EPTGreatest HotS Players of All Time: Part 3 - Page 2
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 18 2016 12:02 Ensiferum8 wrote: The problem is that his list is not a random you see on reddit, its on TL, the most prestigious sc2 website, on the Featured news (not general discussion) Granted it should nto be taken like the bible, btu it should be somewhat respectable, unbias and logical. If he made a lot of researchs, he would not have written such a garbage top 15. When you make a top list that thousands will see, you got to be professional and unbias. He didnt cared at all about PL, probaly the most important league/tournament for koreans (with GSL), otherwise Life would not be #1. Ask the majority of people if they would put sOs in their top 5, the vast majority would say yes, probaly in their top 3, probably #1 even. Ask most people if they would put Taeja (even though I love him) above Inno, above sOs, above Zest even, most people would say no. The fact that a writer like stuchiu made a list that would be read by thousands and didnt even care to do it well and without bias is what makes me disappointed. If he had put Life #1, inno #2, sOs#3, i woudl have disagree, but it would make at least mroee sense. Now thats just bullshit I really shouldn't feed the troll, but here we go: You say Life shouldn't be number one because of his PL results (which you say is about the same lvl of importance as gsl). If that's your argument, why should sOs be number one (no most people would definitely not say that sOs should be number one) when he pretty much did the same in GSL? Where is your "consistency" here? It's also arguable that proleague results should have the same meaning as starleague results, but sure i simply took that as a given here (i agree that PL is important though) Stuchiu isn't biased, he simply chose priorities and made a list based on that. You can disagree with his method (i do so too to some extent) but all you really do is flame him for no apparent reason. If anything you are pretty "biased". | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
For Taeja nothing is more important than whatever weekend tournaments he happens to be playing in at any given point in time. You CANNOT compare that to a KeSPA player who has fifty other priorities and isn't used to the stresses of flying around the world right before a big game or playing in front of a foreign audience. Note if you will how well Polt and MC - globe trotters themselves - match up against him, while players like Maru and Zest get blown right out. Extremely disappointing to see Korean starleagues held in such low regard. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 18 2016 11:24 GTPGlitch wrote: "caters to fan favorites" Puts herO above Zest & Rain & soO, polt before taeja, byul being on the list at all A good solid lack of bias there I see. herO v Zest is close but herO deserves the higher rank: Zest won 1 GSL; herO won 1 SSL - even Zest won IEM Katowice 2015; herO won 3 IEMs - advantage herO Zest and herO each won 1 Kespa Cup - even Zest tied herO for most Proleague wins in 2015; herO tied for most Proleague wins in 2014 & 2015 - advantage herO Zest won GSL Global Tourney and IesF 2014; herO won Shoutcraft 2014 - advantage Zest Zest 2nd IEM Toronto 2014; herO 2nd IEM Katowice 2014 & Kespa Cup 2014 - advantage herO Zest no 2013 results; herO Code S Ro32 Season 3 – basically even Zest 2014 Code S Ro4 and Ro8; herO Code S Ro8 and Ro16 – advantage Zest Zest 2015 Code S Ro8 and 2 SSL Ro8s; herO Code S Ro4, 2 Code S Ro16, SSL Ro4 and Ro16 – advantage herO The only places where Zest can be said to have an advantage over herO is in minor tournament wins (GSL Global Tourney/Shoutcraft) and in 2014 GSL. herO did better in IEMs, Proleague, 2nd Places and 2015 GSL and SSL. It actually isn't that close, herO did objectively better overall. Rain was worse than both herO and Zest, not accomplishing much other than a GSL Win, Hot6 win and a 2nd place OSL (which is obviously very impressive but it doesn’t compare to the results of hero and Zest posted above). soO never won a Korean individual league so he is below herO, Zest and Rain. Getting 4 2nd places in GSL is obviously very good, but the top players win tournaments. soO only won Kespa cup and did poorly in 2015 outside of Kespa Cup. I have Byul ranked 12, which isn’t particularly high and is certainly justified by his 3 2nd place finishes in GSL and SSL after Zerg was nerfed. Byul also peaked at the end of Heart of the Swarm which should be taken into account – the best players get better as the game goes on. Polt and Taeja are both at the bottom and really don’t even deserve to be mentioned next to the other players on the list. Polt gets the edge because he actually accomplished something in 2015 whereas Taeja faded into oblivion, but honestly they’re not good enough to argue about who’s better. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 18 2016 11:24 The_Red_Viper wrote: You two again  How can you write something like that and then put sOs at number one? Your "real top 15" list isn't all that good tbh  Who do you think deserves #1 and why? | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
HSC is not way equivalent to a Blizzcon. The winner of Blizzcon is the champion of the year - based on that sOs should at least be top 5 | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
It doesn't really matter. You saying "... winning the most difficult tournament" when sOs did in fact not win a korean starleague and then place him at number one simply made me laugh. No, Blizzcon is not the hardest tournament to win. I would have to think a lot about my actual list though, maybe i do that in the next few days. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 18 2016 12:36 The_Red_Viper wrote: It doesn't really matter. You saying "... winning the most difficult tournament" when sOs did in fact not win a korean starleague and then place him at number one simply made me laugh. No, Blizzcon is not the hardest tournament to win. I would have to think a lot about my actual list though, maybe i do that in the next few days. Easy to throw eggs when you stand for nothing. Come back when you actually have an argument as to who deserves #1 | ||
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Ensiferum8
Canada103 Posts
On March 18 2016 12:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: because if we follow that logic, then sOs was stronger in blizzcon than Life (not by a lot granted, but 2 wins>1 win.I really shouldn't feed the troll, but here we go: You say Life shouldn't be number one because of his PL results (which you say is about the same lvl of importance as gsl). If that's your argument, why should sOs be number one (no most people would definitely not say that sOs should be number one) when he pretty much did the same in GSL? Where is your "consistency" here? It's also arguable that proleague results should have the same meaning as starleague results, but sure i simply took that as a given here (i agree that PL is important though) Stuchiu isn't biased, he simply chose priorities and made a list based on that. You can disagree with his method (i do so too to some extent) but all you really do is flame him for no apparent reason. If anything you are pretty "biased". On top of that, his win vs herO in IEM 100 000$ is really similar to a blizzcon, teh caliber there was really high and a winner takes all has soo much pressure. Because of that, hes ahead of Life. But the top 3 between Inno, life and sOs is debatable, the fact that sOs is not even in top 5 is unacceptable. And the fact that he didnt cared about PL is even more pathetic from a TL writer. But hey, call me troll if you want, just try to have better arguments at least  | ||
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Ensiferum8
Canada103 Posts
On March 18 2016 12:36 The_Red_Viper wrote: actually, you are the one who sounds like a troll. Contesting every one that doesnt like stuchiu's feet and bringing aboslutely 0 argument......It doesn't really matter. You saying "... winning the most difficult tournament" when sOs did in fact not win a korean starleague and then place him at number one simply made me laugh. No, Blizzcon is not the hardest tournament to win. I would have to think a lot about my actual list though, maybe i do that in the next few days. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Lil_nooblet
United States459 Posts
My top 5 is pretty similar. Mine is Life, Inno, Zest, soO, sOs and Taeja at 6 or 7 probably. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 18 2016 12:42 BlackZetsu wrote: Easy to throw eggs when you stand for nothing. Come back when you actually have an argument as to who deserves #1 I have an argument why sOs doesn't deserve number one, especially considering your reasoning. Life should be a good number one though, won starleagues, won weekend tournaments. Sure he did only okayish in PL but sOs did only ok (at best) in korean starleagues, which is arguably more important than PL. I don't see why me making a list is mandatory for arguing about yours. It simply isn't. On March 18 2016 12:43 Ensiferum8 wrote: because if we follow that logic, then sOs was stronger in blizzcon than Life (not by a lot granted, but 2 wins>1 win. On top of that, his win vs herO in IEM 100 000$ is really similar to a blizzcon, teh caliber there was really high and a winner takes all has soo much pressure. Because of that, hes ahead of Life. But the top 3 between Inno, life and sOs is debatable, the fact that sOs is not even in top 5 is unacceptable. And the fact that he didnt cared about PL is even more pathetic from a TL writer. But hey, call me troll if you want, just try to have better arguments at least Blizzcon simply isn't that impressive to begin with, sure Blizzcon is Blizzard's way of building hype even for the casual fan, but objectively it isn't nearly as competetive as any korean starleague. HerO, Polt, Bomber and JD to win Blizzcon 2013? That's comparable to making the ro8 in GSL tbh. Sure, for the casual viewer it looks massive because all the attention is there, for the competition itself it's not that special. sOs doesn't belong in the top 3. (i agree that PL should count for something, that doesn't help sOs in this context though) On March 18 2016 12:45 Ensiferum8 wrote: actually, you are the one who sounds like a troll. Contesting every one that doesnt like stuchiu's feet and bringing aboslutely 0 argument...... I am "contesting" two, two guys who made sure to shit on stuchiu in every single thread of this article series. Zero argument? ok. At this point i wouldn't be surprised if you actually are the same person, a mod should maybe check this. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16085 Posts
On March 18 2016 12:43 Ensiferum8 wrote: because if we follow that logic, then sOs was stronger in blizzcon than Life (not by a lot granted, but 2 wins>1 win. On top of that, his win vs herO in IEM 100 000$ is really similar to a blizzcon, teh caliber there was really high and a winner takes all has soo much pressure. Because of that, hes ahead of Life. But the top 3 between Inno, life and sOs is debatable, the fact that sOs is not even in top 5 is unacceptable. And the fact that he didnt cared about PL is even more pathetic from a TL writer. But hey, call me troll if you want, just try to have better arguments at least I like that you rate sOs IEM win so high but at the same time TaeJas IEMs and DHs so low. Because the prize money at sOs IEM was higher? sOs opponents were probably easier then TaeJas opponents at IEM Shenzhen, DH winter or DH bucharest. | ||
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billynasty
United States260 Posts
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Executer08
Germany163 Posts
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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Executer08
Germany163 Posts
On March 18 2016 13:31 Riner1212 wrote: im sorry to say life is not number 1. you have to consider that that innovation left acer to move back to korea and he won two gsls. the reason he came back was because he wanted to improve. life is no way number 1. this article is horribly biased. good example for what i'm talking about in my previous post | ||
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