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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Mutalisks were already bad against Stargate openers which turned out to be more potent then Gateway centric openers for macro games Protoss were going to open Stargate regardless Stargate openers are actually not amazing for the first 5 minutes of the game (other openers are both safer and more threatening) but your options are not as good in the 5-12 minute window without it | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On May 01 2016 11:57 ThunderJunk wrote: TvZ: The difficulty of terran in the lategame against mass corruptor broodlord will be increased due to the liberator nerf. The thor will not make up for it. Maybe skilled thorivac can bruise ultras? TvT: The Thor-i-vac can have very interesting interactions against siege-i-vacs. The attack hits hard, thors have WAaaay more hp, and lifting the thor will allow it to follow a siege tank at equal cost. Plus it can attack the enemy medivac itself.. The changed air attack doesn't change these unit relationships. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On April 30 2016 09:24 Charoisaur wrote: changes that are necessary: -liberator range upgrade removed -tempest 6 supply -ultra armor reverted -parasitic bomb removed from the game I know that I am 8 pages late on the reply, but I just have to. NO. Why do so many people want to remove parasitic bomb? It's exactly the thing we need to have in the game - something that is really good against mass air. Mass air is an idiotic strategy that completely ignores all terrain, makes for boring games and really one-dimensional gameplay. So if you desperately want to play that, at least don't cry that you have to split from time to time. Even though the changes are confusing, I must again compliment Blizzard for their stubborn refusal to listen to the nonsene the "community" produces. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
On May 01 2016 16:11 opisska wrote: I know that I am 8 pages late on the reply, but I just have to. NO. Why do so many people want to remove parasitic bomb? It's exactly the thing we need to have in the game - something that is really good against mass air. Mass air is an idiotic strategy that completely ignores all terrain, makes for boring games and really one-dimensional gameplay. So if you desperately want to play that, at least don't cry that you have to split from time to time. Even though the changes are confusing, I must again compliment Blizzard for their stubborn refusal to listen to the nonsene the "community" produces. If all races had their own parasitic bomb, things would equal out. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On May 01 2016 16:11 opisska wrote: I know that I am 8 pages late on the reply, but I just have to. NO. Why do so many people want to remove parasitic bomb? It's exactly the thing we need to have in the game - something that is really good against mass air. Mass air is an idiotic strategy that completely ignores all terrain, makes for boring games and really one-dimensional gameplay. So if you desperately want to play that, at least don't cry that you have to split from time to time. Why do people want to so significantly nerf liberator AA and why were they listened to? Why were zerg calls to nerf the raven into the ground listened to? Mass air for me, but not for thee? | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On May 01 2016 16:27 TheWinks wrote: Why do people want to so significantly nerf liberator AA and why were they listened to? Why were zerg calls to nerf the raven into the ground listened to? Mass air for me, but not for thee? The raven made it so that terran mass air was the ultimate lategame strategy, I think everybody acknowledged that. After the demise of bl-infestor, zerg never really had an "air deathball". However strong broodlords are, they just don't shoot air and corruptors exist solely for the reason that other races' air units are too strong to be fought from the ground. So there is a crucial difference - both terran and protoss now have air compositions that completely wreck everything on the ground, yet can take a fight against an air army, while zerg has to carefully balance between those two and even if he builds pure corruptors, they are pretty shit anyway. I agree that both terran and protoss could use a good weapon against each other's airball, but arguing that zerg having parasitic bomb is "unfair" is detached from reality. | ||
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Marl
United States692 Posts
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insitelol
845 Posts
This is pathetic to an extent it's becoming comical. The good part about this though is the more DK is dragging us into the abyss the faster he will get fired/sc2 be reworked/anything please but not this. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
etc etc etc etc etc | ||
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OzhMa
15 Posts
mod edit: link removed User was warned for this post | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15955 Posts
On May 01 2016 16:11 opisska wrote: I know that I am 8 pages late on the reply, but I just have to. NO. Why do so many people want to remove parasitic bomb? It's exactly the thing we need to have in the game - something that is really good against mass air. Mass air is an idiotic strategy that completely ignores all terrain, makes for boring games and really one-dimensional gameplay. So if you desperately want to play that, at least don't cry that you have to split from time to time. Even though the changes are confusing, I must again compliment Blizzard for their stubborn refusal to listen to the nonsene the "community" produces. the thing is parasitic bomb doesn't discourages mass air, it encourages it. if the zerg plays mass broodlords you can't beat them with ground units anymore and have to mass air units. Don't say I desperately want to play mass air because I don't try to fight 15 broodlords with marine thor cyclone or whatever. pls try fighting broodlords with only ground units and then say again that terran shouldn't be allowed to mass air units. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
As it is right now, Terran is struggling against Protoss. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On May 01 2016 19:14 OzhMa wrote: I think its time my fellow SC2 players. Its time we got rid of david kim. Sign my petition. mod edit: link removed User was warned for this post Well, this was not democratic if he runs a petition and someone removes it from his post. There's nothing wrong with free speech. On May 01 2016 19:33 xelnaga_empire wrote: I'm curioius, how will the Liberator nerf affect PvsT? As it is right now, Terran is struggling against Protoss. Probably not much. It's liberators' anti-ground damage that is the problem for protoss. | ||
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OzhMa
15 Posts
"TL is not your personal army. We do not allow people to post petitions like this. Thanks in advance for your cooperation, Seeker (Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.)" and this was the message i received how pathetic! My personal army? As you can see the huge majority of the community feels the same as I do and we need to get something done. the diablo 3 community united and got rid of a horrible designer, so why shouldnt we? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On May 01 2016 19:18 Charoisaur wrote: the thing is parasitic bomb doesn't discourages mass air, it encourages it. if the zerg plays mass broodlords you can't beat them with ground units anymore and have to mass air units. Don't say I desperately want to play mass air because I don't try to fight 15 broodlords with marine thor cyclone or whatever. pls try fighting broodlords with only ground units and then say again that terran shouldn't be allowed to mass air units. If a zerg has 15 broodlords, where does he have the supply for any other army? How does he defend more than two bases? How does he retain any buildings at the time when those broodlords cross the map? It's important that everything has a weakness, but it doesn't always have to be "the other air army is better", because the one-upping cannot be infinte and RPS situations are shallow. And even the pbomb is not a catch-all solution, good players can split, vipers can be killed. I am definitely puzzled by the thor nerf, if anything, GtA needs to be made stronger (and air generally weaker), but removing pbomb is completely backwards. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On May 01 2016 16:11 opisska wrote: I know that I am 8 pages late on the reply, but I just have to. NO. Why do so many people want to remove parasitic bomb? It's exactly the thing we need to have in the game - something that is really good against mass air. Mass air is an idiotic strategy that completely ignores all terrain, makes for boring games and really one-dimensional gameplay. So if you desperately want to play that, at least don't cry that you have to split from time to time. Even though the changes are confusing, I must again compliment Blizzard for their stubborn refusal to listen to the nonsene the "community" produces. While out of principle I agree with you on the front of mass air being stupid, Parasitic bomb is not the way to fix it. The way to fix air is a total reworking of all air units and ground to air interactions and power relations. Parasitic bomb treats the symptoms not the problems, and thus it creates more problems of its own, by actually helping zerg have its own idiotic air armada too. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On May 01 2016 20:15 Destructicon wrote: While out of principle I agree with you on the front of mass air being stupid, Parasitic bomb is not the way to fix it. The way to fix air is a total reworking of all air units and ground to air interactions and power relations. Parasitic bomb treats the symptoms not the problems, and thus it creates more problems of its own, by actually helping zerg have its own idiotic air armada too. I agree with that. Irradiate is already way strong against mutas in BW (only affects biological), parasitic bomb is idiotic and nearly binary as it deals damage faster over a larger area to all types and stays after death. A rework and nerf of air units and GtA is a lot better instead of treating the symptoms indeed. As it stands you just have a spell that deters a terrible symptom in a game that suffers in its air and GtA design and balance, the symptom of clumped overpowered air units dominating as a little air deathspot, still allowing it to happen but threatening it with another overpowered punish move. This is the kind of thing that brings volatility also and rewards attention-traps over strategy or tactics, pretty bad of course for a RTS (attention-traps should have limited consequences and not deter deeper decision making, otherwise you're better off playing a different genre of game that focuses on that). Arguably there are strong attention-traps in BW too such as storm drops and some other things, but in SC2 it is way worse and way out of balance to the overall game. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On May 01 2016 20:26 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I agree with that. Irradiate is already way strong against mutas in BW (only affects biological), parasitic bomb is idiotic and nearly binary as it deals damage faster over a larger area to all types and stays after death. A rework and nerf of air units and GtA is a lot better instead of treating the symptoms indeed. As it stands you just have a spell that deters a terrible symptom in a game that suffers in its air and GtA design and balance, the symptom of clumped overpowered air units dominating as a little air deathball, still allowing it to happen but threatening it with another overpowered punish move. This is the kind of thing that brings volatility also and rewards attention-traps over strategy or tactics. Is pbomb really such a problem at high levels, though? I haven't really seen it that often, which was almost surprising to me, because I built vipers for that sole reason every single game ... but then I see it sometimes and people can split and it doesn't do that much damage. Still it probably acts as a deterent. I am not trying to argue, that there are possibly better ways to break the airball, but given the current state, just removing pbomb without any other big changes doesn't seem to help anything to me. And I personally enjoy it, because I play mostly diamond 2v2s and there every second game there is a toss hiding behind a friend, building the "ultimate army" and now with pbomb, I finally feel like I can really contribute to beating it (or, better, just kill it myself). With this stupid strategy essentially off the table, the rest of the game is more enjoyable. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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