though.
Is this gonna revitalize them, and give them a target to shoot for outside of their own little sphere? Are the Korean fans gonna become more interested now that there's some perceived competition? Maybe a little national pride in their players like we see with our own biased community?
Or is this the final nail in the coffin for the scene which has been rumored to be falling apart (i.e. lack of coaching support, motivation, teams disbanding, etc.)? I'm gonna be honest, I still don't think Neeb could touch the best of the best. He beat Stats and that's fantastic, but he managed to avoid Maru, TY and Zest and I think any of them would have beat him with a decent score (4-1, 4-2).
That said, he made history today, and this could hopefully open up a fantastic storyline for StarCraft going forward.
Congratulations Neeb!
Very well said ... exactly my thoughts ... will that give some additional effort or will it be the coffin? Unfortunately I think, the second is true as the future of Korean Proleague and Teams is already decided. And Neeb has beaten Zest, so I trust him that he is able to beat any Protoss from Korea. But as you mentioned - Maru ot TY would be a serious problem for him.
On October 04 2016 00:04 Lunareste wrote: I wonder how this impacts Korean StarCraft, though.
Is this gonna revitalize them, and give them a target to shoot for outside of their own little sphere? Are the Korean fans gonna become more interested now that there's some perceived competition? Maybe a little national pride in their players like we see with our own biased community?
Or is this the final nail in the coffin for the scene which has been rumored to be falling apart (i.e. lack of coaching support, motivation, teams disbanding, etc.)? I'm gonna be honest, I still don't think Neeb could touch the best of the best. He beat Stats and that's fantastic, but he managed to avoid Maru, TY and Zest and I think any of them would have beat him with a decent score (4-1, 4-2).
That said, he made history today, and this could hopefully open up a fantastic storyline for StarCraft going forward.
Congratulations Neeb!
Actually in fairness - and I agree with the points you raise - he did beat Zest in groups 2-0.
Yeah, only the top Terrans and maybe Dark could've had a chance against Neeb this tournament. He was just unbeatable in PvP.
Wow. Avilo was right. If a Terran switches to Protoss, he will instantly win Korean tourneys! All kidding aside, I am lost for words. Congratulations to Neeb! You are our new foreign hope. I guess NA is the best server
Very nice from Neeb! I hope more tournament will watch this and grow some balls to invite foreigners AND koreans now! Neeb proves the point that foreigners can fight! Thanks to him I dare to dream of more "global" events outside of kespa and blizzcon
I must comment that Trap played extremely well against Neeb, his play was actually top tier. Neeb was on fire though and did outplay him but saying it was a one sided stomp isn't really true both match 3 and 4 were close. Especially match four which was the best pvp game of the year probably top 5 game of the year
On October 04 2016 00:43 kugHop wrote: Very nice from Neeb! I hope more tournament will watch this and grow some balls to invite foreigners AND koreans now! Neeb proves the point that foreigners can fight! Thanks to him I dare to dream of more "global" events outside of kespa and blizzcon
We still need a region locked scene because we want more than just one foreigner able to compete. I do agree that having a couple more global events would be great, though.
Neeb showed world class play in game 4 of the finals when he was behind and still split his army perfectly to defend both of his new expansions. Incredible play, I feel lucky to have watched such an history event. WP Neeb.
On October 04 2016 00:18 KappaKingPrime wrote: NA>KR CONFIRMED!
Stop this silly troll comment, everyone knows KR is still the best even though the KR scene is dying, it's sad.
Why? I`m Korean and I love this happening. What Korea needs is competitive non-Koreans, not a trashtalker.
Do the Korean pros and fans feel differently about Neeb and Nerchio? Respect for one, less so for the other?
Absolutely. Koreans respect one with skill and modesty.
Since Koreans have insisted that there must be competitive foreign players in order to make SC more "global", just like LOL, they also congrats Neeb's winning.
On October 04 2016 02:22 Noonius wrote: holy fuck, I just realized something. Neeb has done the hardest part of the Triple Crown. Now he only has to win a premiere tournament in NA and EU
On October 04 2016 02:22 Noonius wrote: holy fuck, I just realized something. Neeb has done the hardest part of the Triple Crown. Now he only has to win a premiere tournament in NA and EU
On October 04 2016 02:22 Noonius wrote: holy fuck, I just realized something. Neeb has done the hardest part of the Triple Crown. Now he only has to win a premiere tournament in NA and EU
KeSPA Cup is not a premiere tourney - GSl/SSL is.
Yeah, KeSPA Cup is at the same level of IEM and DH (pre-region lock) - which is still a big achievement for a foreigner to win.
Neeb's victory is perhaps on par with Lilbow winning WCS last year (though some will argue that it's higher, due to KeSPA Cup being so stacked and hosted in Korea).
Tbh I'm really not sure how to rate KeSPA Cup in the bigger scheme of things. How seriously do the Korean pros treat it and prepare for it? Even when watching last year's tourneys, I don't really feel the same level of intensity from the top players.
On October 04 2016 02:22 Noonius wrote: holy fuck, I just realized something. Neeb has done the hardest part of the Triple Crown. Now he only has to win a premiere tournament in NA and EU
KeSPA Cup is not a premiere tourney - GSl/SSL is.
Yeah, KeSPA Cup is at the same level of IEM and DH (pre-region lock) - which is still a big achievement for a foreigner to win.
Neeb's victory is perhaps on par with Lilbow winning WCS last year (though some will argue that it's higher, due to KeSPA Cup being so stacked and hosted in Korea).
Tbh I'm really not sure how to rate KeSPA Cup in the bigger scheme of things. How seriously do the Korean pros treat it and prepare for it? Even when watching last year's tourneys, I don't really feel the same level of intensity from the top players.
I think that just depends on the players like usual. You could clearly see TY and Trap prepared a lot of different builds and strategies and were pretty invested into this one tournament, while other players just did the same things they always do.
On October 04 2016 02:22 Noonius wrote: holy fuck, I just realized something. Neeb has done the hardest part of the Triple Crown. Now he only has to win a premiere tournament in NA and EU
KeSPA Cup is not a premiere tourney - GSl/SSL is.
Yeah, KeSPA Cup is at the same level of IEM and DH (pre-region lock) - which is still a big achievement for a foreigner to win.
Neeb's victory is perhaps on par with Lilbow winning WCS last year (though some will argue that it's higher, due to KeSPA Cup being so stacked and hosted in Korea).
Tbh I'm really not sure how to rate KeSPA Cup in the bigger scheme of things. How seriously do the Korean pros treat it and prepare for it? Even when watching last year's tourneys, I don't really feel the same level of intensity from the top players.
Korean SC 101: Tourney level on Korean perspective
Premier: Blizzcon, GSL, SSL - if you win these tourneys, then Koreans consider the winner has "winning career."
To be a Bonjwa, you should win these tourneys 3 times within a year.
First tier - Tournaments with big prize/authority, such as IEM world, WCS season finals or DH winter (winter is bigger one, right?)
Second tier - other short-term tournaments like KeSPA Cup, Cross-finals, IEM, DH, and so on.
On October 04 2016 00:43 phodacbiet wrote: Wow. Avilo was right. If a Terran switches to Protoss, he will instantly win Korean tourneys! All kidding aside, I am lost for words. Congratulations to Neeb! You are our new foreign hope. I guess NA is the best server
Avilo should switch to Protoss himself to prove his theory. Maybe he is afraid that if he does he will now be complaining about how "OP" Terran is, with the lifted building and all. It would be one of the funniest stories woudn't it?
On October 04 2016 02:22 Noonius wrote: holy fuck, I just realized something. Neeb has done the hardest part of the Triple Crown. Now he only has to win a premiere tournament in NA and EU
KeSPA Cup is not a premiere tourney - GSl/SSL is.
Yeah, KeSPA Cup is at the same level of IEM and DH (pre-region lock) - which is still a big achievement for a foreigner to win.
Neeb's victory is perhaps on par with Lilbow winning WCS last year (though some will argue that it's higher, due to KeSPA Cup being so stacked and hosted in Korea).
Tbh I'm really not sure how to rate KeSPA Cup in the bigger scheme of things. How seriously do the Korean pros treat it and prepare for it? Even when watching last year's tourneys, I don't really feel the same level of intensity from the top players.
Korean SC 101: Tourney level on Korean perspective
Premier: Blizzcon, GSL, SSL - if you win these tourneys, then Koreans consider the winner has "winning career."
To be a Bonjwa, you should win these tourneys 3 times within a year.
First tier - Tournaments with big prize/authority, such as IEM world, WCS season finals or DH winter (winter is bigger one, right?)
Second tier - other short-term tournaments like KeSPA Cup, Cross-finals, IEM, DH, and so on.
CONGRATS NEEB!!!!!! Not only is this amazing as a story, but I've seriously never been so excited watching PvP in my life. Neeb's PvP is action-packed from beginning to end, full of finesse and creativity. Oracle shut downs, Disruptor and Adept control, perfectly split armies, even Disruptor flanks and all the other stuff, you were seriously a treat to watch. I can't count the number of times I jumped from my chair or threw my hands on my face in awe of your play!
Neeb, you make PvP good. I'm rooting for you to win Blizzcon brother!
On October 04 2016 01:34 aDyingApril wrote: Has there been any channels except the french ones that has been sending this? Just wondering where Tastosis went :/
It was streamed on youtube and not twitch. For some weird reasons youtube streams still don't get listed here on tl.
I'm so happy Neeb made it. Great result. Historical moment.
Overall, Kespa Cup once again have shown that Protoss is stronger atm. We almost had 4 Protoss in top-4. Thanks TY(or should I thank Zest for being in a bad shape?) for some diversity
Neeb is obviously a guy who works hard and knows what it takes to improve and take down top tier competition. Sucks that for basically all of sc2, 99% of foreigners have done nothing but make excuses for why they couldn't compete at the top level. Does he even make a salary from a team?
On October 04 2016 03:56 BisuDagger wrote: Great job Neeb! Now compare the difficulty of this run versus Jinro's runs in the GSL where he made the semifinals.
No matter what, I really enjoyed the hype and excitement from all those runs.
On October 04 2016 04:09 HugoBallzak wrote: Neeb is obviously a guy who works hard and knows what it takes to improve and take down top tier competition. Sucks that for basically all of sc2, 99% of foreigners have done nothing but make excuses for why they couldn't compete at the top level. Does he even make a salary from a team?
He's essentially under personal sponsorship from Ting.
Congratulations to Neeb. I think he certainly showed up and played well in this tournament. He deserves to win indeed.
However, to be totally honest here, I wasn't very impressed given the Korean players kind of eliminated themselves really. With exception with the win over Stats, the rest of Neeb's opponents are relatively easy for him. In group stage, Zest and Rogue were in such a poor form, especially Rogue. Then, Pet in Quarter Final was just a joke. Then, somehow Trap defeated TY and then Neeb beat him easily. Neeb essentially made his way to the top with PvP. I feel like if he bumped into TY or Maru or even Patience, I don't think he would win.
Well, having said that, a win is a win. He did win KeSPA Cup fair and square and deservedly so.
On October 04 2016 04:13 Vutalisk wrote: Congratulations to Neeb. I think he certainly showed up and played well in this tournament. He deserves to win indeed.
However, to be totally honest here, I wasn't very impressed given the Korean players kind of eliminated themselves really. With exception with the win over Stats, the rest of Neeb's opponents are relatively easy for him. In group stage, Zest and Rogue were in such a poor form, especially Rogue. Then, Pet in Quarter Final was just a joke. Then, somehow Trap defeated TY and then Neeb beat him easily. Neeb essentially made his way to the top with PvP. I feel like if he bumped into TY or Maru or even Patience, I don't think he would win.
Well, having said that, a win is a win. He did win KeSPA Cup fair and square and deservedly so.
I think Neeb would agree he'd have had a way harder time if he'd run into Maru or TY (I don't know about Patience, he didn't seem up to snuff in his PvP against Trap), he'd probably even say he'd have lost against TY. But as you say, a win is a win. And Stats is arguably the best PvPer in Korea. Neeb did a great job.
On October 04 2016 04:13 Vutalisk wrote: Congratulations to Neeb. I think he certainly showed up and played well in this tournament. He deserves to win indeed.
However, to be totally honest here, I wasn't very impressed given the Korean players kind of eliminated themselves really. With exception with the win over Stats, the rest of Neeb's opponents are relatively easy for him. In group stage, Zest and Rogue were in such a poor form, especially Rogue. Then, Pet in Quarter Final was just a joke. Then, somehow Trap defeated TY and then Neeb beat him easily. Neeb essentially made his way to the top with PvP. I feel like if he bumped into TY or Maru or even Patience, I don't think he would win.
Well, having said that, a win is a win. He did win KeSPA Cup fair and square and deservedly so.
WHHHHHHATTT? "koreans eliminated themselves" o_O i think your are mixing this with shoutcraft my man.
Something special watching this and losing sleep over it, haha. Soooo happy that Neeb won and the quality of the competition wasn't exactly pushover either.
The lad's humility during this tournament was really nice to see. I wish him continued success in future!
On October 03 2016 23:07 thecrazymunchkin wrote: Other titles considered were "Neeb Wins KeSPA Cup: Many a TL Poster Humiliated by Result" and "Faceless Foreigner steals Korean Money"
Sick write-up, thank you.
I caught the Stats series on O'Gaming for g4, I'm looking forward to the VODs of this one.
Went straight home from work - found the VODS without looking at the spoiler headlines and watched them all. Can't believe what Neeb accomplished here! Not only did he win, but he actually outplayed his opponents...not by cheesing at the right moments or winning by lucky build orders - but by OUTPLAYING them! Amazing considering everyone thought it was impossible.
Congratulations Neeb - can't wait to see more games in the future.
On a sidenote, there were some seriously entertaining PvPs in this tournament (although the finals were very disruptor heavy).
On October 04 2016 03:56 BisuDagger wrote: Great job Neeb! Now compare the difficulty of this run versus Jinro's runs in the GSL where he made the semifinals.
Polt was right when saying Jinro was overrated or something like that tho :x.
The underestimation by Stats was very interesting. He should have won that series by every stretch but he hit god tier levels of overconfidence. Going disruptor vs disruptor against the player who does it on a regular basis was just...is there a word to describe that level of mistake. Had he played more aggressive, possibly cheesey in games 2 and 3. Instead of going blink stalker pressure into "uh I guess I'll get upgrades and disruptors?" (which makes absolutely ZERO SENSEhe likely would have rolled over him. After that series I doubt anyone thought Trap was going to beat Neeb.
I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
I dunno for Neeb but ByuN's mechanics are worth more than being in a kespa house. Plus he can practice with Neeb anyways
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
if they were more motivated they may have done more research about him.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
if they were more motivated they may have done more research about him.
Or they did what Korean top tier players do. Think this one is in the bag so they focus on players they are more worried about.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
if they were more motivated they may have done more research about him.
Or they did what Korean top tier players do. Think this one is in the bag so they focus on players they are more worried about.
Not like it's hard to guess he's going to play disruptors again in the next game. They were just outclassed in PvP, which is weird considering the number of KR protoss going to Blizzcon.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
if they were more motivated they may have done more research about him.
Or they did what Korean top tier players do. Think this one is in the bag so they focus on players they are more worried about.
Not like it's hard to guess he's going to play disruptors again in the next game. They were just outclassed in PvP, which is weird considering the number of KR protoss going to Blizzcon.
Honestly from how PvP in Korea looked in the past few months, they're probably not used to both players surviving past the "mass adept" stage.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
if they were more motivated they may have done more research about him.
Or they did what Korean top tier players do. Think this one is in the bag so they focus on players they are more worried about.
Not like it's hard to guess he's going to play disruptors again in the next game. They were just outclassed in PvP, which is weird considering the number of KR protoss going to Blizzcon.
Trap and Zest were outclassed, Stats pulled the old "He can't beat me, im going to out disruptor him" and was dumbfounded.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
if they were more motivated they may have done more research about him.
Or they did what Korean top tier players do. Think this one is in the bag so they focus on players they are more worried about.
Not like it's hard to guess he's going to play disruptors again in the next game. They were just outclassed in PvP, which is weird considering the number of KR protoss going to Blizzcon.
They were just sure, they are so good that they will beet him even disruptor vs disruptor .. and they did not.
The more I am interested in his BlizzCon's group. Will Zest / Patience play something so that he does not get to disruptors? I hope so, as I am not interested in watching DPP (disruptor ping pong) for long minutes at BlizzCon.
thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
I have to say though, all those disruptor PvP games made me realize something. When both players have disruptors it's really hard to close out games even with sizable advantages.
I'm not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand it's pretty cool that this potential exists, because comebacks like these are usually not a thing in the other match-ups. On the other hand... it's based on units that can entirely ruin someone because they mistimed something by milliseconds.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
I would think it's hard to stay motivated when you can only play a maximum of 5 tournaments a year plus proleague.
Meanwhile Neeb just goes to Korea and proves the top argument of the WCS supporters is bullshit. He faced Koreans with their "Established" training and beat them by going there, facing them consistently on ladder and getting better.
So why do we need WCS any more? Because Nerchio is still shit? (Couldn't resist jabbing back when he's been trolling recently )
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
I would think it's hard to stay motivated when you can only play a maximum of 5 tournaments a year plus proleague.
Meanwhile Neeb just goes to Korea and proves the top argument of the WCS supporters is bullshit. He faced Koreans with their "Established" training and beat them by going there, facing them consistently on ladder and getting better.
So why do we need WCS any more? Because Nerchio is still shit? (Couldn't resist jabbing back when he's been trolling recently )
Yeah Neeb being the exception proves that, you are completely right. That's how that stuff works.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
Byun won through very solid mechanics, nothing weird about that. Neeb won through PvP and his opponents doing really really bad research agaisnt him which he took advantage of. Nothing to do with motivation.
if they were more motivated they may have done more research about him.
Or they did what Korean top tier players do. Think this one is in the bag so they focus on players they are more worried about.
Not like it's hard to guess he's going to play disruptors again in the next game. They were just outclassed in PvP, which is weird considering the number of KR protoss going to Blizzcon.
They were just sure, they are so good that they will beet him even disruptor vs disruptor .. and they did not.
The more I am interested in his BlizzCon's group. Will Zest / Patience play something so that he does not get to disruptors? I hope so, as I am not interested in watching DPP (disruptor ping pong) for long minutes at BlizzCon.
"They were just sure, they are so good that they will beet him even disruptor vs disruptor .. and they did not."
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
I would think it's hard to stay motivated when you can only play a maximum of 5 tournaments a year plus proleague.
Meanwhile Neeb just goes to Korea and proves the top argument of the WCS supporters is bullshit. He faced Koreans with their "Established" training and beat them by going there, facing them consistently on ladder and getting better.
So why do we need WCS any more? Because Nerchio is still shit? (Couldn't resist jabbing back when he's been trolling recently )
If you genuinely think infrastructure has no impact on results you really need to get out and learn how the world works. Do you think Americans are just magically better at basketball or is it because they pump more resources into the sport, and have been doing so for decades, than the rest of the world combined? Replace Americans with Koreans and basketball with SC2 and you get the same thing.
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
That wasn't really a serious post. But Stephano did qualify for WESG through the African qualifier.
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
A very german post.
Savage
But I think the correct response would still be to ask MyLovelyLurker if they're from Romania.
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
A very german post.
Savage
Racist. In more ways than one.
That isn't racist at all. I don't think you understand what that word means.
On October 04 2016 06:05 Dodgin wrote: I wonder if the system in Korea has begun to fail, thinking about how and why Byun and Neeb were able to win such big tournaments in this time period. I think the motivation level is falling for a lot pro's on Kespa teams, with all the rumors of disbandment and Proleague ending.
Of course I'm not trying to take away from their wins, they absolutely deserve it. It's interesting to see the rise of players who don't have that system in place and how they can now find success.
I would think it's hard to stay motivated when you can only play a maximum of 5 tournaments a year plus proleague.
Meanwhile Neeb just goes to Korea and proves the top argument of the WCS supporters is bullshit. He faced Koreans with their "Established" training and beat them by going there, facing them consistently on ladder and getting better.
So why do we need WCS any more? Because Nerchio is still shit? (Couldn't resist jabbing back when he's been trolling recently )
Yeah Neeb being the exception proves that, you are completely right. That's how that stuff works.
So your answer is you don't have an answer. Fair enough
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
So why does he have the Tunesian or Algerian citizenship?
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
So why does he have the Tunesian or Algerian citizenship?
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
A very german post.
Savage
But I think the correct response would still be to ask MyLovelyLurker if they're from Romania.
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
So why does he have the Tunesian or Algerian citizenship?
It was all planned from the start. His Tunisian parents were told by the Xel'Naga in 1993 he would go on to game the WCS points system by being first-born on French soil, and he would hence benefit from a free losers' bracket. The rest is, obviously, history.
On October 04 2016 06:37 hyuu wrote: thank you so much neeb to finally make me the oportunity to say this : YES !!!! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! FRANCE ! Neeb is french !!!!! No offense, cheers from a stephano fan
Come on, Stephano is not French, he was representing I think Tunesia or Algeria in WESG ... so his participation in Nation Wars was just cheating the system!
The guy's born in Creteil, and went to high school in Saint Sernin in Toulouse, both eminently French cities. Would you please kindly make informed posts ?
So why does he have the Tunesian or Algerian citizenship?
In light of this, it's more like Prague is the new Bucarest... Unless I'm thinking of the wrong kind of movie
First of all, congrats Neeb. You're now a champion, you're a level above all other foreigners and you're officially The Foreign Hope TM. It's a great burden and you will be measured by this success the rest of your career. Look no further than Lilbow to see what happens if you fail.
Now it only becomes harder. Before that you were a promising guy who could bring it all together some time. You've brought it all together and from now on people will not underestimate you. They will prepare as they will see beating you as an achievement by itself. Yes, you're forever a legend, The Guy Who Came to Korea and Won, but not all legends have a happy ending.
Since you're hot stuff now and we don't need to commend you after each win over a Korean anymore, there is a pressing question you can't ignore: a lot of mediocre players have won one tournament. A moment of brilliance, matching stars, bracket luck - there can be many reasons why a particular player won a particular tournament, but one win is not a sign of class. In a grand scheme of things you're still worse than ForGG - while it is better than 99,9% of people playing SC2, is it what you aspired to be?
And then there is a question of what to do next. There's Blizzcon where you should try your hardest even if you want to prepare for WC4 or whatever. After that you have a choice - and in my opinion it's a simple one. There is not enough weekend tournaments with best competition to become Taeja of LotV. Dominating foreign scene would be nice - but the game is volatile and everything less than being a Foreign Bonjwa wouldn't suffice. But while GSL is still alive nothing will be more prestigious than winning over Koreans in preparation style tournaments - that's their game and no-one managed to beat them at it. You don't need a special guest treatment - start from the bottom and work your way up as an equal. A win there will propel you over Stephano into #1 foreigner of all time - and who knows, maybe you could even try to achieve even more.
The way he drop harasses and takes fights, reduces the opponents army size bit by bit... you just cannot help but see that he plays Protoss as if he still played terran. I wondered why no more players play like that - even back in the WOL days. It sure helped learning sc2 the most (mechanically) demanding way, then switch to another race with different demands. Therefore he plays a style noone can adapt to, since its not really meta, just this one guy introducing terran machanics to the protoss race, abusing or just using the best of both worlds.
On October 04 2016 08:01 Ingvar wrote: First of all, congrats Neeb. You're now a champion, you're a level above all other foreigners and you're officially The Foreign Hope TM. It's a great burden and you will be measured by this success the rest of your career. Look no further than Lilbow to see what happens if you fail.
Now it only becomes harder. Before that you were a promising guy who could bring it all together some time. You've brought it all together and from now on people will not underestimate you. They will prepare as they will see beating you as an achievement by itself. Yes, you're forever a legend, The Guy Who Came to Korea and Won, but not all legends have a happy ending.
Since you're hot stuff now and we don't need to commend you after each win over a Korean anymore, there is a pressing question you can't ignore: a lot of mediocre players have won one tournament. A moment of brilliance, matching stars, bracket luck - there can be many reasons why a particular player won a particular tournament, but one win is not a sign of class. In a grand scheme of things you're still worse than ForGG - while it is better than 99,9% of people playing SC2, is it what you aspired to be?
And then there is a question of what to do next. There's Blizzcon where you should try your hardest even if you want to prepare for WC4 or whatever. After that you have a choice - and in my opinion it's a simple one. There is not enough weekend tournaments with best competition to become Taeja of LotV. Dominating foreign scene would be nice - but the game is volatile and everything less than being a Foreign Bonjwa wouldn't suffice. But while GSL is still alive nothing will be more prestigious than winning over Koreans in preparation style tournaments - that's their game and no-one managed to beat them at it. You don't need a special guest treatment - start from the bottom and work your way up as an equal. A win there will propel you over Stephano into #1 foreigner of all time - and who knows, maybe you could even try to achieve even more.
Good luck.
Lots of bullshit after first paragraph. Just shut up, save your preach and be happy for Neeb. I don't watch and play SC2 for the time being, but I'm glad he shut so many mouths (in a positive sense).
I really need to stop coming to TeamLiquid until I've caught up on any VODs I need to watch. The spoilers are out of control. I remember when I used to be able to come to this site to catch up on the games from the night before or even days before without being spoiled. Now, it's just a shit show because "sports sites aren't spoiler-free so neither are we." What a joke...a very bad joke.
On October 03 2016 23:07 thecrazymunchkin wrote: Other titles considered were "Neeb Wins KeSPA Cup: Many a TL Poster Humiliated by Result" and "Faceless Foreigner steals Korean Money"
On October 04 2016 08:15 Devolved wrote: I really need to stop coming to TeamLiquid until I've caught up on any VODs I need to watch. The spoilers are out of control. I remember when I used to be able to come to this site to catch up on the games from the night before or even days before without being spoiled. Now, it's just a shit show because "sports sites aren't spoiler-free so neither are we." What a joke...a very bad joke.
Congrats Neeb! Super amazing victories!
Yea the header photo was pretty spoilerific. I came here mindlessly earlier and it was sort of hard to miss the picture of Neeb kissing a trophy before remembering to avoid TL before watching VODs.
On October 04 2016 08:15 Devolved wrote: I really need to stop coming to TeamLiquid until I've caught up on any VODs I need to watch. The spoilers are out of control. I remember when I used to be able to come to this site to catch up on the games from the night before or even days before without being spoiled. Now, it's just a shit show because "sports sites aren't spoiler-free so neither are we." What a joke...a very bad joke.
Congrats Neeb! Super amazing victories!
Yea the header photo was pretty spoilerific. I came here mindlessly earlier and it was sort of hard to miss the picture of Neeb kissing a trophy before remembering to avoid TL before watching VODs.
Sadly, the only real solution is just to not visit TL until you're done watching VODs. I used to have TL in a bookmark folder along with other sites I'd automatically open whenever I started up my computer and launched my browser. I've since had to remove TL from that group of sites.
On October 04 2016 08:01 Ingvar wrote: First of all, congrats Neeb. You're now a champion, you're a level above all other foreigners and you're officially The Foreign Hope TM. It's a great burden and you will be measured by this success the rest of your career. Look no further than Lilbow to see what happens if you fail.
Now it only becomes harder. Before that you were a promising guy who could bring it all together some time. You've brought it all together and from now on people will not underestimate you. They will prepare as they will see beating you as an achievement by itself. Yes, you're forever a legend, The Guy Who Came to Korea and Won, but not all legends have a happy ending.
Since you're hot stuff now and we don't need to commend you after each win over a Korean anymore, there is a pressing question you can't ignore: a lot of mediocre players have won one tournament. A moment of brilliance, matching stars, bracket luck - there can be many reasons why a particular player won a particular tournament, but one win is not a sign of class. In a grand scheme of things you're still worse than ForGG - while it is better than 99,9% of people playing SC2, is it what you aspired to be?
And then there is a question of what to do next. There's Blizzcon where you should try your hardest even if you want to prepare for WC4 or whatever. After that you have a choice - and in my opinion it's a simple one. There is not enough weekend tournaments with best competition to become Taeja of LotV. Dominating foreign scene would be nice - but the game is volatile and everything less than being a Foreign Bonjwa wouldn't suffice. But while GSL is still alive nothing will be more prestigious than winning over Koreans in preparation style tournaments - that's their game and no-one managed to beat them at it. You don't need a special guest treatment - start from the bottom and work your way up as an equal. A win there will propel you over Stephano into #1 foreigner of all time - and who knows, maybe you could even try to achieve even more.
Good luck.
Or he could choose to not worry about literally anything you just said and do whatever makes him happy. Pretty sure he's doing just fine without an arrogant Starcraft life coach implying he'll never be good enough unless he becomes the best foreigner ever.
On October 04 2016 08:01 Ingvar wrote: First of all, congrats Neeb. You're now a champion, you're a level above all other foreigners and you're officially The Foreign Hope TM. It's a great burden and you will be measured by this success the rest of your career. Look no further than Lilbow to see what happens if you fail.
Now it only becomes harder. Before that you were a promising guy who could bring it all together some time. You've brought it all together and from now on people will not underestimate you. They will prepare as they will see beating you as an achievement by itself. Yes, you're forever a legend, The Guy Who Came to Korea and Won, but not all legends have a happy ending.
Since you're hot stuff now and we don't need to commend you after each win over a Korean anymore, there is a pressing question you can't ignore: a lot of mediocre players have won one tournament. A moment of brilliance, matching stars, bracket luck - there can be many reasons why a particular player won a particular tournament, but one win is not a sign of class. In a grand scheme of things you're still worse than ForGG - while it is better than 99,9% of people playing SC2, is it what you aspired to be?
And then there is a question of what to do next. There's Blizzcon where you should try your hardest even if you want to prepare for WC4 or whatever. After that you have a choice - and in my opinion it's a simple one. There is not enough weekend tournaments with best competition to become Taeja of LotV. Dominating foreign scene would be nice - but the game is volatile and everything less than being a Foreign Bonjwa wouldn't suffice. But while GSL is still alive nothing will be more prestigious than winning over Koreans in preparation style tournaments - that's their game and no-one managed to beat them at it. You don't need a special guest treatment - start from the bottom and work your way up as an equal. A win there will propel you over Stephano into #1 foreigner of all time - and who knows, maybe you could even try to achieve even more.
Good luck.
Or he could choose to not worry about literally anything you just said and do whatever makes him happy. Pretty sure he's doing just fine without an arrogant Starcraft life coach implying he'll never be good enough unless he becomes the best foreigner ever.
On October 04 2016 08:01 Ingvar wrote: First of all, congrats Neeb. You're now a champion, you're a level above all other foreigners and you're officially The Foreign Hope TM. It's a great burden and you will be measured by this success the rest of your career. Look no further than Lilbow to see what happens if you fail.
Now it only becomes harder. Before that you were a promising guy who could bring it all together some time. You've brought it all together and from now on people will not underestimate you. They will prepare as they will see beating you as an achievement by itself. Yes, you're forever a legend, The Guy Who Came to Korea and Won, but not all legends have a happy ending.
Since you're hot stuff now and we don't need to commend you after each win over a Korean anymore, there is a pressing question you can't ignore: a lot of mediocre players have won one tournament. A moment of brilliance, matching stars, bracket luck - there can be many reasons why a particular player won a particular tournament, but one win is not a sign of class. In a grand scheme of things you're still worse than ForGG - while it is better than 99,9% of people playing SC2, is it what you aspired to be?
And then there is a question of what to do next. There's Blizzcon where you should try your hardest even if you want to prepare for WC4 or whatever. After that you have a choice - and in my opinion it's a simple one. There is not enough weekend tournaments with best competition to become Taeja of LotV. Dominating foreign scene would be nice - but the game is volatile and everything less than being a Foreign Bonjwa wouldn't suffice. But while GSL is still alive nothing will be more prestigious than winning over Koreans in preparation style tournaments - that's their game and no-one managed to beat them at it. You don't need a special guest treatment - start from the bottom and work your way up as an equal. A win there will propel you over Stephano into #1 foreigner of all time - and who knows, maybe you could even try to achieve even more.
Good luck.
Lots of bullshit after first paragraph. Just shut up, save your preach and be happy for Neeb. I don't watch and play SC2 for the time being, but I'm glad he shut so many mouths (in a positive sense).
Wow both so salty over a true post.
Listen, this is just how competition works. I don't care if you're a football player, rapper, inventor, or Starcraft player -- once you achieve this level of success, you get your 15 minutes of fame, and then you either go beyond the success you've already enjoyed, or you fall into obscurity.
Ingvar wasn't telling Neeb what to do, and if he was, that was misguided. But either way, Ingvar speaks the truth when he talks about how Neeb will need to do more than just win the Kespa Cup to be a true legend. Otherwise, he will always be remembered in the same vein as Seed, TOP, and so many others.
EDIT: I should still say, though -- Neeb, you're a fucking beast and I can't believe that you managed to pull this off. NA can be proud of such a feat. gg wp and I hope that you keep movin' on up.
On October 04 2016 00:43 phodacbiet wrote: Wow. Avilo was right. If a Terran switches to Protoss, he will instantly win Korean tourneys! All kidding aside, I am lost for words. Congratulations to Neeb! You are our new foreign hope. I guess NA is the best server
On October 04 2016 00:43 phodacbiet wrote: Wow. Avilo was right. If a Terran switches to Protoss, he will instantly win Korean tourneys! All kidding aside, I am lost for words. Congratulations to Neeb! You are our new foreign hope. I guess NA is the best server
On October 04 2016 07:49 CannonKingPrime wrote: Meh. Cool, but his road to the finals was mostly a cake walk. He was a ways to go before being considered with the likes of Naniwa, Stephano, Snute.
Meh, I'd say he's on the same level as them. He's already accomplished what none of them could: win a tournament in Korea.
On October 04 2016 08:01 Ingvar wrote: First of all, congrats Neeb. You're now a champion, you're a level above all other foreigners and you're officially The Foreign Hope TM. It's a great burden and you will be measured by this success the rest of your career. Look no further than Lilbow to see what happens if you fail.
Well, this isn't exactly true as Lilbow specifically did not practice for Blizzcon. I highly doubt that Neeb will suddenly starting practicing for SC3 in the near future and/or use that as an excuse.
Now it only becomes harder. Before that you were a promising guy who could bring it all together some time. You've brought it all together and from now on people will not underestimate you. They will prepare as they will see beating you as an achievement by itself. Yes, you're forever a legend, The Guy Who Came to Korea and Won, but not all legends have a happy ending.
This is true. Neeb will no longer be an underdog, and in many ways, the Kespa Cup win will overshadow him, and people may or may not have higher than realistic expectations of him.
Since you're hot stuff now and we don't need to commend you after each win over a Korean anymore, there is a pressing question you can't ignore: a lot of mediocre players have won one tournament. A moment of brilliance, matching stars, bracket luck - there can be many reasons why a particular player won a particular tournament, but one win is not a sign of class. In a grand scheme of things you're still worse than ForGG - while it is better than 99,9% of people playing SC2, is it what you aspired to be?
I'm not sure how or why Neeb would be worse than forGG. They rarely played together, so I'm not exactly certain where the comparison is. I would also disagree that a "lot of mediocre players have won one tournament." No, none of those players were mediocre; they were some of the strongest players at that time. The fact that they fell off very quickly should not detract from this fact. Though we might make fun of Seed or jjakji for doing little after their wins, the fact is that they were once GSL champions, and that is not something to belittle.
Also, this comparison is not totally apt for either foreigners or Koreans. If you are talking about Koreans who fell off after one tournament, Neeb is not a Korean, and so he didn't have the same environment as a Korean. And for the foreigners who fell off after one tournament, Neeb didn't win a foreign tournament.
This isn't a Korean player winning a GSL and falling off the face of the planet; it's a foreigner winning a Korean tournament for the first time in 16 years. It's something that hasn't been done in a long time.
And then there is a question of what to do next. There's Blizzcon where you should try your hardest even if you want to prepare for WC4 or whatever. After that you have a choice - and in my opinion it's a simple one. There is not enough weekend tournaments with best competition to become Taeja of LotV. Dominating foreign scene would be nice - but the game is volatile and everything less than being a Foreign Bonjwa wouldn't suffice. But while GSL is still alive nothing will be more prestigious than winning over Koreans in preparation style tournaments - that's their game and no-one managed to beat them at it. You don't need a special guest treatment - start from the bottom and work your way up as an equal. A win there will propel you over Stephano into #1 foreigner of all time - and who knows, maybe you could even try to achieve even more.
Good luck.
This I agree with (mostly). I hope that Neeb is not satisfied with just winning one tournament. I really hope that he goes and competes in the GSL where they are more heavily on the preparation side. Hopefully he doesn't fall of skill wise as some GSL winners or runner-ups do the season after they win. He should follow Zest in that respect. He should always be striving for more.
I would say that this Kespa cup is comparable to much faster SSL win in that they had a lot of preparation time for their group stages, and then of course the quarters to the finals were played in quick succession. But Neeb did do something: At the very least, for the group stages, he beat Koreans who were likely preparing for him. Perhaps they didn't prepare as much for him as they should have, but I feel that they still did do some preparation.
On October 04 2016 07:49 CannonKingPrime wrote: Meh. Cool, but his road to the finals was mostly a cake walk. He was a ways to go before being considered with the likes of Naniwa, Stephano, Snute.
Meh, I'd say he's on the same level as them. He's already accomplished what none of them could: win a tournament in Korea.
I think this is very significant. We can point to foreigners and their consistency, but very few were ever able to consistently win over Koreans, and only one prior won an actual Korean starleague. (Granted, of course, this is like a hybrid preparation/weekend tournament)
On October 04 2016 08:15 Devolved wrote: I really need to stop coming to TeamLiquid until I've caught up on any VODs I need to watch. The spoilers are out of control. I remember when I used to be able to come to this site to catch up on the games from the night before or even days before without being spoiled. Now, it's just a shit show because "sports sites aren't spoiler-free so neither are we." What a joke...a very bad joke.
Congrats Neeb! Super amazing victories!
i remember a time where i had to search for 10 minutes to find the results of a match i knew was played. this is a news site and i'm glad they changed it.
On October 04 2016 08:15 Devolved wrote: I really need to stop coming to TeamLiquid until I've caught up on any VODs I need to watch. The spoilers are out of control. I remember when I used to be able to come to this site to catch up on the games from the night before or even days before without being spoiled. Now, it's just a shit show because "sports sites aren't spoiler-free so neither are we." What a joke...a very bad joke.
Congrats Neeb! Super amazing victories!
What I did was go directly to TL tourney section - find the VOD link - open and watch. It's not completely spoiler free as VODs would be titled "Final X vs Y - game 2" etc. but it's probably as close as you get.
Otherwise you will have to ask a friend to link you the vods one by one
he's got a king swag and pretty much dominated through the 4 matches, as he said earlier: "i expected a clean sweep against trap" , apparently he had deliver, congrats to NEEB.
Why did Stats switch away from the Pica style in game 1? If you don't fuck up your micro it basically counters the Disruptors. I'm not sure if Trap and he wanted to prove that they are better than a "foreigner" with Disruptors or if it was some other reason. Anyway, Neeb too good.
Gratz Neeb! PvP is usually really boring, but not these kind of games that looks very far from coin-flips. Great army control and macro. Getting back from being under 30-40 army supply is just incredible.
On October 03 2016 23:13 QzYSc2 wrote: good now try as terran
Well he tried as terran. He failed, so he tried again as protoss. Conspiracy theorists say that Toss is imba, but you could also argue that his mindset works better with this one race then with the other.
If there's a new proleague season I actually think Neeb could crush it on a Kespa team after watching those performances. That disruptor micro was among the best micro i've seen from anyone in SC2. Could easily be the most talented foreigner in SC2 history if he can continue to play as well as he did this tournament (as it stands that's probably Stephano during his peak as the best/most consistent foreigner?)
Will def be interesting to see what Neeb does next and whether he can keep playing at this level, Rogue/Zest/Stats/Trap/Pet, it's not like he had a soft run to the finals, although obviously not facing TY or Maru helps.
Hi guys. This is a WARNING: I just surfed this thread with my mobile and when I wanted to click on next page it suddenly opened new windows/tabs: Something with www.baidu.com/?a=w266.. (many characters and numbers, not an ad) and then also http://ybjgg62pz8.pw/G_A/cs_mc/j93fxd.html?model=Android 4.4... and then many numbers and characters... Since I only use TL with scriptblogger the page immidiately closed, however the 2nd page got me suspicious and it also already happened several times that passwords and other things got "hacked" (stolen) by stupid ad scripts (which is why you should use adblock, antivirus etc).
Anyone knows what these 2 sites (especially the latter one) does? No google entries obvsly
Congratulations Neeb! He made me spring out of the chair several times... his PvP is out of this world, and his PvZ is also great. Sadly, nowadays you do not need a world-class PvT to win a tournament. This is so good for SC both in Korea and internationally... we need more competition. I hope Blizzard realizes the hype that Kespa Cup has brought to the scene, and allows more non-locked tournaments for next year. Three or four would be enough, too many would ruin the hype.
On October 06 2016 07:57 Xamo wrote: Congratulations Neeb! He made me spring out of the chair several times... his PvP is out of this world, and his PvZ is also great. Sadly, nowadays you do not need a world-class PvT to win a tournament. This is so good for SC both in Korea and internationally... we need more competition. I hope Blizzard realizes the hype that Kespa Cup has brought to the scene, and allows more non-locked tournaments for next year. Three or four would be enough, too many would ruin the hype.
What do you mean? Back in BW, there were matchup specialists but almost no one was excellent in all. Except people like Flash and Jaedong. SC2 isn't too different in that sense.
On October 06 2016 22:42 quirinus wrote: For the guys saying spoiler, I think you can turn spoiler news off in the site settings.
Not yet, but they're working on it.
They are? I think it's a great solution for people who don't want spoilers and those who don't mind spoilers.
Last post I saw a TL staff reply it was a bit aggressive saying something to the effect of "we're a news site so this is how it's gonna be take it or leave it"
On October 06 2016 22:42 quirinus wrote: For the guys saying spoiler, I think you can turn spoiler news off in the site settings.
Not yet, but they're working on it.
They are? I think it's a great solution for people who don't want spoilers and those who don't mind spoilers.
Last post I saw a TL staff reply it was a bit aggressive saying something to the effect of "we're a news site so this is how it's gonna be take it or leave it"
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/thecrazymunchkin/neebkespacup2.jpg)
Stats and 
TY effortlessly blew past 
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
