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CyanApple
48 Posts
On April 30 2016 12:09 Granwyth wrote: Why not leave the Liberator as is, but move it to the tech lab? This will keep it badass while limiting them to a reasonable number. What are the disadvantages? This seems the most reasonable to me as well, as it allows for scouting and an appropriate response, which is key in a strategy game imo. | ||
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90ti
United States100 Posts
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KatatoniK
United Kingdom978 Posts
The need for more bases helps Zerg production too, the more hatches they have, the more units they can produce while Protoss still has to invest in infrastructure such as gateways. What do Protoss get to help boost production? Ah yes a significantly nerfed Chronoboost. In the current meta, if Protoss don't do a lot of econ damage or take a favourable fight, its gg. Protoss just doesn't have the remax capability while Zerg can just look at the Protoss comp and build a whole new army that outright counters the Protoss. As for those complaining about PICA, the sad reality is, that's the only thing Protoss has that is vaguely viable in the current meta. Phoenix allows us to survive the early game to get the rest out, which we then need in order to deal with stuff like lurkers, hydras and roaches. Protoss lacks decent AoE currently. Disruptors are awful and coinflippy, Storm is ok but in a big fight HTs are usually just dead supply and are better tanking as archons. As for Collossi they're about as viable as a chocolate teapot. Aside from PvZ. The lib nerf isn't enough, they need the range upgrade either flat out removing or scaled back. Libs are far too good at zoning out armies currently. Transition to Tempest, sure is viable but the T has to let you get to that point. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16081 Posts
On April 30 2016 17:53 Tyrhanius wrote: Thors had more range than broodlords on WOL/HOTS. And thors and broodlords have just 1 range difference on lotv, but are faster than broodlords. Aslo there is a long casting time on broodlings, and thors have time to get in range and shoot broodlords. Your remark is just troll, marines and roach have just one range difference, so marines shouldn't be hit by roaches unless Terran is bad then ? Honestly, as zerg i prefer the old thor, this one is more scary if he can counter broodlords. At least vs splash air dmg you can split. If you add photon buff, nerf carrier/skytoss, we all know skytoss camper love camping under toons of photon and mass air/carrier, unless you want to promote noob style and invincible deathball... I really hope this post was a joke and you don't really think the thor - broodlord interaction is comparable to the marine - roach interaction. otherwise I might have to question your intelligence. | ||
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saalih416
19 Posts
I've noticed there are now even new unit classes and specific unit damages to help aid balancing which, I'd presume,adds more factors which would lead to harder attempts at balancing the game. Oh and let's not forget that some balance changes are for the sole purpose of making the game easier for people that whine about their inability to micro and multitask. From my understanding, BW was an expansion to the original to introduce units that filled crucial roles (dealing with mass units I think was the main issue). There's a lot of role overlapping in SC2 from the excess of units for the sake of their being more units. For example, the Widow Mine overlaps a bit with the Siege Tank, Liberator feels like a flying Siege Tank- it also shares the Thor AA vs light role... I'm only making a comparison with BW because it's the only other RTS that I know well but for BW, I can't think of a single unit role overlapping with another in a race. I just see the same pattern whenever there's a new Balance Update released. It just feels like the game is trying to balance innate problems. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3502 Posts
The other three feel wrong too but it s hard to tell without trying so let's see. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
I've even identified a few SC2 units from Red Alert 2 (David Kim was involved with that game too) Dustin Browder, game designer. Not David kim | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 30 2016 19:32 Charoisaur wrote: It's a joke to think that in WoL/HotS a broodlord can avoid being shot at by a unit that outranges them. In LotV, the attack delay is long enough that the thor will get within range to shoot anyways. It would be just as silly to suggest that a terran player that lets their marines sit within range of roaches has done something wrong, as the interactions are different, but the comparison to the ridiculous statement is valid.I really hope this post was a joke and you don't really think the thor - broodlord interaction is comparable to the marine - roach interaction. otherwise I might have to question your intelligence. Anyways my opinions: Photon Cannon buff: Pointless as the stated aim was to discourage pheonix openers. Protoss will still open pheonix, as they have been since WoL and if anything the changes in economy made them more effective. Thor: Changed from anti-muta to anti broodlord. Maybe it is more effective against Battlecruisers, a unit rarely seen in TvT. The unit seems to be changed to justify the strange liberator nerf. Liberator: It will help prevent moments when liberators utterly decimate corruptors somewhat, but liberators will still splash corruptors and mutalisks even when magic boxed. In effect, instead of doing the obvious anti-air nerf of reducing the splash radius, Blizzard has opted to change the Thor to make the liberator the dedicated anti mutalisk unit. In the end the liberator is just as strong in detering large amounts of mutalisks. Swarm Host: The only thing I can think of that the change encourage is to make swarm hosts in a disposable midgame timing attack. Cheaper so you build them and then sac them before the 4 supply becomes a problem. In practice i think the other player avoids or counter attacks and kill the swarmhost player. | ||
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Gen.Rolly
United States200 Posts
On April 30 2016 19:32 Charoisaur wrote: I really hope this post was a joke and you don't really think the thor - broodlord interaction is comparable to the marine - roach interaction. otherwise I might have to question your intelligence. I question your intelligence and more so your insecurity in hiding behind 5 cent insults that mean absolutely jack shit. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
Not that I've seen a lot of big Muta flocks since LotV but still. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
I have hard time firguring out why one would think about thors vs broodlords when seeing this patch. I don't mean Thor won't be usefull vs BL, I haven't tested mass Thors vs Mass BL in unit tester yet (if one of you did it, please post the result) BUT to me the sheer logic shows that this patch is intended to change the way terrans deal with corruptors and to adress TvP late game. Nowadays : you need liberators to both deal with the corruptos and the ultralisks. Sure, ghosts will help with their snipe but they're expensive and squishy, and require even more micro. Anyway, it's hard to not loose every liberators on each engagenemt, cause once you sieged them to kill ultra, they can't defend themselves against corruptors, and by the time your vikings take them out, you're in trouble. The typical outcome of such a battle for me, is the Zerg goes back but has saved some ultralisks and most of the corruptors. On the other hand the terran is left with marauders, marines and medivacs, he lost all his liberators and ghost. So, even if the Terran doesn't loose the fight, he looses his most important/expensive units while the zergs keeps his high tech expensive ones. After a few fight like this, the Zerg will win because the Terran can only rebuild so many lib/ghosts and his army's quality is just worse and worse after each battle. What I hope from this patch : libs zone the ultralisks out, thors kill the corruptors (4 thors 1 shot a corruptor) Thors might even be usefull as meat wall agains ultras... This seems to me an easiest way to deal with the zerg late game army than before. And if BL come, I believe the vikings will be the easiest answer as they've always been. One legit concern though is, imho, you might be forced into a slow, turtly army which would feel like old HotS mech.... Anyway, many people express interesting opinions, but not a lot of facts are showed. Can the people that are in absolute rage against this patch post their balance map replays so we can understand their views? Cause I keep reading them and I fail to find much sense out of them. I'm a slow thinker, I need pictures and replays to understand. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On April 30 2016 20:39 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It does kind of make sense that blizzard changed the thor to an anti corruptor unit, but they did so without telling anyone of their intentions. Anyhow your little story of unit interactions is somewhat laughable. Ok, you might not be aware but we have community feedbacks every weekd + various interviews. The Thor AA is a subject that has been talked about since january or something. Second, I'm ready to admit that I'm wrong and that you're a superior player, but I will need better explanations and proofs to admit it. I'm laughable, fine, I like to laugh, just enlighten me... | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On April 30 2016 20:31 Gwavajuice wrote: Guys, why are you talking about broodlords? I have hard time firguring out why one would think about thors vs broodlords when seeing this patch. I don't mean Thor won't be usefull vs BL, I haven't tested mass Thors vs Mass BL in unit tester yet (if one of you did it, please post the result) BUT to me the sheer logic shows that this patch is intended to change the way terrans deal with corruptors and to adress TvP late game. Nowadays : you need liberators to both deal with the corruptos and the ultralisks. Sure, ghosts will help with their snipe but they're expensive and squishy, and require even more micro. Anyway, it's hard to not loose every liberators on each engagenemt, cause once you sieged them to kill ultra, they can't defend themselves against corruptors, and by the time your vikings take them out, you're in trouble. The typical outcome of such a battle for me, is the Zerg goes back but has saved some ultralisks and most of the corruptors. On the other hand the terran is left with marauders, marines and medivacs, he lost all his liberators and ghost. So, even if the Terran doesn't loose the fight, he looses his most important/expensive units while the zergs keeps his high tech expensive ones. After a few fight like this, the Zerg will win because the Terran can only rebuild so many lib/ghosts and his army's quality is just worse and worse after each battle. What I hope from this patch : libs zone the ultralisks out, thors kill the corruptors (4 thors 1 shot a corruptor) Thors might even be usefull as meat wall agains ultras... This seems to me an easiest way to deal with the zerg late game army than before. And if BL come, I believe the vikings will be the easiest answer as they've always been. One legit concern though is, imho, you might be forced into a slow, turtly army which would feel like old HotS mech.... Anyway, many people express interesting opinions, but not a lot of facts are showed. Can the people that are in absolute rage against this patch post their balance map replays so we can understand their views? Cause I keep reading them and I fail to find much sense out of them. I'm a slow thinker, I need pictures and replays to understand. The thing you don't see is since 2012 there is a trend going on stronger and stronger. Since SC2 is not biggest fish in the pond people trend to sh*t talk EVERYTHING that Blizzards posts. Whenever its WoW,SC2,HotS,D3,OverWatch and HS. And if the game and community is smaller and smaller (prolly stagnates now) the toxicity increase is multiplied. So thats why you will rarely see constructive feedback. People log in just to sh*t on Blizzard  | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
We need at least a month to decide his purpose is to prevent mass air vs mass air or just give ground mech have easier time when they move out to trade and slowly transition into air and mass air vs mass air still exist. Not a single positive feedback in this thread zzzzzz | ||
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Creager
Germany1946 Posts
On April 30 2016 20:59 PharaphobiaSC wrote: The thing you don't see is since 2012 there is a trend going on stronger and stronger. Since SC2 is not biggest fish in the pond people trend to sh*t talk EVERYTHING that Blizzards posts. Whenever its WoW,SC2,HotS,D3,OverWatch and HS. And if the game and community is smaller and smaller (prolly stagnates now) the toxicity increase is multiplied. So thats why you will rarely see constructive feedback. People log in just to sh*t on Blizzard To be perfectly honest, over the last couple of years Blizzard's policy of how to make games has changed drastically, in my opinion not for the better - sure, financially some of their decisions have been a huge success, but I have to admit, as a player the content the company has been delivering as of late is appealing less and less to me. Given the amount of shit Blizzard is taking on a regular basis is kind of understandable to me, not necessarily justified. But it's frustrating to follow the course of a developer for such a long time, growing up playing their games and then realize they're slowly drifting away to other business models and kind of games while trying to pretend they're still doing the same. I think it's just my personal tale of growing up, after all lol. | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5524 Posts
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
Now I am a terran player but the way that mutas plays out in pvz looks fucking retarded. So I guess it is good they are looking at it but I find this to be a very lazy fix. Maybe give stalker aa dmg bonus vs light instead? Swarm host, if I have to play against swarm host+nydus harass I might kill myself.... please just remove this unit..... | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
so back to ravager all-ins every game | ||
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Mojzii1
30 Posts
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