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Congratz to Drogo.
Sad Bly couldn't make it from a Go4Fear to a Champion hope his hard work pays off one day with a title 
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I wonder if PtitDrogo will change his name now to Drogo as he promised during NationWars.
Big gratz to both finalists!
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Well played! It was a good tournament
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Awesome Tournament and awesome games !
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Congratulations Drogo
Awesome line "I'm the fucking best"
Keep it up!
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Huh, this recap is a bit shorter than I imagined 
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Congrats, really well played! I for one can still enjoy the WCS Circuit and liked the tournament and games. It's just sad that they didn't have a stage until the final, but that will be better in the future and was due to Blizzard releasing the info on the new format too late.
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"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol.
Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS?
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They should make Blizzcon dual tournament so that we can have a foreigner and korean world champion
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On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS?
5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong
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He's honestly been figuring out LotV well in advance compared to most others.
Well played Drogo
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On January 25 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS? 5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong
Except for the fact almost every Code A player would ROFLStomp the shit out of the 5 players who make Blizzcon from the Circuit
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United States97276 Posts
congrats Ptitdrogo. He played well this weekend.
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On January 25 2016 06:19 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS? 5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong Except for the fact almost every Code A player would ROFLStomp the shit out of the 5 players who make Blizzcon from the Circuit
Well they have no way to prove it if they don't make Blizzcon. So Circuit wins
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It was a bit early in the day for champagne, but then again, I don't expect there was much left in the bottle the way Drogo handled it.  Nice tournament all over though! Good fun to watch!
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deserved, congratz ptitdrogo
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
PtitDrogo has a great way of playing PvZ. Nice to see it paid off.
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On January 25 2016 06:28 stuchiu wrote:
PtitDrogo has a great way of playing PvZ. Nice to see it paid off.
He's a smart one. He actually realised uThermal's composition was weak to colossi when the other Protosses tried doing what they always do in PvT these days. He definitely earned his win, his side of the bracket was pretty intense.
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congrats PtitDrogo , its nice to see someone like you winning ,
Thanks again for the pvz guide back in Hots , it helped me get back to gm <3
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I8dL2bD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pkYVJoH.jpg)
(Better photos coming Monday,as I cannot process Raw images on my netbook.)
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I was shocked to see that SC was pushed to the cheap seats. Thanks Musicus for explaining a little bit what was going on. And what a relief to see the finals in front of that big audience!!!
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4137 Posts
I think we need a total WCS points ranking. I think Polt is #1.
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On January 25 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS? 5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong
Not really true. I doubt even one of them makes it to Blizzcon. Don't forget the pre-Blizzcon Ro16. So... Neither Code A nor WCS Circuit will have any players at Blizzcon most likely :-P
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On January 25 2016 06:32 Jj_82 wrote:
I was shocked to see that SC was pushed to the cheap seats. Thanks Musicus for explaining a little bit what was going on. And what a relief to see the finals in front of that big audience!!!
No problem, here are Adebisi's exact words.
Adebisi
Hey guys,
To be transparent here this event was planned before the WCS plans were fully finalized, and by then floor plans and schedules have to be set. We've done a lot to upgrade the show as we can with a new studio, dedicated interview area and more, but we can't change stage schedules/floor plans etc easily.
For our next event in Austin, we'll have a full stage show as usual for the final bracket.
From what I've seen they considered this event a success and didn't even expect that much interest for sc2 at the venue. And hey the interview area was great this time.
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Congrats!
Here's the thing though. I think Drogo is actually a very good player right now, but because of the new format that excludes the top players, he will never get the appreciation.
We desperatly need more Foreinger vs Korean tournaments or else no matter the quality and progress that foreigners make, will always be looked at as the little league. It might be fine for some, but for the ones that are actually really good, like Drogo, it's a great shame.
Gogogo Drogo and fuck WCS!
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On January 25 2016 06:19 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS? 5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong Except for the fact almost every Code A player would ROFLStomp the shit out of the 5 players who make Blizzcon from the Circuit
u realize that Drogo used only a handful of builds this tournament... all of which were either directly stolen from the recently GSL matches, or neeb who in turn stole them from other koreans...
Simply put: he was using the exact same builds/strats and executions as the korean players. Suppose we can't expect random forum warriors to recognize the current meta, or build orders of KR players here though.
OF COURSE!!! all NA/EU players have no idea what they are doing and are shit compared to KRs, what was I thinking!!!
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Gratz Drogo !
fun event this weekend
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On January 25 2016 06:36 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS? 5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong Not really true. I doubt even one of them makes it to Blizzcon. Don't forget the pre-Blizzcon Ro16. So... Neither Code A nor WCS Circuit will have any players at Blizzcon most likely :-P
Semantics! They'll be at the Global Finals
On January 25 2016 06:34 Dingodile wrote:
I think we need a total WCS points ranking. I think Polt is #1.
Looking into it. I think if I include 2016 WCS he isn't.
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On January 25 2016 06:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:28 stuchiu wrote:
PtitDrogo has a great way of playing PvZ. Nice to see it paid off. He's a smart one. He actually realised uThermal's composition was weak to colossi when the other Protosses tried doing what they always do in PvT these days. He definitely earned his win, his side of the bracket was pretty intense.
He played the player and if he can keep doing that + stop choking under pressure he has a huge potential.
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Annd zero fucks were given - I wonder how long it will take the community to get sick of watching nerfed events..the whole reason DH and iems were popular was the premise of getting to watch the best players in the world taken on by foreign hopes - now its just minor league baseball - let the koreans back pls , thx
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On January 25 2016 06:40 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:19 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 25 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS? 5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong Except for the fact almost every Code A player would ROFLStomp the shit out of the 5 players who make Blizzcon from the Circuit u realize that Drogo used only a handful of builds this tournament... all of which were either directly stolen from the recently GSL matches, or neeb who in turn stole them from other koreans... Simply put: he was using the exact same builds/strats and executions as the korean players. Suppose we can't expect random forum warriors to recognize the current meta, or build orders of KR players here though. OF COURSE!!! all NA/EU players have no idea what they are doing and are shit compared to KRs, what was I thinking!!!
He may well have, I didn't watch the tournament, I have no interest in a nerfed borefest but my question to you is How does that change anything I said in that post?
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On January 25 2016 07:07 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:40 -Kyo- wrote:On January 25 2016 06:19 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 25 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:On January 25 2016 06:10 boxerfred wrote:"PtitDrogo now currently leads the International WCS rankings" lol. Can we just treat WCS Circuit as Code A of WCS? 5 people go to Blizzcon via Circuit, I don't think Code A is that strong Except for the fact almost every Code A player would ROFLStomp the shit out of the 5 players who make Blizzcon from the Circuit u realize that Drogo used only a handful of builds this tournament... all of which were either directly stolen from the recently GSL matches, or neeb who in turn stole them from other koreans... Simply put: he was using the exact same builds/strats and executions as the korean players. Suppose we can't expect random forum warriors to recognize the current meta, or build orders of KR players here though. OF COURSE!!! all NA/EU players have no idea what they are doing and are shit compared to KRs, what was I thinking!!! How does that change anything I said in that post?
Don't worry he's totally wrong, the adept/oracle combo in various form isn't stolen from the current korean meta, what he did vs uthermal was some reactive play regarding composition etc...
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On January 25 2016 06:36 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:32 Jj_82 wrote:
I was shocked to see that SC was pushed to the cheap seats. Thanks Musicus for explaining a little bit what was going on. And what a relief to see the finals in front of that big audience!!! No problem, here are Adebisi's exact words. Show nested quote +Adebisi
Hey guys,
To be transparent here this event was planned before the WCS plans were fully finalized, and by then floor plans and schedules have to be set. We've done a lot to upgrade the show as we can with a new studio, dedicated interview area and more, but we can't change stage schedules/floor plans etc easily.
For our next event in Austin, we'll have a full stage show as usual for the final bracket. From what I've seen they considered this event a success and didn't even expect that much interest for sc2 at the venue. And hey the interview area was great this time.
Ahh, that explains a lot. Good to know
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It is nothing but sad when a better player gets cheesed out in mirror bullshit
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On January 25 2016 07:08 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:36 Musicus wrote:On January 25 2016 06:32 Jj_82 wrote:
I was shocked to see that SC was pushed to the cheap seats. Thanks Musicus for explaining a little bit what was going on. And what a relief to see the finals in front of that big audience!!! No problem, here are Adebisi's exact words. Adebisi
Hey guys,
To be transparent here this event was planned before the WCS plans were fully finalized, and by then floor plans and schedules have to be set. We've done a lot to upgrade the show as we can with a new studio, dedicated interview area and more, but we can't change stage schedules/floor plans etc easily.
For our next event in Austin, we'll have a full stage show as usual for the final bracket. From what I've seen they considered this event a success and didn't even expect that much interest for sc2 at the venue. And hey the interview area was great this time. Ahh, that explains a lot. Good to know
Yep, and that also show what were DH plans for sc2 before WCS...
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He's come a long way since I stomped him in beta in one of his first LotV games.
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congrats, shame I missed the Final. Time slot too op....
With Korea being region lock, France is looking likely to be the apex predators of the foreign scene.
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On January 25 2016 07:24 DMXD wrote:
congrats, shame I missed the Final. Time slot too op....
With Korea being region lock, France is looking likely to be the apex predators of the foreign scene.
In Before "We must ban all French players from WCS Circuit for the good of the community. Let O'Gaming fund their scene"
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why are so many people so elitist jerks? feelsbadman
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great photo
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Congratulations, PtitDrogo, and also commiserations to Bly. I didn't think anyone would beat the Koreans, and he comes along and bops them both. Well done.
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I guess we have the first dreamhack champion that didn´t face a korean in the entire tournament. Nevertheless, congrats drogo !
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On January 25 2016 07:28 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:34 Dingodile wrote:
I think we need a total WCS points ranking. I think Polt is #1. The 16 most accomplished WCS players of all time (including all points earned 2016): 1 -  INnoVation - 15350 points 2 - Polt - 15125 points 3 -  herO - 12400 points 4 - Maru - 12375 points 5 - Bomber - 12300 points 6 -  HyuN - 11825 points 7 - Jaedong - 10950 points 8 - Life - 10750 points 9 - MMA - 10600 points 10 - sOs - 10325 points 11 - MC - 10125 points 12 - Rain - 10000 points 13 - TaeJa - 9850 points 14 - Zest - 9725 points 15 - Soulkey - 9675 points 16/17 - Dear/ Classic - 8775 points honorable mentions: soO, ByuL, PartinGbest foreigner: Snute - 5950 points
Would make a good Blizzcon.
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Congrats to PtitDrogo but even more respect to Bly still having something left in him after so long in the scene!
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wp PtitDrogo, but I miss more Koreans
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On January 25 2016 06:39 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Gogogo Drogo and fuck WCS!
From all the comments, I liked this one the most :-)
Drogo is a good guy and he was the only protoss, who managed to analyze well the composition of uThermal. Well done!
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I know the whole WSC change was a huge deal, not only for this tournament, but overall, but I would like to include my input for this. First, I really, really enjoy the best of the best sc2 games. Initially I was incredibly upset about the changes, because I knew the quality of the games would decrease for tournaments such as dreamhack that were played in EU. Secondly, I thought that it was just a cop out for getting more foreigners into the scene. That being said, this tournament was absolutely amazing. I watched, specifically not caring about viewership and just about quality, and I have always been one to be drawn into the "foreigner vs korean" aspect of the tournament, but also just seeing the best of the foreigner scene.
This specific Dreamhack provided both of best worlds: not only was Bly able to absolutely amaze me by beating both Violet and Hydra(however you think ZvZ is, he still beat them), but everyone was able to see some good games between the best of EU. It was really nice to see EU be excited and support their own players, instead of thinking "oh they are just going to get Ro16 before some Korean beats them."
I still would overall say, the WCS changes are a little too dramatic, but I don't know a better way to do this. It was a breath of fresh air to see some different finals, and I think the games proved that themselves as well.
Thank you for the games and congrats to Ptitdrogo!
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GG Drogo, congrats!
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Drogo is a boss. He proved it here.
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I really think it's a shame they did the all-korean ban from any international tourneys right after the LotV release; this is obviously the best time for the foreigners to shine and actually compete with the koreans. The way LotV is played, so fast and the chaos of not having a proper meta in any matchup gives foreigners a real chance for the first time in SCII. Look at how Marinelord destroyed team Korea in Nation Wars, or how Bly eliminated the two koreans from DH.
This would've been the best time ever to let foreigners fight with koreans, instead of having to forever put an asterisk by every foreigner who will win any WCS event in 2016. Makes me kinda sad.. 
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Hate to get real on a tangent like this, but..
Spoilers should not be headlines. Seriously, the idea that you should write on the front page of your shit the name of the winner of some match was definitely invented before we had the internet. I'm glad i already watched drogo but I got burned bad once when I wanted to find the replays or restream of some 7 game finals but headline is "korean wins again" or something and I had a little hope but then I didn't bother watching it at all. This isn't the days of newspaper anymore, everyone can watch their shit when they feel like it and people who are throwing out spoilers are just jackasses really. Please endorse my movement to abolish headline spoilers. Spoilers hurt everyone
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On January 25 2016 11:14 VasHeR wrote:Hate to get real on a tangent like this, but.. Spoilers should not be headlines. Seriously, the idea that you should be the first to report to people the winner of some match was definitely invented before we had the internet. I'm glad i already watched drogo but I got burned bad once when I wanted to find the replays or restream of some 7 game finals but headline is "korean wins again" or something and I had a little hope but then I didn't bother watching it at all. This isn't the days of newspaper anymore, everyone can watch their shit when they feel like it and people who are throwing out spoilers are just jackasses really. Please endorse my movement to abolish headline spoilers. Spoilers hurt everyone
Unless it has been changed or no longer works there is a hide spoiler functionality on the website
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Please pm me how, sounds awesome, had no idea
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On January 25 2016 11:22 VasHeR wrote:
Please pm me how, sounds awesome, had no idea
To be honest I couldn't find it after I said it. I KNOW its a thing I just never used it
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On January 25 2016 11:34 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 11:22 VasHeR wrote:
Please pm me how, sounds awesome, had no idea To be honest I couldn't find it after I said it. I KNOW its a thing I just never used it
I've heard of it too but i think maybe it was removed? Lots of people lately have complained of spoilers.
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Really enjoyed the games, more than expected. Didn't have a vested interest in a particular player, but watching Bly take out Hydra and Violet was pretty rad. The narrative of these tournaments has changed away from being foreigner vs Korean, but that doesn't have to mean the tournaments aren't good. The narrative has simply changed and I'm sure before long we'll have rivalries and stories like we did back in the Idra vs Huk, Naniwa vs anyone days.
Looking forward to more from WCS Circuit as well as continuing to tune in to the Korean best in both of their leagues. Congrats Drogo and Bly.
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Just wondering, why was this post on the homepage so fast? Usually Liquipedia doesnt post tournament winner for at least 5-6 days to avoid spoiler.
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Usually the articles are more in depth. I guess since now there's loads of these tournaments they'll all be shorter summaries.
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On January 25 2016 12:10 ProBell wrote:
Just wondering, why was this post on the homepage so fast? Usually Liquipedia doesnt post tournament winner for at least 5-6 days to avoid spoiler.
Post after 5-6 days, people complain about it being too slow.
Post asap and people complain about potential spoiler.
Can't please anyone these days.
Ps. Btw theres a no spoiler button.
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@kaizor that's what I thought but I dont see no spoiler button anymore. (and yes I'm logged in)
But as for people complaining @ late post I dont check forums often, I like how it was.
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On January 25 2016 12:10 ProBell wrote:
Just wondering, why was this post on the homepage so fast? Usually Liquipedia doesnt post tournament winner for at least 5-6 days to avoid spoiler.
Imo if you want to watch the tournament vods spoiler free than you should just avoid TL and reddit until you have watched the vods. I personally often miss the games live so I just avoid TL and reddit for a few days until I have watched the twitch vods or whatever.
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Well i guess the tourney was good. Of course the hype is not there without top koreans competing but hey. The new system is not THAT bad. I'd even say it's better. Don't get this whining tbh. I do myself enjoy watching korean starcraft the most. Noone took ssl and gsl from me. As to "foreginer hope" aspect. Well, it lost it's actuall meaning long ago don't you think? Last real foriegner was Nani, i guess and his DH 2-4 to Life. That's it. From that on it was dull and predictable. With Hots being figured out it became clear foreigners cannot deliver. So it was brought down to watching 10 of DH/iems of snute&co being eliminated in ro16/ro8. That's what you really miss? I don't get it. And for those of you guys who hype Marinelord's NW run and Bly's weekend performance i'd say it's nothing special (though guys did a really good job, can't deny it). At the start of a new expansion everything can happen. By the end of the year that would be 0,1 out of 100 chance marinelord can repeat that allkill.
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Nice, a foreigner won due to racism. Amazing.
User was warned for this post
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I was impressed by uThermal.
If he can shape up against the collosi play then iI expect to see him way more often at the top.
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Honestly, even though it was a big starcraft tournament the hype wasn't there at all. I realize that people want the foreign scene to grow but this is just not the way to go.
I look forward to these events, making sandwiches/pizza, getting some beer and sitting in front of the TV watching.
But this time, I watched a bit and lost interest and just closed down the stream.
I love watching sports at the highest level. I don't watch 2 or 3 leagues. The same goes for Starcraft and for the longest time these events hyped me like nothing else because I know there are going to be top notch players there, big crowd, great casters and the community chatting online.
Blizzard killed the hype.
Gratz to the winner though. I know I'll never watch any of these events outside of Korea anymore.
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The finals were super hype :D I had a lot of fun watching it, and the level of play was much higher than I expected.
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im suprised it was so many terrans in ro16. i expected less actually
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For all the pros and cons, its an inexplicable truth that foreigners now have more of an opportunity to make pro gaming in SC2 a viable future for themselves and seeing the hunger develop over the coming year will be really cool. As the new stories develop I think its pretty great that every region in the world now has the potential to make some money from an entry level without having the countries have an established infrastructure like Korea does. Be interesting to see how everyones ranking moves throughout the year and who manages to stay on top with all the extra incentive to practice.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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On January 25 2016 07:28 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:34 Dingodile wrote:
I think we need a total WCS points ranking. I think Polt is #1. The 16 most accomplished WCS players of all time (including all points earned 2016): 1 - INnoVation - 15350 points 2 - Polt - 15125 points 3 - herO - 12400 points 4 - Maru - 12375 points 5 - Bomber - 12300 points 6 - HyuN - 11825 points 7 - Jaedong - 10950 points 8 - Life - 10750 points 9 - MMA - 10600 points 10 - sOs - 10325 points 11 - MC - 10125 points 12 - Rain - 10000 points 13 - TaeJa - 9850 points 14 - Zest - 9725 points 15 - Soulkey - 9675 points 16/17 - Dear/ Classic - 8775 points honorable mentions: soO, ByuL, PartinGbest foreigner: Snute - 5950 points
2014 fucked that list real bad
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
So, how good was the viewership? Did it bring more people? I wasn't even turning TL on, been the whole day outside
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On January 25 2016 19:15 deacon.frost wrote:So, how good was the viewership? Did it bring more people? I wasn't even turning TL on, been the whole day outside
oh fresh air! how was it?
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That poor Bly.
Kick the two Koreans out of the tournament, the lose finals to a foreigner.
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On January 25 2016 19:15 deacon.frost wrote:So, how good was the viewership? Did it bring more people? I wasn't even turning TL on, been the whole day outside
Did you use sunblock?
Viewership was the same as always I'd say, the tourney was ok.
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On January 25 2016 09:42 Thomasmarkle wrote:
I know the whole WSC change was a huge deal, not only for this tournament, but overall, but I would like to include my input for this. First, I really, really enjoy the best of the best sc2 games. Initially I was incredibly upset about the changes, because I knew the quality of the games would decrease for tournaments such as dreamhack that were played in EU. Secondly, I thought that it was just a cop out for getting more foreigners into the scene. That being said, this tournament was absolutely amazing. I watched, specifically not caring about viewership and just about quality, and I have always been one to be drawn into the "foreigner vs korean" aspect of the tournament, but also just seeing the best of the foreigner scene.
This specific Dreamhack provided both of best worlds: not only was Bly able to absolutely amaze me by beating both Violet and Hydra(however you think ZvZ is, he still beat them), but everyone was able to see some good games between the best of EU. It was really nice to see EU be excited and support their own players, instead of thinking "oh they are just going to get Ro16 before some Korean beats them."
I still would overall say, the WCS changes are a little too dramatic, but I don't know a better way to do this. It was a breath of fresh air to see some different finals, and I think the games proved that themselves as well.
Thank you for the games and congrats to Ptitdrogo!
Thanks for the post and congratulations to Drogo
I definitely enjoyed watching this tournament and unlike most other tourney's where I watch foreigners get knocked out in ro16 then I stop watching In watched this to the end. Feel bad for Bly losing the finals with then scoreline not reflecting how he played.
The viewership seemed good with a CET morning start not seeming to have an impact on viewership. Also much less downtime than usual.
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I agree, I didn't feel the hype of 2012MLG which still are my fanboy peak but I enjoyed it a lot more than the last DreamHack (which the way were already not the best level around). If Korean scene survives (long shot ) I will be happy with the change (just stop changing the format every year please).
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On January 25 2016 20:26 MiCroLiFe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 19:15 deacon.frost wrote:So, how good was the viewership? Did it bring more people? I wasn't even turning TL on, been the whole day outside oh fresh air! how was it?
Do not listen to him, outside does not actually exist!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 25 2016 20:29 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 19:15 deacon.frost wrote:So, how good was the viewership? Did it bring more people? I wasn't even turning TL on, been the whole day outside Did you use sunblock? Viewership was the same as always I'd say, the tourney was ok.
did not need one, haven't seen the Sun in a while
Edit> Oh, and thanks for the answer.
On January 25 2016 20:26 MiCroLiFe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 19:15 deacon.frost wrote:So, how good was the viewership? Did it bring more people? I wasn't even turning TL on, been the whole day outside oh fresh air! how was it?
It was good, bough new ice skates, had to try them 
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All I really read from the elitist bunch is the same crap I hear from other sports "fans". Football (soccer) strives on regular leagues where you identify with your local team that don't necessarily put on the best matches. It doesn't take much to realize that Barcelona duking it out against Real Madrid is a higher quality game than a couple of unknown teams playing in the local leagues.
Not watching the game because you think the games are not up to your standard is your prerrogative, you don't have to spend your time on something you don't consider entertaining if you don't want to, but don't call yourself a fan. Fans love the game for the game. Fans love their teams and players above all. You're the same as those football(soccer) band-wagoners that only tune in for the world cup and shit on weekly leagues because the quality of the play isn't that great or that only tune in when Brazil, Germany or Argentina play.
Until foreign countries have a proleague of their own, to foster local play like the koreans do, I highly doubt there are many alternatives break the status quo. I'm sure the purists will continue to whine. In my case, though, I finally enjoy watching SC2 again (and even playing it) after a 3 year hiatus, though it helps that LoTV is worlds better than the borefest that Blord Infestor was during WoL or HotS was throught until the very end even if it's still broken.
I personally like the potential this new system brings and I liked this Dreamhack a lot. Besides, restricting attendees for tournaments by region is barely anything new in traditional sports. They figured it out long ago that the local hero narrative is a great attention grabber.
PS: Congrats to Drogo and congrats to France
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Every thread turns into a debate about WCS nowadays. Gz to Drogo, it's a big achievement and I hope he does well in future tournaments as well. He looks really really strong.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 25 2016 21:36 lugaidster wrote:
All I really read from the elitist bunch is the same crap I hear from other sports "fans". Football (soccer) strives on regular leagues where you identify with your local team that don't necessarily put on the best matches. It doesn't take much to realize that Barcelona duking it out against Real Madrid is a higher quality game than a couple of unknown teams playing in the local leagues.
Not watching the game because you think the games are not up to your standard is your prerrogative, you don't have to spend your time on something you don't consider entertaining if you don't want to, but don't call yourself a fan. Fans love the game for the game. Fans love their teams and players above all. You're the same as those football(soccer) band-wagoners that only tune in for the world cup and shit on weekly leagues because the quality of the play isn't that great or that only tune in when Brazil, Germany or Argentina play.
Until foreign countries have a proleague of their own, to foster local play like the koreans do, I highly doubt there are many alternatives break the status quo. I'm sure the purists will continue to whine. In my case, though, I finally enjoy watching SC2 again (and even playing it) after a 3 year hiatus, though it helps that LoTV is worlds better than the borefest that Blord Infestor was during WoL or HotS was throught until the very end even if it's still broken.
I personally like the potential this new system brings and I liked this Dreamhack a lot. Besides, restricting attendees for tournaments by region is barely anything new in traditional sports. They figured it out long ago that the local hero narrative is a great attention grabber.
PS: Congrats to Drogo and congrats to France
I won't speak for others, but my view>
First of all, I don't watch because the quality of the game is lower than in Korea(which is most of the time true) = well, no, that's not true. It was alway even with Koreans(The top Koreans were not that much into traveling anyway). I don't watch because they banned Korean players and I don't agree with that. That's the only reason.
Second - Korea has a specific conditions. Foreigners will NEVER have their conditions. All Korean teams are in 1 area and in 1 town(mroe or less). Compare to foreigners, the teams are not on the same continent!!!! How they can have a similar conditions? BTW IIRC they had a "proleague", it was called Acer TeamStory Cup and it is somehow not here from 2014, I wonder why...
Third thing - at the beginning of SC2 foreign teams won huge piles of money because back then foreigners actually mattered. Namely EG. But they haven't fostered talents back then, why do you think they will foster new talents now?
This system hurts Korean players and I hate it.
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Great tournament really. I agree with the changes.
But can any1 tell where were the Jaedong? Polt? Stardust? ForGG? Hadn't they all gotten their athlete visa at some point last here? Or were they all knocked out b4 round of 16, which seems so unlikely to me?
Or am I missing something relative to the new system?
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On January 25 2016 22:34 Trizztein1 wrote:
Great tournament really. I agree with the changes.
But can any1 tell where were the Jaedong? Polt? Stardust? ForGG? Hadn't they all gotten their athlete visa at some point last here? Or were they all knocked out b4 round of 16, which seems so unlikely to me?
Or am I missing something relative to the new system?
Stardust isn't playing SC2 atm (he's been streaming Brood War), ForGG moved back to KR and will likely retire soon, JD doesn't want to play WCS this year (he's in Code A). Not sure about Polt, he probably just didn't feel like it.
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On January 25 2016 22:09 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 21:36 lugaidster wrote:
All I really read from the elitist bunch is the same crap I hear from other sports "fans". Football (soccer) strives on regular leagues where you identify with your local team that don't necessarily put on the best matches. It doesn't take much to realize that Barcelona duking it out against Real Madrid is a higher quality game than a couple of unknown teams playing in the local leagues.
Not watching the game because you think the games are not up to your standard is your prerrogative, you don't have to spend your time on something you don't consider entertaining if you don't want to, but don't call yourself a fan. Fans love the game for the game. Fans love their teams and players above all. You're the same as those football(soccer) band-wagoners that only tune in for the world cup and shit on weekly leagues because the quality of the play isn't that great or that only tune in when Brazil, Germany or Argentina play.
Until foreign countries have a proleague of their own, to foster local play like the koreans do, I highly doubt there are many alternatives break the status quo. I'm sure the purists will continue to whine. In my case, though, I finally enjoy watching SC2 again (and even playing it) after a 3 year hiatus, though it helps that LoTV is worlds better than the borefest that Blord Infestor was during WoL or HotS was throught until the very end even if it's still broken.
I personally like the potential this new system brings and I liked this Dreamhack a lot. Besides, restricting attendees for tournaments by region is barely anything new in traditional sports. They figured it out long ago that the local hero narrative is a great attention grabber.
PS: Congrats to Drogo and congrats to France I won't speak for others, but my view> First of all, I don't watch because the quality of the game is lower than in Korea(which is most of the time true) = well, no, that's not true. It was alway even with Koreans(The top Koreans were not that much into traveling anyway). I don't watch because they banned Korean players and I don't agree with that. That's the only reason. Second - Korea has a specific conditions. Foreigners will NEVER have their conditions. All Korean teams are in 1 area and in 1 town(mroe or less). Compare to foreigners, the teams are not on the same continent!!!! How they can have a similar conditions? BTW IIRC they had a "proleague", it was called Acer TeamStory Cup and it is somehow not here from 2014, I wonder why... Third thing - at the beginning of SC2 foreign teams won huge piles of money because back then foreigners actually mattered. Namely EG. But they haven't fostered talents back then, why do you think they will foster new talents now? This system hurts Korean players and I hate it.
Your first point is true. Top Korean players, especially those from KeSPA, don't perform particularly well in international weekend tourneys - probably a combination of jet lag, less preparation time, being out of comfort zone, less pressure to win compared to Proleague/GSL, etc. The likes of Innovation, Rain, Life always look more shaky and quite beatable by foreigners in such tourneys. And LoTV is relatively new, so the playing field is more level. As someone pointed out (I forgot who and which thread), right now is ironically the best time for foreigners to roll over Koreans (and true enough, Violet and Hyda got rolled over).
So I think banning Koreans from DH actually hurts both Koreans (not being able to compete) and foreigners (not having the chance and bragging rights to beat KeSPA Koreans when they are in the best position to).
(From a viewer perspective, the quality of the games with or without the ban is not much of a difference. Yes, one of the top Koreans would eventually eke out a win, but it's quite possible for a foreigner or two to make it to the semis or even the finals to put up a good fight. For example last year, Classic and Rain dropped games to Snute and Lilbow, Hydra got reverse 3-2ed by Lilbow in WCS, etc.)
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I rather think they are afraid to make wet viewers. The one from Life was excellent that he sprayed the ground. Stephano didnt care and celebrated like a champ at WCS 2012 EU.
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On January 25 2016 22:40 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 22:34 Trizztein1 wrote:
Great tournament really. I agree with the changes.
But can any1 tell where were the Jaedong? Polt? Stardust? ForGG? Hadn't they all gotten their athlete visa at some point last here? Or were they all knocked out b4 round of 16, which seems so unlikely to me?
Or am I missing something relative to the new system? Stardust isn't playing SC2 atm (he's been streaming Brood War), ForGG moved back to KR and will likely retire soon, JD doesn't want to play WCS this year (he's in Code A). Not sure about Polt, he probably just didn't feel like it.
Thank you! Polt not feeling like it?? Haha too many wins makes you lazy kappa 😉
User was warned for this post
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I won't speak for others, but my view>
First of all, I don't watch because the quality of the game is lower than in Korea(which is most of the time true) = well, no, that's not true. It was alway even with Koreans(The top Koreans were not that much into traveling anyway). I don't watch because they banned Korean players and I don't agree with that. That's the only reason.
Well, I never said it applied to you, there are others, though, that don't watch because, allegedly, the games are lower quality. You can find them in this thread and in other places. To them, I say they aren't real fans anyway. With regards to you not watching because they "banned" korean players, well, that's your prerrogative.
Second - Korea has a specific conditions. Foreigners will NEVER have their conditions. All Korean teams are in 1 area and in 1 town(mroe or less). Compare to foreigners, the teams are not on the same continent!!!! How they can have a similar conditions? BTW IIRC they had a "proleague", it was called Acer TeamStory Cup and it is somehow not here from 2014, I wonder why...
Foreigners is a very generic term that applies to any non-korean (and I'm sure you know that). The reason I make this distinction is because while not all foreigners can have the same conditions, some specific foreigners in specific countries or regions could (Like, maybe, France as a country or Europe as a region). The point is, though, that without infraestructure and economic incentives, the development of the foreign scene is going to suffer. Since there's no proleague outside of Korea, no other country can foster players the same way Korea can. This translates to a widening gap that we already know exists. Because of that, you need to look at other ways to foster it.
Region-locking tournaments creates the monetary incentive for new and unexperienced players to try and practice and become better since they can secure, at least, some income. It is important to allow new and talented players a shot to win tournament money, and it's also important to allow representation from underrepresented regions. It works like this in other sports, and it works well. Region-locking also allows more casual viewers to relate to the personalities they watch in the games. While this is not a weekly league like Korea has, it presents similar opportunities on a bigger scale (though harder to crack).
Third thing - at the beginning of SC2 foreign teams won huge piles of money because back then foreigners actually mattered. Namely EG. But they haven't fostered talents back then, why do you think they will foster new talents now?
Teams are economic entities. If the investment isn't playing out, they don't have to continue their investment. Since it didn't pay out for them and they didn't continue to foster foreigners, what are we to do... Resign? Accept the status quo? Not region-locking the tournaments didn't do anything but lead to stagnation. Something had to be tried even if not everyone will be happy (as can be clearly seen by your, and others', comments). The question is, though, will the loss of viewers like you be offset by new or returning viewers? I believe it will be, but only time will tell. At least, they gained me back, so I'm offsetting you .
This system hurts Korean players and I hate it.
The Korean eSports scene never needed international viewers or events to succeed. They made it without us, and they will continue to exist with or without us. They don't need your charity. You can hate it, though. That is, also, your prerrogative.
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On January 25 2016 23:37 RKC wrote:
The likes of Innovation, Rain, Life always look more shaky and quite beatable by foreigners in such tourneys.
To be fair, in general they just look shaky (and rather often that's because they play jetlagged as they couldn't be arsed to get there early ) but still win the overwhelming amount of series against non-Koreans despite dropping some games. The actual KeSPA players were still more often than not stopped by other Koreans instead.
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I have to confess, I was a bit disappointed that Drogo didn't already crush face in Jönköping. I was a true believer back then. Even better to see him succeed now, i hope he can keep it up!
Also the new WCS system really reinvigorated the foreign scene. Its awesome to see all these pros so motivated to do well in 2016. This will be a perfect year if the next events can build on this Dreamhack and get bigger again. Maybe we will see some international events with Koreans as well. Can't wait for Blizzcon.
Oh.. and gogo TLO!! I would love him getting a trophy as well. such a hard worker
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On January 26 2016 00:22 wtfishedoing wrote:
I have to confess, I was a bit disappointed that Drogo didn't already crush face in Jönköping. I was a true believer back then. Even better to see him succeed now, i hope he can keep it up!
Also the new WCS system really reinvigorated the foreign scene. Its awesome to see all these pros so motivated to do well in 2016. This will be a perfect year if the next events can build on this Dreamhack and get bigger again. Maybe we will see some international events with Koreans as well. Can't wait for Blizzcon.
Oh.. and gogo TLO!! I would love him getting a trophy as well. such a hard worker
TLO had great games IMHO. It's been a while since I've seen him playing this well.
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On January 25 2016 21:27 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 20:29 Penev wrote:On January 25 2016 19:15 deacon.frost wrote:So, how good was the viewership? Did it bring more people? I wasn't even turning TL on, been the whole day outside Did you use sunblock? Viewership was the same as always I'd say, the tourney was ok. did not need one, haven't seen the Sun in a while Edit> Oh, and thanks for the answer.
A vampire that misses the sun? :o
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On January 26 2016 00:06 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 23:37 RKC wrote:
The likes of Innovation, Rain, Life always look more shaky and quite beatable by foreigners in such tourneys. To be fair, in general they just look shaky (and rather often that's because they play jetlagged as they couldn't be arsed to get there early ) but still win the overwhelming amount of series against non-Koreans despite dropping some games. The actual KeSPA players were still more often than not stopped by other Koreans instead.
Agreed. Top Koreans will always get top results, even if they performed below their best. My point was just that having a few top Koreans present in international weekend tourneys didn't really increase the quality of games from a viewer perspective.
Ultimately, the changes were made for foreigners to get higher finishes and more money. And this, in turn, will hopefully sustain the scene for the long run. Whether they can compete with top Koreans at Blizzcon end of the year is irrelevant. The aim is to ensure foreigners stick around for 2-3 more years to keep competing with top Koreans (if they don't drop off first). Whether viewership increase is irrelevant (so long as it doesn't drop). The aim is to ensure that foreigners keep playing and the existing viewers keep watching for 2-3 more years. Sustainability - that's the main plan. I get it. Whether the plan works, it's anybody's guess.
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On January 25 2016 20:28 Cdtf wrote:
That poor Bly.
Kick the two Koreans out of the tournament, the lose finals to a foreigner.
same for Mana in wcs s3 2015...
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Nice to see that Bly and his gimmicks didn't get rewarded with a DH win at least.
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On January 26 2016 00:38 MrMischelito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 20:28 Cdtf wrote:
That poor Bly.
Kick the two Koreans out of the tournament, the lose finals to a foreigner. same for Mana in wcs s3 2015...
Actually very terrible design that race has a bigger impact than opponent.
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Actually enjoyed this DH a lot.
Congrats to ptitdrogo!
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Actually I liked that only semifinals & grandfinal were on stage. I love to see more "Backroom" or however that is called.
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On January 26 2016 01:00 Dingodile wrote:
Actually I liked that only semifinals & grandfinal were on stage. I love to see more "Backroom" or however that is called.
The semis weren't played on stage.
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On January 26 2016 00:52 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 00:38 MrMischelito wrote:On January 25 2016 20:28 Cdtf wrote:
That poor Bly.
Kick the two Koreans out of the tournament, the lose finals to a foreigner. same for Mana in wcs s3 2015... Actually very terrible design that race has a bigger impact than opponent.
Bly actually said in one of the interviews that his ZvZ is way better than his other matchups. It's not really a surprise that he could lose to a player of lower caliber than Hydra and Violet if its not ZvZ.
Edit: not trying to say drogo is worse than Hydra and Violet or that he doesn't deserve the win
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On January 26 2016 01:19 SiegeRider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 00:52 Dingodile wrote:On January 26 2016 00:38 MrMischelito wrote:On January 25 2016 20:28 Cdtf wrote:
That poor Bly.
Kick the two Koreans out of the tournament, the lose finals to a foreigner. same for Mana in wcs s3 2015... Actually very terrible design that race has a bigger impact than opponent. Bly actually said in one of the interviews that his ZvZ is way better than his other matchups. It's not really a surprise that he could lose to a player of lower caliber than Hydra and Violet if its not ZvZ. Edit: not trying to say drogo is worse than Hydra and Violet or that he doesn't deserve the win
He never said that lol, he specifically said that ZvP was his best matchup, but that PvZ was also the best matchup of PtitDrogo "best PvZ in europe if not best protoss EU".
Considering the recent performances of Drogo against zergs recently like in homestory cup, and the level of Hydra and Violet at this tournament i'm pretty sure he could have beaten them as well.
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gg Drogo, making France proud.
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On January 25 2016 21:36 lugaidster wrote:
Not watching the game because you think the games are not up to your standard is your prerrogative, you don't have to spend your time on something you don't consider entertaining if you don't want to, but don't call yourself a fan. Fans love the game for the game. Fans love their teams and players above all.
Yeah I love the game for the game , I love my favourite players and teams and always cheer for them.
My favourite players are PartinG, Maru, Life, INnoVation, TaeJa etc.
It has nothing to do with the games not being up to my standard I just want to watch my favourite players, and now I can't.
or am I only allowed to cheer for players that happen to be born in the same country as me?
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On January 26 2016 00:38 MrMischelito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 20:28 Cdtf wrote:
That poor Bly.
Kick the two Koreans out of the tournament, the lose finals to a foreigner. same for Mana in wcs s3 2015...
Lilbow beat Hydra in ro8, Mana Forgg in semi. I let you guess who was the more fearsome korean back then.
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On January 26 2016 00:25 lugaidster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 00:22 wtfishedoing wrote:
I have to confess, I was a bit disappointed that Drogo didn't already crush face in Jönköping. I was a true believer back then. Even better to see him succeed now, i hope he can keep it up!
Also the new WCS system really reinvigorated the foreign scene. Its awesome to see all these pros so motivated to do well in 2016. This will be a perfect year if the next events can build on this Dreamhack and get bigger again. Maybe we will see some international events with Koreans as well. Can't wait for Blizzcon.
Oh.. and gogo TLO!! I would love him getting a trophy as well. such a hard worker TLO had great games IMHO. It's been a while since I've seen him playing this well.
TLO won USD 2000 and 300 WCS points. While he had some troubles to get out of his group, he then won versus Scarlett and took out Snute. His run ended in the Ro8, but he was stopped only by the eventual champion.
Very good games by TheLittleOne.
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On January 26 2016 02:46 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 21:36 lugaidster wrote:
Not watching the game because you think the games are not up to your standard is your prerrogative, you don't have to spend your time on something you don't consider entertaining if you don't want to, but don't call yourself a fan. Fans love the game for the game. Fans love their teams and players above all. Yeah I love the game for the game , I love my favourite players and teams and always cheer for them. My favourite players are PartinG, Maru, Life, INnoVation, TaeJa etc. It has nothing to do with the games not being up to my standard I just want to watch my favourite players, and now I can't. or am I only allowed to cheer for players that happen to be born in the same country as me?
Please, read again. I'm not against you rooting for your players and being unhappy with the changes that won't allow you to see your favorite players win every international event. I'm actually against pretend "fans". I believe that viewers complaining that the games aren't or won't be "high quality" enough for them without koreans playing aren't real fans of the game, they're just snobs or elitists. If you don't fall in that category, well, good for you, we'll just root for different players and that's fine. However, if you do fall in that category, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. There's nothing you'll be able to tell me to make me believe that you're not an elitist jerk if you stop watching starcraft because without koreans the game is not high quality.
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On January 26 2016 09:54 lugaidster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:46 Charoisaur wrote:On January 25 2016 21:36 lugaidster wrote:
Not watching the game because you think the games are not up to your standard is your prerrogative, you don't have to spend your time on something you don't consider entertaining if you don't want to, but don't call yourself a fan. Fans love the game for the game. Fans love their teams and players above all. Yeah I love the game for the game , I love my favourite players and teams and always cheer for them. My favourite players are PartinG, Maru, Life, INnoVation, TaeJa etc. It has nothing to do with the games not being up to my standard I just want to watch my favourite players, and now I can't. or am I only allowed to cheer for players that happen to be born in the same country as me? Please, read again. I'm not against you rooting for your players and being unhappy with the changes that won't allow you to see your favorite players win every international event. I'm actually against pretend "fans". I believe that viewers complaining that the games aren't or won't be "high quality" enough for them without koreans playing aren't real fans of the game, they're just snobs or elitists. If you don't fall in that category, well, good for you, we'll just root for different players and that's fine. However, if you do fall in that category, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. There's nothing you'll be able to tell me to make me believe that you're not an elitist jerk if you stop watching starcraft because without koreans the game is not high quality.
well, then I agree with you. But I think most people are just salty they can't watch their favourite players as often anymore.
has nothing to do with "elitist jerks". I wouldn't have a problem with foreigner tournaments if they were made possible without fucking so many korean players.
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On January 26 2016 09:54 lugaidster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:46 Charoisaur wrote:On January 25 2016 21:36 lugaidster wrote:
Not watching the game because you think the games are not up to your standard is your prerrogative, you don't have to spend your time on something you don't consider entertaining if you don't want to, but don't call yourself a fan. Fans love the game for the game. Fans love their teams and players above all. Yeah I love the game for the game , I love my favourite players and teams and always cheer for them. My favourite players are PartinG, Maru, Life, INnoVation, TaeJa etc. It has nothing to do with the games not being up to my standard I just want to watch my favourite players, and now I can't. or am I only allowed to cheer for players that happen to be born in the same country as me? Please, read again. I'm not against you rooting for your players and being unhappy with the changes that won't allow you to see your favorite players win every international event. I'm actually against pretend "fans". I believe that viewers complaining that the games aren't or won't be "high quality" enough for them without koreans playing aren't real fans of the game, they're just snobs or elitists. If you don't fall in that category, well, good for you, we'll just root for different players and that's fine. However, if you do fall in that category, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. There's nothing you'll be able to tell me to make me believe that you're not an elitist jerk if you stop watching starcraft because without koreans the game is not high quality.
Let's take any sport, basketball for the sake of argument. I now remove all American born players from the current NBA because of some strange WCS-like reasoning.
Now the vast majority of fans don't want to watch anymore, are they not true fans? Are they elitist jerks? Get off the white knighting here, the games that are now available to us at these tournaments are factually no longer as "high quality", if the top 20 greatest players in NBA happen to be American let that be, if the top 20 greatest players in SCII happen to be Korean let that be. Fans want to watch the best games they possibly can because they know how intricate, how calculated, how beautiful and masterful the game can truly be.
Nobody is saying we can't 'enjoy' what we are watching, but coloring all the fans who state that the new system excludes the highest caliber players as 'elitist jerks' is mind boggling.
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congrats to drogo. French players are gosu!
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On January 26 2016 03:00 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 00:38 MrMischelito wrote:On January 25 2016 20:28 Cdtf wrote:
That poor Bly.
Kick the two Koreans out of the tournament, the lose finals to a foreigner. same for Mana in wcs s3 2015... Lilbow beat Hydra in ro8, Mana Forgg in semi. I let you guess who was the more fearsome korean back then.
you are right. I totally forgot that epic comeback and reverse sweet against Hydra!
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Drogo is one of the coolest players I remember hearing about recently, and I loved his commentary during NWIII. He also has the IdrA "I don't give a fuck" factor that makes him really fun to follow.
Good shit.
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DarkLordOlli/Drogo2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65909000/jpg/_65909040_151144642.jpg)
