EPTMaps are x- and y- axis lanes; they're like engagement test maps.
Games play out too fragile-like; Tier 2 and 3 come so quickly, etc...
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
Maps are x- and y- axis lanes; they're like engagement test maps. Games play out too fragile-like; Tier 2 and 3 come so quickly, etc... | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On May 02 2016 03:03 Empirimancer wrote: We've also seen a BW-like economy, There is nothing BW-like with the LotV economy. I know BW, and LotV aint it. On May 02 2016 03:03 Empirimancer wrote: the semi-removal of boring or skill-less or deathball-favoring units like the Colossus and Swarm Host, Units that they previously thought up and added to the game. Units that had been critisized since day 1. On May 02 2016 03:03 Empirimancer wrote: the speeding up of the early game, Which some people also dont like. On May 02 2016 03:03 Empirimancer wrote: LotV has some problems, but overall it's much better than WoL and HotS. Sometimes I wonder what SC2's popularity would be like right now if LotV had been the initial game. Believe it or not but some people do not agree with your opinion. To me SC2 got worse with each new iteration. It is true though that LotV tried to go back to the BW roots more then the other expansions. So perhaps it would have been more positively received if it came out first. | ||
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Comedy
487 Posts
Unfortunately his thinking patterns are very wrong, but this is nothing new and he has proven it again and again. At this point, I would love a new person doing the job. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
I know they talk alot, but still, they said they might do bigger changes in the future and thats what hit me. If they truly believe this themself then they cant really believe this game is a top notch game, but since they are a company there is no way they would tell this but instead keep it internally. Ofcourse if nothing happens then they might actually believe this game is top notch. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On May 02 2016 06:27 Foxxan wrote: well personally i really think some devs do not found this game top notch by any mean I know they talk alot, but still, they said they might do bigger changes in the future and thats what hit me. If they truly believe this themself then they cant really believe this game is a top notch game, but since they are a company there is no way they would tell this but instead keep it internally. Ofcourse if nothing happens then they might actually believe this game is top notch. I don't think Blizzard believe they've done their job perfectly or that SC2 is going well. I guess Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch are their new attempt to adapt to market. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On May 02 2016 05:35 Comedy wrote: You can get in the brain of david kim through these changes. Unfortunately his thinking patterns are very wrong, but this is nothing new and he has proven it again and again. At this point, I would love a new person doing the job. I'll be the first to admit, designing a really great game like BW is hard. But when you get everything right, you have a game so good it can create an entire new industry of sports. Which is why I think it's totally stupid to deviate so far from the formula and the things that made it successful. Odds are, you're going to fail and that's exactly what happened. Compare this with CSGO. Yes there are differences with 1.6 but it wasn't massively rebalanced and reshuffled like SC2. As a result it's huge and it's even getting a nationally televised league on TBS now. Unfortunately we are now in the glorious era of Activision Blizzard. Far from learning from their mistakes we get things like Nostalrius to rub salt in the wounds. Like SC2 it appears they are taking another once-great game and running it into the ground. Blizzard still has a lot of fanboys so I'm sure Overwatch will make some money and then be promptly forgotten like most other games, but I'm not one of them anymore. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On May 02 2016 04:34 WeddingEpisode wrote: Massive Units are too fast, in fact all units' speeds are too uniform. Maps are x- and y- axis lanes; they're like engagement test maps. Games play out too fragile-like; Tier 2 and 3 come so quickly, etc... Tier 3 comes so quickly, tier 2 doesn't even happen | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
On May 02 2016 08:10 InfCereal wrote: Tier 3 comes so quickly, tier 2 doesn't even happen Sure it does t2 includes a ton of popular units like hydralisk, tank, phoenix, immortal etc | ||
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Parser
Italy88 Posts
On May 02 2016 07:38 BaronVonOwn wrote: I'll be the first to admit, designing a really great game like BW is hard. But when you get everything right, you have a game so good it can create an entire new industry of sports. Which is why I think it's totally stupid to deviate so far from the formula and the things that made it successful. Odds are, you're going to fail and that's exactly what happened. Compare this with CSGO. Yes there are differences with 1.6 but it wasn't massively rebalanced and reshuffled like SC2. As a result it's huge and it's even getting a nationally televised league on TBS now. Unfortunately we are now in the glorious era of Activision Blizzard. Far from learning from their mistakes we get things like Nostalrius to rub salt in the wounds. Like SC2 it appears they are taking another once-great game and running it into the ground. Blizzard still has a lot of fanboys so I'm sure Overwatch will make some money and then be promptly forgotten like most other games, but I'm not one of them anymore. Well, BW was popular only in korea at the time that SC2 came out. If SC2 would have been like BW I think it would have seen no success in the western community. Sure BW was a great game, it had no deathball problem, maybe its economy was better (i personally do not think so) but the point is that in BW the player is costantly fighting the UI and today a game like that will never be a casual success. So something had to be changed. You can debate if SC2 had the right changes or not, but saying that Blizz should have simply remade BW does not seem the answer. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On May 02 2016 15:32 Parser wrote: Well, BW was popular only in korea at the time that SC2 came out. If SC2 would have been like BW I think it would have seen no success in the western community. Sure BW was a great game, it had no deathball problem, maybe its economy was better (i personally do not think so) but the point is that in BW the player is costantly fighting the UI and today a game like that will never be a casual success. So something had to be changed. You can debate if SC2 had the right changes or not, but saying that Blizz should have simply remade BW does not seem the answer. SC1 was a massive hit in the west too. When it came out like 20 years ago. I played the game as a kid a lot and I am sure others did too. Maybe it wasnt a big esports hit but you have to keep in mind that there wasnt really any esports in the west at that time. And there are deathballs in BW. Its a very important aspect of the game. Terran mech and protoss in general is all about death balls. But they work differently and you can actually deal with them. I would even go as far as saying that death ball battles are my favorites in BW. Seeing a never ending tank line clash with a totally OP zerg swarm or getting blasted by zealot bombs, storms and stasis is just awesome. | ||
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Wrath
3176 Posts
Believe it or not but some people do not agree with your opinion. To me SC2 got worse with each new iteration. It is true though that LotV tried to go back to the BW roots more then the other expansions. So perhaps it would have been more positively received if it came out first. I completely disagree that in LotV they tried to go to BW roots. If anything they went further and further away from it. To me, the end of HotS was the best era. If only Vipers were fixed to help zerg vs Mech, Protoss death ball issue addressed along with Skytoss, together with Mech viability in TvP. HotS would have been the closest to BW among the 3 expansions. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On May 02 2016 16:06 Wrath wrote: I completely disagree that in LotV they tried to go to BW roots. If anything they went further and further away from it. To me, the end of HotS was the best era. If only Vipers were fixed to help zerg vs Mech, Protoss death ball issue addressed along with Skytoss, together with Mech viability in TvP. HotS would have been the closest to BW among the 3 expansions. Most of it happened because of miscommunication. People wanted more micro for Protoss. What have we received? A skill button for every unit in Protoss arsenal. Pressing buttons = micro. Who cares, people wnated that awesome stalker micro on some other units... And we can go on like that, it's sad but it won't be changed because big ass redesign isn't a thing  | ||
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Glorfindel!
Sweden1815 Posts
On May 02 2016 08:10 InfCereal wrote: Tier 3 comes so quickly, tier 2 doesn't even happen Well, Zest did crush TY with pure gateway units in 4 games. I love how TvP is so much about the basic units (Zealots, Stalkers, Adepts vs Marine + Marauder) with both sides having support units (medivacs / Libs / Mines vs Immortal and Warp Prism). Compared to HoTS when Protoss just relied on Collosus and storm to stand a chance, it is really refreshing to see the gateway units stand their ground vs bio. However, Ultras comes way to fast in my opinion in TvZ. In TvT I dont think a single T3 unit is used :D | ||
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Kiwan
Australia36 Posts
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SpiritOfChicago
19 Posts
As for most commenters on this thread, you are whiners. Pathetic, negative-nancy-whiners. For people like you, there is always something wrong. I don't want to imagine what would happen if Blizzard listened to any of you. User was warned for this post | ||
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SpiritOfChicago
19 Posts
On May 02 2016 17:40 Kiwan wrote: I think overall it's a good patch. I would like to see the thor receive an extra armour though. It would make it such a better tanking unit, and at it's cost and immobility it needs to be. I would like to agree with you, Mister. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On May 02 2016 18:07 SpiritOfChicago wrote: I agree with all changes Blizzard is making. THey put a lot of thought into it, it seems. As for most commenters on this thread, you are whiners. Pathetic, negative-nancy-whiners. For people like you, there is always something wrong. I don't want to imagine what would happen if Blizzard listened to any of you. What do you mean? Any criticism is "whining" to you? | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On May 02 2016 03:03 Empirimancer wrote: We've also seen a BW-like economy, the semi-removal of boring or skill-less or deathball-favoring units like the Colossus and Swarm Host, the speeding up of the early game, less reliance on tier 3 AoE units for Protoss, and so on. LotV has some problems, but overall it's much better than WoL and HotS. Sometimes I wonder what SC2's popularity would be like right now if LotV had been the initial game. The current economy is nothing like bw's economy. As a zerg in brood war I can literally be on 6-7 mining bases with 70-80 drones. There's no such thing in Sc2. Bases also last a long, long time in brood war. On average a fully saturated base lasts about 18-20 minutes. Tell me again how the economies are even remotely similar? Maybe the 12 worker starts? Precisely the opposite of brood war where you start with 4 workers and it actually takes time to get tier 2 and tier 3 units out? Speeding up the early game isn't necessarily a good thing. Less distinct game phases. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Also, the Hydra is the most glaring example of a unit that has a very narrow window of time where it's useful. Zerg suffers a lot from this: Roaches/ravagers become just meatshields in the lategame because they have slow rate of fire; lings and hydras are just too squishy. Would love to see this generalist midgame unit become something useful in the lategame instead of being phased out by specialist units (corruptors, ultras, vipers, broodlors, infestors...). To achieve that, Hydras could get a Hive tech upgrade that gives them like +15hp, allowing them to survive a Lib shot. | ||
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