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On November 29 2015 17:22 Topdoller wrote:
The game is looking good, leave it as is for 6 - 12 months and let the pros work it all out. I would definalty take a second look at the maps, some of them look horrible in design
This, absolutely this.
Units like disruptor and lurker are exactly what this game needed - strong units that are able to hold position but at the same time with good control you can mitigate the damage done and kill them.
The same goes for liberator (althought im not a big fan since i´d rather see ground mech work) and pre-nerf WOL Siege tank.
If you want to change this, look at the maps first. Let's see if blizzard learned something over the years.
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On November 29 2015 03:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I would probably like a slight lurker toning down (maybe slower spikes or longer cooldown), a longer cooldown on the adept shade (and maybe including the ability to 2 shot workers in the upgrade) and the +shields damage removal on disruptor.
Otherwise the games are OK. It's still the beginning and things are still being figured out but it's been fun to watch.
In which games did the lurker seem too strong? In the findals and the couple of other games i watched they didm't seem to be very useful. The only case where i could maybe see them beeing too strong would be in a defensive posture with static defense and vipers but we haven't seen that right?
I agree on the adept it seems a bit too easy to get out of bad positions with them for such a cheap unit.
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On November 29 2015 17:45 zerge wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2015 03:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I would probably like a slight lurker toning down (maybe slower spikes or longer cooldown), a longer cooldown on the adept shade (and maybe including the ability to 2 shot workers in the upgrade) and the +shields damage removal on disruptor.
Otherwise the games are OK. It's still the beginning and things are still being figured out but it's been fun to watch. In which games did the lurker seem too strong? In the findals and the couple of other games i watched they didm't seem to be very useful. The only case where i could maybe see them beeing too strong would be in a defensive posture with static defense and vipers but we haven't seen that right? I agree on the adept it seems a bit too easy to get out of bad positions with them for such a cheap unit.
The Lurker has a timing window where it's pretty strong, however IMO in the late game well controlled Disruptors shut it down hard as we have seen multiple times yesterday.
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It's funny because to me it looks like the game feels better just because it is closer to Starbow/Broodwar dynamic (more micro, not too much camping), except that the economic system still does NOT reward taking expansions.
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Blizzard should look into that PvP meta ASAP imo. I'm all for comeback mechanics and all, but that's taking it way too far. There needs to be a way to consolidate your early advantages, or else why bother trying to get them at all.
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On November 29 2015 17:16 insitelol wrote:
It's funny and painfull at the same time to see some people still hyping this. Lol at DK one hundred times and his futile attempts to make this game "more popular". I must remind you guys that when hots came out there was a considarable increase in viewership (compared to WoL at its end), like ~ 100k for a tournament finals was standard for the first few months. How good and appealing your LotV is, when viewership DROPS compared to HotS last tournaments? (ok, at most it stays the same). Is this how it is meant to be? Yes, i hate this expansion so fucking much. It's a complete failure. In the first place because it ruined a 5 years meta for NOTHING. Literrally NOTHING. Ye, you can laugh at this and say some obvious bs like: "bla-bla-bla just try and learn new things its so exciting, it's a new level for this game where everything will be more balanced and OF COURSE more fun to watch". Fuck yes. Obviously. We should all start figuring out new meta for few couple of years instead of actually playng the game just because DK thinks these.. so to say... "changes" will make SC better.
Ok. Now about the DH. I sit and watched this. Honestly. Trying to see what's "everybody hyping" so much. And all i saw was horrible designed new units (glimpses of much better desgined units called reaver), absense of meta, where mediocre europeans are on par with parting. But most annoying part was that i couldn't figure out why. Why should i go on ladder and startover after 5 years of grinding it.
15 years of BW history is 100k times exciting with 10 units to each side and w/o turning its meta upside down every 3 years. Beauty is in simplicity.
100% agree. People are only hyping this up because it's new and "fresh", but you'll see, once the meta stabilizes there will be very few people who still say it's better than HotS.
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On November 29 2015 17:16 insitelol wrote:
It's funny and painfull at the same time to see some people still hyping this. Lol at DK one hundred times and his futile attempts to make this game "more popular". I must remind you guys that when hots came out there was a considarable increase in viewership (compared to WoL at its end), like ~ 100k for a tournament finals was standard for the first few months. How good and appealing your LotV is, when viewership DROPS compared to HotS last tournaments? (ok, at most it stays the same). Is this how it is meant to be? Yes, i hate this expansion so fucking much. It's a complete failure. In the first place because it ruined a 5 years meta for NOTHING. Literrally NOTHING. Ye, you can laugh at this and say some obvious bs like: "bla-bla-bla just try and learn new things its so exciting, it's a new level for this game where everything will be more balanced and OF COURSE more fun to watch". Fuck yes. Obviously. We should all start figuring out new meta for few couple of years instead of actually playng the game just because DK thinks these.. so to say... "changes" will make SC better.
Ok. Now about the DH. I sit and watched this. Honestly. Trying to see what's "everybody hyping" so much. And all i saw was horrible designed new units (glimpses of much better desgined units called reaver), absense of meta, where mediocre europeans are on par with parting. But most annoying part was that i couldn't figure out why. Why should i go on ladder and startover after 5 years of grinding it.
15 years of BW history is 100k times exciting with 10 units to each side and w/o turning its meta upside down every 3 years. Beauty is in simplicity.
On November 29 2015 18:04 Charoisaur wrote:
100% agree. People are only hyping this up because it's new and "fresh", but you'll see, once the meta stabilizes there will be very few people who still say it's better than HotS.
let me just get this straight: there are people that think completely figured-out meta with mainly the same three builds happening in all matchups for years IS A GOOD THING?
" We should all start figuring out new meta for few couple of years instead of actually playng the game " ARE YOU SERIOUS? is "figuring out the meta" in sc2 considered to be a boring chore like levelling up a char for endgame in a fucking MMORPG? the most fun i get out of a RTS is figuring out what strategies are the best
boggles my mind. best case for sc2 actually would be for a big change to hit every season. can only see that happening via more community input or mods tho
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On November 29 2015 18:24 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2015 17:16 insitelol wrote:
It's funny and painfull at the same time to see some people still hyping this. Lol at DK one hundred times and his futile attempts to make this game "more popular". I must remind you guys that when hots came out there was a considarable increase in viewership (compared to WoL at its end), like ~ 100k for a tournament finals was standard for the first few months. How good and appealing your LotV is, when viewership DROPS compared to HotS last tournaments? (ok, at most it stays the same). Is this how it is meant to be? Yes, i hate this expansion so fucking much. It's a complete failure. In the first place because it ruined a 5 years meta for NOTHING. Literrally NOTHING. Ye, you can laugh at this and say some obvious bs like: "bla-bla-bla just try and learn new things its so exciting, it's a new level for this game where everything will be more balanced and OF COURSE more fun to watch". Fuck yes. Obviously. We should all start figuring out new meta for few couple of years instead of actually playng the game just because DK thinks these.. so to say... "changes" will make SC better.
Ok. Now about the DH. I sit and watched this. Honestly. Trying to see what's "everybody hyping" so much. And all i saw was horrible designed new units (glimpses of much better desgined units called reaver), absense of meta, where mediocre europeans are on par with parting. But most annoying part was that i couldn't figure out why. Why should i go on ladder and startover after 5 years of grinding it.
15 years of BW history is 100k times exciting with 10 units to each side and w/o turning its meta upside down every 3 years. Beauty is in simplicity. Show nested quote +On November 29 2015 18:04 Charoisaur wrote:
100% agree. People are only hyping this up because it's new and "fresh", but you'll see, once the meta stabilizes there will be very few people who still say it's better than HotS. let me just get this straight: there are people that think completely figured-out meta with mainly the same three builds happening in all matchups for years IS A GOOD THING? " We should all start figuring out new meta for few couple of years instead of actually playng the game " ARE YOU SERIOUS? is "figuring out the meta" in sc2 considered to be a boring chore like levelling up a char for endgame in a fucking MMORPG? the most fun i get out of a RTS is figuring out what strategies are the best boggles my mind. best case for sc2 actually would be for a big change to hit every season. can only see that happening via more community input or mods tho
AMEN!!
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From what I've seen this game is still in beta, but they've released it anyway. Sure, some games were quite good and it's still too early to pin down potential balance offenders, but at least you got an idea of what the meta will probably look like in a few weeks.
Terran got 0 tech choices in every match now, limited to opening bio/tank/medivac, as a player it's just depressing, Liberator ground mode is super strong, but overall I don't like it.
Protoss is still as gimmicky, but has Disruptors now which seem to be insanely good right now, even better with the new Warp Prism. PvP looked fun, but I'm pretty sure that will wear off soon enough, given how stressful that interaction is to the players.
Overall it's so much faster with an economy ramping up significantly earlier, which seems to favor Zerg a bit right now, harassing is stronger than ever, everyone needs to rally between main and natural due to anxiety 
Overall my impression is Blizzard really tried to improve the viewer experience without actually thinking about what that means to the players (which should be the most important target group imo).
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Based on what i seen,i dont see terran winning much.Protoss is too strong.Zerg is more or less ok.
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On November 29 2015 18:24 summerloud wrote:
let me just get this straight: there are people that think completely figured-out meta with mainly the same three builds happening in all matchups for years IS A GOOD THING?
" We should all start figuring out new meta for few couple of years instead of actually playng the game " ARE YOU SERIOUS? is "figuring out the meta" in sc2 considered to be a boring chore like levelling up a char for endgame in a fucking MMORPG? the most fun i get out of a RTS is figuring out what strategies are the best
boggles my mind. best case for sc2 actually would be for a big change to hit every season. can only see that happening via more community input or mods tho
Literally any classic kind of sport. Ok, chess. Chess is out there for thousands of years to an extent noone even remembers who invented it. Does core rules, no, just "any" rules are being changed every fucking time someoone thinks it's not enough viewers? it's not fun? or any other kind of bullshit? The problem is you treat SC2 as "some funny stuff i like to play and watch every now and then", while i treat it like a sport. Yes it's just a hobby to me. But i take it seriously. Your logic is shallow. It's a fucking consumer mindset: "I'm so bored lets change the fuck out of everything every season, i don't play it so let those retards who actually dedicate time to the game feel like scrubs". And no, "figuring what strategies are best" is not fun. The truth is you can't see further than you nose, because game evolves step by step. "new stratejiezz" are just the beggining. First, there are some new strategies, then those strategies evolve into newer strategies and so on. Repeating brings new quality. It actually. takes. some. fucking. time. If you think Hots is completely figured out you delude yourself. Like soccer was figured out in the 50s. Yes. Why is it n1 sport in the world. Because they fucking inventing new strategies. But i guess it's too complicated for you. You are just watching people wasting their lives playing video games on internet. It's so boring isn't it?
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Personally I enjoyed the variety in the different matchups. Curious where it will all go when the meta is figured out. There weren't really that many good terrans on display, so I'll withhold judgement on them
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On November 29 2015 19:15 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2015 18:24 summerloud wrote:
let me just get this straight: there are people that think completely figured-out meta with mainly the same three builds happening in all matchups for years IS A GOOD THING?
" We should all start figuring out new meta for few couple of years instead of actually playng the game " ARE YOU SERIOUS? is "figuring out the meta" in sc2 considered to be a boring chore like levelling up a char for endgame in a fucking MMORPG? the most fun i get out of a RTS is figuring out what strategies are the best
boggles my mind. best case for sc2 actually would be for a big change to hit every season. can only see that happening via more community input or mods tho Literally any classic kind of sport. Ok, chess. Chess is out there for thousands of years to an extent noone even remembers who invented it. Does core rules, no, just "any" rules are being changed every fucking time someoone thinks it's not enough viewers? it's not fun? or any other kind of bullshit? The problem is you treat SC2 as "some funny stuff i like to play and watch every now and then", while i treat it like a sport. Yes it's just a hobby to me. But i take it seriously. Your logic is shallow. It's a fucking consumer mindset: "I'm so bored lets change the fuck out of everything every season, i don't play it so let those retards who actually dedicate time to the game feel like scrubs". And no, "figuring what strategies are best" is not fun. The truth is you can't see further than you nose, because game evolves step by step. "new stratejiezz" are just the beggining. First, there are some new strategies, then those strategies evolve into newer strategies and so on. Repeating brings new quality. It actually. takes. some. fucking. time. If you think Hots is completely figured out you delude yourself. Like soccer was figured out in the 50s. Yes. Why is it n1 sport in the world. Because they fucking inventing new strategies. But i guess it's too complicated for you. You are just watching people wasting their lives playing video games on internet. It's so boring isn't it?
How can you compare video games to any classic kind of sport? To develop a classic sport it takes, as you say, many many years (hundreds/thousands). That will never happen in video games. Sure, at some point the game becomes as balanced as it gets but at that point the game will be outdated. The pace in video games can't be compared to classic games in that way I think. I hope LotV will become stable so that the meta can change without new units breaking it all the time (like Hearthstone, I can't keep up unless I quit my job and sell my family) but I think it's been a lot of fun and good for the game with changes from WoL to HotS into LotV. It was always planned as three steps and I think blizzard will fine tune it to be a great game until SC3 comes
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On November 29 2015 19:42 Legobiten wrote:
How can you compare video games to any classic kind of sport?
Just like that.
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Hey insitelol, I'm glad that when you were the only person shitting on the game in the "Thanks Blizzard for LotV" thread, that didn't stop you from presenting your opinion of LotV as that of the majority here. We wouldn't want facts to hinder the truth.
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On November 29 2015 17:22 Topdoller wrote:
The game is looking good, leave it as is for 6 - 12 months and let the pros work it all out. I would definalty take a second look at the maps, some of them look horrible in design
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I would not be surprised if, in a year or two, people will all be saying how bad LotV is. I am not saying that it is necessarily going to be that way, just that it might very well happen. The thing is that the game is simply new right now. Something new always looks exciting. WoL looked exciting when it was new. HotS looked exciting when it was new and now it is LotV. The big problems with WoL and HotS did not emerge within the first few tournaments. The problems only came forth after the meta had settled. Same thing might happen with LotV, when the meta settles we will really see what the game is like and then we might be in for a big surprise.
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First of all, I have not bought LotV (yet?) because I was not sure if the game would be for me.
While there are still a lot of things that need to be figured out, this DH gave plenty of insight into the things that have changed with LotV and confirmed my expectations. This game became way too fast for my taste! Maxed out at 8 or 9 minutes? Games beeing constantly over before the 10 minute mark? Still almost zero comeback chances?
Plus, I do remember a topic where lots of people were complaining about the short battles in SC2 and suggested a couple of changes to make fights/units last longer. It seems like LotV did exactly the opposite with introducing the Lurker, Liberator and the Disrupter. These units make whole armies vanish in the blink of an eye...
I guess Ill support a couple of tournaments by watching them but buying/playing LotV? Nah ... probably not. I really did like what HotS has become in the past 3-6 months. And players like $O$ prove that there are still things/strategies to be figured out... at least, if you are creative enough.
Edit: Despite beeing a new game, I felt that the viewernumbers were quite bad for the first big tournament in LotV. :-/
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more units available but less units used in direct fights unlike HotS.
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EPT
