|
On January 11 2016 02:43 A_needle_jog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 02:41 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 02:36 A_needle_jog wrote:On January 11 2016 02:35 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 01:33 A_needle_jog wrote:It is great so see korean comments on balance. They are much more in line with my view aswell  The biggest problem of skewed balance view on Teamliquid is that maps are really bad and the best players outside korea are all zerg by far. Snute, Scarlett, Nerchio, FireCake etc. When teamliquid watches many tournaments with europeans then they always see zerg win because all good players in europe are zerg. (except for MarineLord). But I think when european zergs would play versus korean protoss then the zergs would lose. Once time passes and we have new maps I think balance will look a lot better. I remember when in GSL the very first Terran was super overpowered, but Fruitdealer still managed to win it all because he was ahead of his time My changes would look like : Protoss : - Adept cooldown increase (nerf) - Stalker + 1 damage (buff) Terran : - Reaper granade increase cooldown (nerf) - Medivac speed is slower when heavy tank is in it (nerf) Zerg : - Ravager corrosive bile damage reduce (nerf) - Parasitic bomb radius smaller (nerf) - Ultralisk armor nerf slightly (nerf) - crackling speed attack reduce (nerf) - Hydralisk changed armor type from light to bionic - Hydralisk HP upgrade on hive tech (buff) - Swarm Host removed from game (nerf) Thank you. I want David Kim job and change maps fast  Hydralisks are already biological. Yes, but they are light. That is what makes them one of the weakest units in game. They get slaughtered by everthing  How about re-balancing the Hydralisk around a 1-supply variant that retains its 80 HP? Brood War Hydralisks were 1 supply and were at Hatchery-tech, while still having 80 HP. It was a good, all-round unit, unlike the SC2 Hydralisk which is basically an overpriced Marine I don't think that it is far comparison to brood war. If Hydra is just 1 supply then I think hydra is overpowered. In my honest personal opinion I think hydra should not be light armored and other zerg units nerfed so we see more Hydra play I think that people only build hydras to eventually morph them into Lurkers. If lurkers weren't in game then nobody would ever build hydras.
Hmmm, I think that a 1-supply variant wouldn't be overpowered actually, if they rebalance it around, say 10 damage against all and a slower attack speed. Hydralisks are not very strong currently, either way.
|
On January 11 2016 02:43 A_needle_jog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 02:41 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 02:36 A_needle_jog wrote:On January 11 2016 02:35 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 01:33 A_needle_jog wrote:It is great so see korean comments on balance. They are much more in line with my view aswell The biggest problem of skewed balance view on Teamliquid is that maps are really bad and the best players outside korea are all zerg by far. Snute, Scarlett, Nerchio, FireCake etc. When teamliquid watches many tournaments with europeans then they always see zerg win because all good players in europe are zerg. (except for MarineLord). But I think when european zergs would play versus korean protoss then the zergs would lose. Once time passes and we have new maps I think balance will look a lot better. I remember when in GSL the very first Terran was super overpowered, but Fruitdealer still managed to win it all because he was ahead of his time My changes would look like : Protoss : - Adept cooldown increase (nerf) - Stalker + 1 damage (buff) Terran : - Reaper granade increase cooldown (nerf) - Medivac speed is slower when heavy tank is in it (nerf) Zerg : - Ravager corrosive bile damage reduce (nerf) - Parasitic bomb radius smaller (nerf) - Ultralisk armor nerf slightly (nerf) - crackling speed attack reduce (nerf) - Hydralisk changed armor type from light to bionic - Hydralisk HP upgrade on hive tech (buff) - Swarm Host removed from game (nerf) Thank you. I want David Kim job and change maps fast Hydralisks are already biological. Yes, but they are light. That is what makes them one of the weakest units in game. They get slaughtered by everthing How about re-balancing the Hydralisk around a 1-supply variant that retains its 80 HP? Brood War Hydralisks were 1 supply and were at Hatchery-tech, while still having 80 HP. It was a good, all-round unit, unlike the SC2 Hydralisk which is basically an overpriced Marine I don't think that it is far comparison to brood war. If Hydra is just 1 supply then I think hydra is overpowered. In my honest personal opinion I think hydra should not be light armored and other zerg units nerfed so we see more Hydra play I think that people only build hydras to eventually morph them into Lurkers. If lurkers weren't in game then nobody would ever build hydras.
He meant rebalancing around 1 supply, so of course the other stats would've to be adjusted. But we are way past big changes like this I think. I always wanted Hydra to be hatch tech and Ravagers to be lair tech. It won't happen.
|
Oh now I understand.
I have to say I have a little bit of sad eye of current game when I look at units. To think that is going to be like this forever. No new units, no major changes because it is last Addon
Maybe if we lucky they dedice to do major redesign in future
|
Respect for Trap, Taeja and Soulky just...
On January 11 2016 01:33 A_needle_jog wrote:
The biggest problem of skewed balance view on Teamliquid is that maps are really bad and the best players outside korea are all zerg by far. Snute, Scarlett, Nerchio, FireCake etc.
When teamliquid watches many tournaments with europeans then they always see zerg win because all good players in europe are zerg. (except for MarineLord).
Don't agree with this at least for EU
Snute/Nerchio/Serral/Firecake
Marinelord/Dayshi/Uthermal/Bunny
Lilbow/Pitdrogo/Showtime/Mana
Looks pretty equal to me.
But I think when european zergs would play versus korean protoss then the zergs would lose.
That's a bold statement
|
Hmmm, I think that a 1-supply variant wouldn't be overpowered actually, if they rebalance it around, say 10 damage against all and a slower attack speed. Hydralisks are not very strong currently, either way.
well, that would make a Hydra half a Roach
|
WP is a great unit with no drawbacks: low cost, high HP, fast, and the ranged pickup shields it from defenses; that pickup range is insane, really dunno what they were thinking when they decided that.. Nerfing the Adept wouldn't fix much, WP can make almost any unit combo look OP if you put a bit of work into it.
|
On January 11 2016 03:29 keglu wrote:Respect for Trap, Taeja and Soulky just... Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 01:33 A_needle_jog wrote:
The biggest problem of skewed balance view on Teamliquid is that maps are really bad and the best players outside korea are all zerg by far. Snute, Scarlett, Nerchio, FireCake etc.
When teamliquid watches many tournaments with europeans then they always see zerg win because all good players in europe are zerg. (except for MarineLord).
Don't agree with this at least for EU Snute/Nerchio/Serral/Firecake Marinelord/Dayshi/Uthermal/Bunny Lilbow/Pitdrogo/Showtime/Mana Looks pretty equal to me. Show nested quote +
But I think when european zergs would play versus korean protoss then the zergs would lose.
That's a bold statement
like always, EU Terrans lag behind their P and Z counterparts
|
On January 11 2016 03:29 keglu wrote:Respect for Trap, Taeja and Soulky just... Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 01:33 A_needle_jog wrote:
The biggest problem of skewed balance view on Teamliquid is that maps are really bad and the best players outside korea are all zerg by far. Snute, Scarlett, Nerchio, FireCake etc.
When teamliquid watches many tournaments with europeans then they always see zerg win because all good players in europe are zerg. (except for MarineLord).
Don't agree with this at least for EU Snute/Nerchio/Serral/Firecake Marinelord/Dayshi/Uthermal/Bunny Lilbow/Pitdrogo/Showtime/Mana Looks pretty equal to me. Show nested quote +
But I think when european zergs would play versus korean protoss then the zergs would lose.
That's a bold statement
Yeah I like it bold 
|
On January 11 2016 03:40 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
WP is a great unit with no drawbacks: low cost, high HP, fast, and the ranged pickup shields it from defenses; that pickup range is insane, really dunno what they were thinking when they decided that.. Nerfing the Adept wouldn't fix much, WP can make almost any unit combo look OP if you put a bit of work into it.
Warp prism is killed really fast from static defenses and even if it's "low cost" you have to micro it with units to make it effective. Doing elevetor trick requires high skill expecially when you have to macro behind that.
I see no nerf to WP that would solve "terrans problems" without imbalance pvz too, where protoss already are struggling.
Nerfing adepts would bring down PvZ winrate be cause there will be no way to harass them in early, also PvT will become highly terran favored since protoss lack of splash damage and tanky units.
I really don't see the point in all these "proes" complaining about protoss. In tournaments most qualified players are zergs, terran and zergs won much more than protoss, still protoss is race that needs nerfs...
I think the real only problem is map pool.
|
On January 10 2016 21:05 myRZeth wrote:
I can't take those cherrypicked comments serious. Taeja has always been a notorious whiner, Soulkey is complaining about having to build a unit other than zerglings for the first 5 minutes, and Hyun is talking about a matchup he doesn't even play.
Trap got it right though, the maps are trash.
It's pretty obvious Adept/warp prism needs a nerf immediately. Are you retarded or do you just not play Terran?
User was warned for this post
|
I am going to laugh if results for the next couple months end up showing nothing like what the pros are complaining about.
|
Thanks Crank. I do think WP + adept needs a quick fix. I disagree with Blizzard that it's getting figured out in any way, and honestly the room for improvement is even bigger for P players than for T players (more refined timings, timing the shades perfectly, etc). The armored tag was a fair idea I think, and the warp prism does need to cost gas early game, maybe have an upgrade that takes the gas cost away because it's absolutely pivotal in lategame.
|
On January 11 2016 04:26 Icekin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 03:40 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
WP is a great unit with no drawbacks: low cost, high HP, fast, and the ranged pickup shields it from defenses; that pickup range is insane, really dunno what they were thinking when they decided that.. Nerfing the Adept wouldn't fix much, WP can make almost any unit combo look OP if you put a bit of work into it. Warp prism is killed really fast from static defenses and even if it's "low cost" you have to micro it with units to make it effective. Doing elevetor trick requires high skill expecially when you have to macro behind that.
The Warp Prism is 33% stronger than a medivac, and with the range of its warpin field/pickup it is far easier to get around static defense.
|
425 Posts
On January 11 2016 04:54 travis wrote:
I am going to laugh if results for the next couple months end up showing nothing like what the pros are complaining about.
That would not always contradict balance whines if Z or T wins everything.
Even if balance could give a base advantage to P, enough skill difference can still make up for the imbalance. Just as a GM T won't start loosing to plat/dia P just because something is overpowered.
If there is a T champ this year, it will just mean that guy is insanely good, not that P is not superior to T.
|
On January 11 2016 04:26 Icekin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 03:40 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
WP is a great unit with no drawbacks: low cost, high HP, fast, and the ranged pickup shields it from defenses; that pickup range is insane, really dunno what they were thinking when they decided that.. Nerfing the Adept wouldn't fix much, WP can make almost any unit combo look OP if you put a bit of work into it. Warp prism is killed really fast from static defenses and even if it's "low cost" you have to micro it with units to make it effective. Doing elevetor trick requires high skill expecially when you have to macro behind that. I see no nerf to WP that would solve "terrans problems" without imbalance pvz too, where protoss already are struggling. Nerfing adepts would bring down PvZ winrate be cause there will be no way to harass them in early, also PvT will become highly terran favored since protoss lack of splash damage and tanky units. I really don't see the point in all these "proes" complaining about protoss. In tournaments most qualified players are zergs, terran and zergs won much more than protoss, still protoss is race that needs nerfs... I think the real only problem is map pool.
You don't even have to elevator trick. Just warping them in is way faster. Just drop 4 adepts, use them to tank while you open the WP umbrella (don't worry, they will), and just call in 7 more. The added fact that the warp prism can pick up units from a range is just abominable as well. To entirely cover a base, Terran needs to invest in around 5-6 turrets, which is fine if you are a protoss, because you can just add a third and macro on. WP/ Adept is by no means an all in, which makes it even more difficult to deal with.
The "Pros" complain about protoss because they are difficult to deal with. Don't worry, statistics will show.
|
On January 11 2016 02:05 J. Corsair wrote:
Can't blizzard just hire these guys for 5 hrs a piece, have them brainstorm as to the fair changes and then implement them?
Instead of waiting 6 months to change something? I seem to recall them literally stating WE WILL MAKE CHANGES AGGRESSIVELY EARLY, and here we are, "Let's wait and look a little closer..."
So irritating... do what you say you're going to do, and listen to the damn guys who play the game more than anyone else and make a living doing it. The common theme in what they say is that their personal race isn't the big deal, they understand for the game to work it HAS to be balance for ALL 3 RACES.
There's a huge conflict of interest there since this is their profession. You need someone impartial to do balance, someone who has access to all the data so they can spot trends and the like. They need to be impartial also because they need to consider the overall health of the game like watchability, "funness" factor, etc.
I'm much less concerned about current win rates and balance (which is IMO all out of wack due to the terrible map pool) than I am about the qualitative factors like watchability, build diversity, etc. For example the proposed change to PO is much more interesting to me as it opens up more aggressive options against Protoss which tackles some of these qualitative factors, but changing Adept to armored is kind of a boring change.
|
Inb4 Community Feedback January 15th
* Mothership core can now cast Overcharge on Warp Prism for 10 energy and deals 45 damage, lasts for 60 seconds
On January 11 2016 04:26 Icekin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 03:40 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
WP is a great unit with no drawbacks: low cost, high HP, fast, and the ranged pickup shields it from defenses; that pickup range is insane, really dunno what they were thinking when they decided that.. Nerfing the Adept wouldn't fix much, WP can make almost any unit combo look OP if you put a bit of work into it. Warp prism is killed really fast from static defenses and even if it's "low cost" you have to micro it with units to make it effective. Doing elevetor trick requires high skill expecially when you have to macro behind that.
Ugh.. So the solution is build 10 turrets to defend your entire main and natural (1000 minerals)? Protoss just sees the defense, flies home with Warp Prism and takes 3rd and 4th base whil you're stuck building turrets and bunkers with no return on investment.
|
What I don't understand is how these comments don't line up with Aligulac's balance report, which shows Protoss has (at present) a sub-50% winrate against Terran and an alarmingly poor matchup against Zerg. I know that the top of the Korean ladder is dominated by Protoss, and since the responders above are Korean as well, that should be their perspective - but when money's on the line, Protoss is primed to choke.
|
Yaay Crank, you're awesome!
|
TvP really does have the feel of the PvT blink-era... You just sit in your base hoping not to die, but then you're behind by a base if you don't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
