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They went from such awesome changes to such terrible changes.
Let's reduce chitinous plating to +3 armor from +4 armor (if not +2 again like HOTS). We already have the marauder nerfed vs it, I don't know why we want Liberator/Ghost to be the option against that unit. The playstyles just aren't as fun (imo).
Let's do something like change muta regen to an upgrade at Hive, and consequently you don't need liberators to shit on on mutas, and Phoenix don't have to be the only counter to them. You could also tone down medivac boost marginally, so the muta nerf doesn't hit as hard.
I wish tankivacs were revisited, but that might be dead. The increased damage to compensate was an awesome way to go.
Look at immortal barrier, I'd just prefer the immortal from HOTS to be honest.
People talk about the "extremes" being what's fun, but I don't know about the current state. I think the ultra vs liberator dynamic bothers me the most.
Why not just increase the lockon range for cyclones by +1 default and +2 after the missle upgrade? Gives stalkers a +1 range buff along with blink and make it 200/200.
While I'm ranting, stop making each new team combination require 5 placements. Everytime I start a new team and crush silver players, I feel like I'm just disincentivizing them to continue trying to learn and play. If Im' masters in 4 teams already, why start all the way over with a new team... just take the average MMR or 1's or something.
There's a lot more, oh well. /rant
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On May 01 2016 03:18 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2016 11:28 MiniFotToss wrote:On April 30 2016 08:59 The_Templar wrote:Photon Cannon
Anti-air damage increased from 20 to 20 (+10 bio)
Uh.... wtf? clearly you haven't been around lately, it was discussed since last week Yeah I've been busy, but this doesn't really make any sense.. at all.
It makes perfect sense.
Problem: Mutalisk. Solution: Photon Cannon.
That is all Blizzard can do these days, since forever as TheDwf so eloquently pointed out. Long gone are the days when control and position of Blink Stalkers and Templar could carry the day.
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The lib/thor change doesn't make much sense to me. It looks like it'll be almost impossible to tackle a corruptor/ultra/BL composition late game. With thors?
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Wow, this is.... underwhelming, to say the least. If I mentally go through all match ups I don't see this changing anything really.
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good news: can't wait for sOs to cannon rush terrans :D
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I think it's more then fair to say that the Banshee change would have made ZvT unplayable, but now without Liberators controlling the skies nearly as easily (armor upgrades on Corruptors are going to make them very tanky) there might be appropriate buffs and nerfs to be given as time goes on.
I'm more then fine with an Ultralisk armor nerf, it's honestly nonsensical to have it alongside the Marauder nerf, if we keep the armor, buff the Marauders so Ghosts and Liberators won't be so crucial in defending the Ultralisk onslaught.
I'm the first one to jump for joy at Liberator nerfs, but I'm also realistic to see that they were the OP that Terran needed to stay balanced vs Zerg, at least at the highest level.
The Disruptor and Cyclone could sure use some love...
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On May 01 2016 01:25 shid0x wrote:
oh god the desesperation.
This isn't really "balance change" anymore, it just feels like random changes and blizzard is like "lets hope to god it looks like we still give a shit".
Game's boring.
Watching pro is the only fun thing anymore, such change sure as hell wont get old players to come back.
Precisely.
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cant believe they are going with the cannon change :s
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On April 30 2016 20:54 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2016 20:39 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It does kind of make sense that blizzard changed the thor to an anti corruptor unit, but they did so without telling anyone of their intentions. Anyhow your little story of unit interactions is somewhat laughable. Ok, you might not be aware but we have community feedbacks every weekd + various interviews. The Thor AA is a subject that has been talked about since january or something. Second, I'm ready to admit that I'm wrong and that you're a superior player, but I will need better explanations and proofs to admit it. I'm laughable, fine, I like to laugh, just enlighten me...
Well theres the strange narrative that you got to freedom zone all your liberators, instead of liberation zone some of them and leaving adequate amounts for anti air. Though in your case, you seem to be making vikings instead of more liberators, in which case, before the patch, the question would had been why do so?
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On May 01 2016 05:42 necrosexy wrote:
good news: can't wait for sOs to cannon rush terrans :D
Terrans don't have bio air (and bio air isn't a thing when cannon rushes hits zerg) so why would he start doing that because of this patch?
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damn this patch is a bunch of nonsensical band-aids. It's like lotv never made it out of beta.
Can we revert back to hots please? not even kidding, i would definitely play more if we all went back to hots
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these changes are all retarded
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On May 01 2016 03:30 FabledIntegral wrote:
They went from such awesome changes to such terrible changes.
Let's reduce chitinous plating to +3 armor from +4 armor (if not +2 again like HOTS). We already have the marauder nerfed vs it, I don't know why we want Liberator/Ghost to be the option against that unit. The playstyles just aren't as fun (imo).
Let's do something like change muta regen to an upgrade at Hive, and consequently you don't need liberators to shit on on mutas, and Phoenix don't have to be the only counter to them. You could also tone down medivac boost marginally, so the muta nerf doesn't hit as hard.
I wish tankivacs were revisited, but that might be dead. The increased damage to compensate was an awesome way to go.
Look at immortal barrier, I'd just prefer the immortal from HOTS to be honest.
People talk about the "extremes" being what's fun, but I don't know about the current state. I think the ultra vs liberator dynamic bothers me the most.
Why not just increase the lockon range for cyclones by +1 default and +2 after the missle upgrade? Gives stalkers a +1 range buff along with blink and make it 200/200.
While I'm ranting, stop making each new team combination require 5 placements. Everytime I start a new team and crush silver players, I feel like I'm just disincentivizing them to continue trying to learn and play. If Im' masters in 4 teams already, why start all the way over with a new team... just take the average MMR or 1's or something.
There's a lot more, oh well. /rant
Because if you're masters and your friend is masters, then you're probably team masters as well. The same may not be true if you're masters but your other friend is 1vs1 bronze.
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I'm still waiting for Protoss to "solve" Zergling spam. I've yet to see it in tourney results. Maybe just battle.net warriors gloating from false pride? It's okay to admit you need help.
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On May 01 2016 10:07 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 03:30 FabledIntegral wrote:
They went from such awesome changes to such terrible changes.
Let's reduce chitinous plating to +3 armor from +4 armor (if not +2 again like HOTS). We already have the marauder nerfed vs it, I don't know why we want Liberator/Ghost to be the option against that unit. The playstyles just aren't as fun (imo).
Let's do something like change muta regen to an upgrade at Hive, and consequently you don't need liberators to shit on on mutas, and Phoenix don't have to be the only counter to them. You could also tone down medivac boost marginally, so the muta nerf doesn't hit as hard.
I wish tankivacs were revisited, but that might be dead. The increased damage to compensate was an awesome way to go.
Look at immortal barrier, I'd just prefer the immortal from HOTS to be honest.
People talk about the "extremes" being what's fun, but I don't know about the current state. I think the ultra vs liberator dynamic bothers me the most.
Why not just increase the lockon range for cyclones by +1 default and +2 after the missle upgrade? Gives stalkers a +1 range buff along with blink and make it 200/200.
While I'm ranting, stop making each new team combination require 5 placements. Everytime I start a new team and crush silver players, I feel like I'm just disincentivizing them to continue trying to learn and play. If Im' masters in 4 teams already, why start all the way over with a new team... just take the average MMR or 1's or something.
There's a lot more, oh well. /rant Because if you're masters and your friend is masters, then you're probably team masters as well. The same may not be true if you're masters but your other friend is 1vs1 bronze.
Yeah - and how often does that happen, relatively. That's why I also mentioned you could take the average MMR of the 1's... so Master + Bronze = Plat/Gold
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On May 01 2016 10:29 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 10:07 Shield wrote:On May 01 2016 03:30 FabledIntegral wrote:
They went from such awesome changes to such terrible changes.
Let's reduce chitinous plating to +3 armor from +4 armor (if not +2 again like HOTS). We already have the marauder nerfed vs it, I don't know why we want Liberator/Ghost to be the option against that unit. The playstyles just aren't as fun (imo).
Let's do something like change muta regen to an upgrade at Hive, and consequently you don't need liberators to shit on on mutas, and Phoenix don't have to be the only counter to them. You could also tone down medivac boost marginally, so the muta nerf doesn't hit as hard.
I wish tankivacs were revisited, but that might be dead. The increased damage to compensate was an awesome way to go.
Look at immortal barrier, I'd just prefer the immortal from HOTS to be honest.
People talk about the "extremes" being what's fun, but I don't know about the current state. I think the ultra vs liberator dynamic bothers me the most.
Why not just increase the lockon range for cyclones by +1 default and +2 after the missle upgrade? Gives stalkers a +1 range buff along with blink and make it 200/200.
While I'm ranting, stop making each new team combination require 5 placements. Everytime I start a new team and crush silver players, I feel like I'm just disincentivizing them to continue trying to learn and play. If Im' masters in 4 teams already, why start all the way over with a new team... just take the average MMR or 1's or something.
There's a lot more, oh well. /rant Because if you're masters and your friend is masters, then you're probably team masters as well. The same may not be true if you're masters but your other friend is 1vs1 bronze. Yeah - and how often does that happen, relatively. That's why I also mentioned you could take the average MMR of the 1's... so Master + Bronze = Plat/Gold
Yes, you said average MMR. Maybe I'm just tired. It sounds ok then.
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No Guys, This is Fantastic.
PvZ: More strategic leeway. The change will enable Robo and Gateway Builds without any nerf to Phoenix builds.
TvZ: The difficulty of terran in the lategame against mass corruptor broodlord will be increased due to the liberator nerf. The thor will not make up for it. Maybe skilled thorivac can bruise ultras?
TvP: Void rays will be stronger against liberators? Thors probably still won't have a place
ZvP: Muta switch not game ending as easily. Swarm host builds a possibility to pressure a 3rd while teching into viper. This will be especially effective on maps with gold expansions, where dumping minerals into extra overlords is easier.
ZvT: Swarm Hosts not likely to be more useful. Broodlords and corruptors more effective.
PvP: No change.
TvT: The Thor-i-vac can have very interesting interactions against siege-i-vacs. The attack hits hard, thors have WAaaay more hp, and lifting the thor will allow it to follow a siege tank at equal cost. Plus it can attack the enemy medivac itself.
ZvZ: No change.
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The Thor change has some interesting implications for TvT. Right now, mixing in a few Vikings for air dominance is a powerful play, so much so that even top terrans like Maru and TY vie for a Viking lead early in the game. With the new damage on the Thor and its already impressive AA range, a player who loses the air battle or who chooses not to contest air dominance can easily zone out enemy Vikings. I have some doubts because the Thor is so immobile, but Medivac play might allow it to be viable.
On the TvZ side, I imagine Thor play to counter Ultralisks will become a good answer. Polt has already shown in his stream several times that Thor + Ghost is quite strong against Ultras and the rest of the Zerg lategame army (though it could be due to Polt's inherent superiority versus the players he faces on the NA ladder). Giving Thors a hard hitting AA attack would allow them to deal better damage to Corruptors and discourage a Broodlord switch, while still faring decently well against Ultralisks. Again, mobility could be a major detriment, but the Medivac may be the answer.
I don't see how the Thor AA buff will do anything against Tempests, though. You're going to have a hell of a time getting Thors close enough to take even a single shot at a Tempest. Poking with Thors against kiting Tempests protected by Protoss ground seems virtually impossible, even with medivac play.
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On May 01 2016 11:57 ThunderJunk wrote:
No Guys, This is Fantastic.
PvZ: More strategic leeway. The change will enable Robo and Gateway Builds without any nerf to Phoenix builds.
TvZ: The difficulty of terran in the lategame against mass corruptor broodlord will be increased due to the liberator nerf. The thor will not make up for it. Maybe skilled thorivac can bruise ultras?
TvP: Void rays will be stronger against liberators? Thors probably still won't have a place
ZvP: Muta switch not game ending as easily. Swarm host builds a possibility to pressure a 3rd while teching into viper. This will be especially effective on maps with gold expansions, where dumping minerals into extra overlords is easier.
ZvT: Swarm Hosts not likely to be more useful. Broodlords and corruptors more effective.
PvP: No change.
TvT: The Thor-i-vac can have very interesting interactions against siege-i-vacs. The attack hits hard, thors have WAaaay more hp, and lifting the thor will allow it to follow a siege tank at equal cost. Plus it can attack the enemy medivac itself.
ZvZ: No change.
Interesting...I'm more along the lines of
PvZ: Much less strategic leeway for Zerg when they barely had any in the first place. Mutalisks were already bad against Stargate openers which turned out to be more potent then Gateway centric openers for macro games. This is the nail in the coffin to pretty much never see Spire again except in extreme late game situations in the match up. Protoss were going to open Stargate regardless, Phoenix openers are just damn good, no real denying it, seizes tons of map control, pulls back overlords, kills drones and sometimes Queens very reliably, and can lift Lurkers and Ravagers.
TvZ: Liberators definitely needed a nerf but I feel like potentially scaling back the Marauder nerfs might be the way to go. Especially with Immortals overperforming at the top level of play, I don't see a reason why it can't be reverted, Liberators were OP enough to keep Terran strong in the meta, now that Corruptors will (justifiably so but still) beat them down I think Terrans are going to start suffering late game and become extremely aggressive with their builds and the fight will go back down to taking down the Zerg's fourth and going for the throat.
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I've been playing this game since beta and in all this time this has got to be the weirdest balance update I've seen.
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EPT
