EPTI swear it feels like there is just one guy working part time on SC2 design and balance. It's sad to see SC2 in this state.
Upcoming Balance Update - May 3rd - Page 13
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
I swear it feels like there is just one guy working part time on SC2 design and balance. It's sad to see SC2 in this state. | ||
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ionONE
Germany605 Posts
He is balancing the game since 2010 or smth and probably knows the consequences if he drops the patch pre event. I don´t get. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On May 02 2016 23:00 ihatevideogames wrote: So how is terran supossed to play vs Z lategame now? If it gets to a point where we're both heading towards maxed lategame scenario, what is T supossed to do? Is this another 'don't let them get there :^)' era? Would've thought protoss will be even more impossible. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
Thors will now be useless against Mutas. We're left with WMs which are too stationary to defend effectively vs those highspeed fast regen Mutas and we have Liberators. Liberators get nerfed into the ground vs armored air though. Corruptors will eat them alive. Mech is now even more forced into building a wide array of unit types that try to cover each other's weaknesses, ending up with an army that could fight everything, but nothing really well. Just concentrating on one will leave huge holes, so the next techswitch of the opponent will kill you. Leaving the Thor as is and giving the Cyclone a buff, so it can be the anti-armored-air unit, would be the better solution imo (Liberator could be nerfed in that case even). | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
More specifically then, Thors, need a mechanic to be better not so much this sort of a buff. The scenario that plays out is like the maru thor rushes in lotv or the old Bbyong mech games. The micro actions are lift, adjust camera, move, drop, select thors, target, and abort is a second camera action. Its 5-6 actions to move the thor into position to damage with 2 camera actions to abort to counter the late game aoe of the tempests and brood lords which is countered by a single micro action of target fire on the medivac by zerg, or feedback onto the medivac by templar as protoss, or target fired by protoss tempests. What is actually needed for thors to be useful with this is a single micro action with the thors so that when thors use an ability the medivacs pick them up. move them into range, drop them and the thors shoot if this were an upgrade maybe thors would make more sense, but given immortals. They still will be rare TvP and given the micro actions of the unit, i doubt you'd see them used TvZ. This is effectively then a buff TvT to target tanks, and not necessarily useful in other places even with the huge buff. | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On April 30 2016 09:01 [PkF] Wire wrote: Photon Cannon = definitely wrong change made. Not only does this change kills mutalisks, it also makes mothership + air + cannons/storm even more unbreakable. Really not a fine change. The other ones should be more or less harmless. +1 somebody that understands PvX late game. What is needed more for protoss is a slow on the mutalisks. Protoss will never have enough minerals for this to be effectively viable. I want to remind people the cannon buff suggestion came from a player that has never ever once played a ladder game. See link for proof. | ||
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Dabble
39 Posts
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Epitoi
20 Posts
just have a try with it, I share my build : 2facto > 4thors rush with marines support seems to be an awesome midgame push 14depot 16rax 18CC marine OC 2x gas marine depot, 3rd gas before CC @natual is finished <> @100gas factory +reactor (after3marines) > 2 mines (3:20, set them in front vs Z and in mineral line vs T and P) @100% factory build 2nd factory + armory +techlab on rax switch back rax on reactor and factory on techlab... build 2 thors asap and +1 def (4:20) push with 4 thors and marines, and with 12-16 scvs on auto repair http://ggtracker.com/matches/6625218 http://ggtracker.com/matches/6625219 | ||
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Tankz123
Denmark228 Posts
On May 03 2016 18:49 Epitoi wrote: Stop whining fellow terrans ! In my opinio the new thor destroys immortals (35+15 damage) and armored units. so it is a mech buff no ? just have a try with it, I share my build : 2facto > 4thors rush with marines support seems to be an awesome midgame push 14depot 16rax 18CC marine OC 2x gas marine depot, 3rd gas before CC @natual is finished <> @100gas factory +reactor (after3marines) > 2 mines (3:20, set them in front vs Z and in mineral line vs T and P) @100% factory build 2nd factory + armory +techlab on rax switch back rax on reactor and factory on techlab... build 2 thors asap and +1 def (4:20) push with 4 thors and marines, and with 12-16 scvs on auto repair http://ggtracker.com/matches/6625218 http://ggtracker.com/matches/6625219 last time i checked immortals weren't flying units. | ||
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Epitoi
20 Posts
On May 03 2016 18:53 Tankz123 wrote: last time i checked immortals weren't flying units. 1st point : I said stop whining. 2nd point : Thors have different purpose NOW. they destroy everything that is armored so use them on that purpose ! that's it. Stop talking about late game, just win before it happens. 3rd point : watch replay, try the build, developp it, enjoy. 4th point : restart from 1st point. | ||
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JayuSC2
Austria32 Posts
PS: Is the patch out on EU? | ||
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heqat
Switzerland96 Posts
On May 03 2016 19:39 JayuSC2 wrote: I don't understand why there would be any reason to nerf mutalisks against P. Actually P even got a buff against Mutalisks since LOTV, with the pylon cannons. Why is it suddenly a problem when it wasn't in HOTS? Yea, that's weird. I don't think it will change anything to the current meta. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 03 2016 18:58 Epitoi wrote: 1st point : I said stop whining. 2nd point : Thors have different purpose NOW. they destroy everything that is armored so use them on that purpose ! that's it. Stop talking about late game, just win before it happens. 3rd point : watch replay, try the build, developp it, enjoy. 4th point : restart from 1st point. But only the anti air attack was changed. So it does not affect the interaction of Thors and Immortals. Your push might be good but it's the same as before the patch. It's still a mech buff though, at least in tvt, since Liberators (they are one of the main reasons why mech was not viable in tvt) will be easier to deal with. Vikings are better against Liberators now since they take less damage and Thors can also snipe them faster. I actually like the Terran changes, but the cannon and SH changes seem really weird and don't make sense to me. | ||
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Tankz123
Denmark228 Posts
On May 03 2016 18:58 Epitoi wrote: 1st point : I said stop whining. 2nd point : Thors have different purpose NOW. they destroy everything that is armored so use them on that purpose ! that's it. Stop talking about late game, just win before it happens. 3rd point : watch replay, try the build, developp it, enjoy. 4th point : restart from 1st point. 1: I'm not, i just pointed out an obvious flaw in your "logic" of this "buff" 2: Again, they do nothing different to ground units. 3: Two replays of you all-inned isnt gonna convince me sorry. 4: no On a serious note, i doubt the thor change will have much affect at all for "mech", because it doesnt solve the fundamental issues of it. Mass thor isnt gonna shut down carriers, tempest, BL's, etc. its still gonna be the same stomp as usual. Overall the patch seems rather "meh", but we'll have to wait and see what pro players can conjure out of this. | ||
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RichardNPL
185 Posts
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raff100
498 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On May 03 2016 17:16 Dabble wrote: I like the swarmhost change because it makes it easier to build a few swarmhosts, snipe a building or tech (which seems to be their role now), and then allow them to die and remax. The lower cost makes the penalty for losing them not as big a deal and since they're a unit in this situation you only need temporarily, and not in max-on-max army fights, the supply hit doesn't matter as much either. 150/75 @ 4 supply is hardly a cheap disposable unit. Its a shit change for a shit unit. They should remove it and give people who bought HoTS a refund | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On May 03 2016 16:42 tokinho wrote: +1 somebody that understands PvX late game. What is needed more for protoss is a slow on the mutalisks. Protoss will never have enough minerals for this to be effectively viable. I want to remind people the cannon buff suggestion came from a player that has never ever once played a ladder game. See link for proof. Or, Blizzard though it was a good idea and made a change that happened to be what someone else had suggested. Just because someone else suggested it doesn't mean that Blizzard was swayed by that person. Also, FYI, the person who suggested it does have career games logged. I'm not saying the change is the right change, but remember that people thought the adept change wasn't enough, and it certainly brought up the T winrates vs Protoss. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On May 04 2016 01:35 Topdoller wrote: 150/75 @ 4 supply is hardly a cheap disposable unit. Its a shit change for a shit unit. They should remove it and give people who bought HoTS a refund Nobody bought hots for the swarm hosts. 99% of people didn't even buy it for the multiplayer. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20743714991 Hey everyone. We wanted to issue a community feedback update early this week after seeing your feedback around the planned patch we were going to apply today. After reading your feedback, it seemed pretty clear that there is not much support for the proposed changes, so we decided to cancel this week’s balance update and get into more details of what’s happening because community feedback around the changes seems to have changed completely this week. Just a couple weeks ago when we started testing the latest changes, the perception seemed very positive. However, this week, what we’re seeing is completely different. We have some guesses as to why this happened as well as some proposals on how to improve our process going forward, but let’s talk about the specific changes. Protoss Buff vs. Mutalisks Previously, this topic seemed to be clearly important to the community, but it seems to have completely changed the other way. Even though Mutalisks are clearly not an issue at the top of pro level, we believed it was a heavy community issue, so we located a change that would have minimal impact at the pro lvl, while looking to help the average skilled player. We’re not exactly sure why the major switch happened here, but we wonder if a lot of it is the meta game having shifted from Protoss being underpowered against Zerg to the matchup being a lot more even than we initially believed. Other changes The other changes we believe are more straight forward. Like many of you point out, we probably didn’t have enough testing time on the other changes and we should gather more feedback over the next week or two before committing to these changes. Also, there seemed to be less of an understanding as to why we have been moving the way we have with testing out different changes. We wonder if many players out there are getting left behind or stuck in an old line of thinking while another group has moved on. We believe this creates a lot of confusion, and we believe this is a major flaw in our current process which we would like to improve going forward. Communication Process Improvements There are a few things that we think we can improve. First, we believe we can be more proactive about gauging the community’s stance on specific topics. At regular intervals, we would like to begin asking you guys if we are hearing you correctly. This will allow us to double check and make sure there hasn’t been a major change in what the community wants, or that we’re not misunderstanding you. Second, we can do better on providing a “post-mortem” for our Balance Test Map changes to analyze which changes were effective or not effective. This should also help us keep moving at a similar pace in terms of reasoning. Third, we will try to be more concise with our messaging to be as clear as possible. Because we tried to get into every detail of every reasoning, we believe this caused some confusion due to how much information we were giving in such short time periods. Instead, we would like to do more updates every week, but each update will be smaller with less details to help with this issue. If there are more suggestions here, we can definitely look into further improvements to our current process. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback, we’ll have more to discuss as the week continues. Next Balance Patch We will have more details coming later this week, and a new test map up early the week after. We are definitely aiming for around 5/22 ~ 5/23 to solidify many of the changes to patch to the live game so let's stay focused both on discussions as well as playtesting as soon as the test map is up early next week. We're pushing very hard on this front not just on the community side but working very heavily with the pro players as well to nail this down. Besides the issues we're currently working through, the other issues we're currently thinking on are: potential immortal nerfs due to heavy pro player feedback around this being an absolute necessity, potential colossus buffs, and Cyclone changes. | ||
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