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KrOeastbound
England59 Posts
On November 29 2015 08:02 blade55555 wrote: rofl yeah if you like to play turtling until deathball. Glad you think that's what a proper RTS should be. We all have different ideas of what makes a good RTS. Some of us like playing our favourite race, say Zerg, and a-moving skill compositions like roach/hydra over superior players and thinking this is how things should be. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15883 Posts
On November 29 2015 10:43 weikor wrote: Its really a step up from Hots gameplay. Something that has me excited is that Protoss adepts are so powerful in direct engagements, you can actually build a normal composition with them that challenges roach / hydra with mostly gateway units. Its definitely a lot more diverse, and even terran got plenty of new strategies. Zerg feels a little too strong at the moment. Disruptors are really carrying the matchup in PvZ Yey a complete a move unit that is very powerful. Exactly what sc2 needed. But you're right, in HotS you couldn't fight roach hydra with pure gateway units ... oh wait. You must have missed the blink sentry vs roach hydra micro battles, back when micro actually mattered. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
PvP has also improved significantly. I particularly like the mid game when both players only have a few disruptors and its an intense positional and micro battle. However, I'm not a fan of when the disruptors hit a critical number and tempests have to be made. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
On November 29 2015 10:53 Charoisaur wrote: Yey a complete a move unit that is very powerful. Exactly what sc2 needed. But you're right, in HotS you couldn't fight roach hydra with pure gateway units ... oh wait. You must have missed the blink sentry vs roach hydra micro battles, back when micro actually mattered. I mean, its not a complete a-move unit, it has utility outside direct engagements in full blown battles. With your philosophy, all units are a-move units. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On November 29 2015 10:53 Charoisaur wrote: Yey a complete a move unit that is very powerful. Exactly what sc2 needed. But you're right, in HotS you couldn't fight roach hydra with pure gateway units ... oh wait. You must have missed the blink sentry vs roach hydra micro battles, back when micro actually mattered. I don't know what you have against A move so much. Imo that's about half of what Starcraft is about, with the other half being the macro and correctly positioning yourself, keeping map control etc.. If you like micro to the max you should check out Warcraft 3. "Micro" units freshen it up of course but I really don't want it to become a game where you assemble an army where every unit has some kind of skill and battles become about just using various combinations of very powerful skills and the focal point of the game becomes the micro in battles with quickly maxed out armies, as opposed to the actual economy of the game. And that part is pretty bad in LotV imo. Seems like you max out super fast and the biggest economy advantage you could imagine to realistically happen in this game is of absolutely no help if you lose a big fight because you mismicroed against a one-shot AOE once. This is from an observer perspective. From a player perspective it also just sucks to play your heart out all game and then you lose it because you make a single objectively small mistake (not splitting correctly for example and losing a bunch of units too much) in one moment of the game, and you just can't come back even though you might have a huge econ advantage (because of a huge steamroll factor). Regarding micro btw, I feel like a lot of the units that require some kind of micro right now are pretty boring and don't rely on the skill of the user very much actually. Lurkers might actually be the best with regards to this, I still think it's a pretty useless unit but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise when I see some pro korean split them perfectly and zone control the shit out of an enemy or whatever. On the other hand you mostly have units like the disruptor who literally has a single click attack that will devastate the enemy, takes no skill at all to use whether it does anything or not mostly depends on what your opponent is doing and how they react to it. Most of the micro stuff like this in the game is like this. Ravager bombs, widow mines, etc. Ideally there would be a balance where both players require skill to use a unit (or unit composition) and skill to basically counter the use of that unit, but I can't actually think of many examples here because it always seems to swing one way or the other in this game. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36990 Posts
On November 29 2015 06:54 boxerfred wrote: B-but Lilbow practiced so hard for LotV! FFS boxerfred, you need to keep up with the program. He's clearly practicing for SC3. Didn't you talk to Zealously? | ||
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Highways
Australia6102 Posts
Terran feels underdone though. Maybe add spider mines to cyclones? | ||
Poopi
France12762 Posts
I agree tho that it might be problematic if gaining small advantages over time becomes useless because it's all about the fights. To answer to the question of the OP, I feel the game to be kinda cool to play but as a terran I feel like we weren't given new cool units and/or cool new abilities whereas P/Z got some, so we don't gain much fun, and the fun to play compositions such as bio / mines / medi vs muta ling blings don't seem to be there anymore, so it could have been much better for us unfortunately. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
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a4bisu
Australia86 Posts
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Ctesias
4595 Posts
In other notes, disruptors in PvP are... peculiar. I hope the match up improves fun-wise going forward. Ravagers, while perhaps not overpowered, seem too good in that they work against everything, especially against Terran. Perhaps it's just because the game is so new, but I really don't like how versatile they are. Overall a decent tournament, but mainly it was interesting because it was the first proper one for Lotv, rather than because of the players, the games or the ending. On November 29 2015 16:42 a4bisu wrote: can anyone point a link for the best games of the tournament? I'm not sure on any links, but Parting vs TY game 3 and 4 were some of the best games I've seen in a long time. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
oh and put some half-decent maps in the pool :/ | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
Ok. Now about the DH. I sit and watched this. Honestly. Trying to see what's "everybody hyping" so much. And all i saw was horrible designed new units (glimpses of much better desgined units called reaver), absense of meta, where mediocre europeans are on par with parting. But most annoying part was that i couldn't figure out why. Why should i go on ladder and startover after 5 years of grinding it. 15 years of BW history is 100k times exciting with 10 units to each side and w/o turning its meta upside down every 3 years. Beauty is in simplicity. | ||
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My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
United States257 Posts
I loved the TY ParTing games 2,3, but in that game they managed to dodge everything for long enough to make the games great. But it's sort of a ridiculous president to set. In game 5 TY just couldn't follow the adepts well enough and he lost. If Parting hadn't Dodged everything with his Stalkers, WP, adepts he would've lost. I feel like missed Dodges will be 20x more common than "amazing micro" in deciding games, which means games will be lost by one player rather than one by the other. What does everyone think of this? Watching Parting fall apart in the final was interesting. Solar followed better than Parting dodged you could maybe say. Except in game 6 which was just a weird game. | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
LotV viewing experience seems overall way better than HotS, it's refreshing and actually has some new and fun stuff. Game pacing being different is nice, action is a lot more frantic and tense on the whole. I don't have any matchup specific things to say but all in all this was a good sign for the future. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
its really hard to tell how much of that was due to unstable meta and how much due to the game actually being better than HotS that said, im pretty sure now it is superior to HotS in many ways, and i have to take at lest some of my LotV hate back that said, i still think 1) 12 worker start is too much, limits early game builds, combined with the mineral change it feels like expanding is forced too much instead of rewarded. i would have much rather had an eco system that just allows you to build way more stuff the more bases you have 2) kinda connected to that: supply limit is too low imho. this has been true since WoL, but its more visible now due to the huge maps. eg: parting vs showtime - just imagine how much more fun that would have been with even bigger armies or the potential to build up more units for harass. i think the supply ceiling will become a big issue in this game: it is way too fast to reach, and with all the zoning tools one can easily envision game where both players build up huge banks. i never liked the idea of banking money because you are not allowed to build units any more 3) pylon overcharge is just dumb and limits early game aggression and build variety even more in any matchup that includes protoss. i thought the idea was to shorten the phase of the game where nothing happens? then maybe dont give toss a tool to shut down any form of early aggression? 4) PvP is lots of fun to watch now, impossible to play at my skill level though. and if the meta really settles on stalker/disruptor/tempest vs each other i will get sick of watching this really soon. also, it might be way too volatile 5) all matchups still center around dragoon-like big high-hp ranged units too much, that has been one of the biggest issues with sc2 from the start. melee units are limited to early game and harassment. marauders are still great vs protoss post-nerf even with disruptors, psi storm and colossus on the field. just shows how broken this unit really used to be. 6) corrosive bile should deal less dmg to buildings 7) i think liberators are jus silly | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
1. Economy change is a huge success, aggression is rewarded while turtling is punished, with both players struggling to retain large banks as resources must constantly be spent on expanding/producing units to secure map control I see way more skirmishes and very few turtle games 1.a. Multitasking is much more rewarded, there is just alot more shit to do at a given time compared to HOTS. 2. Deathballing is weaker, units like the Lurker/Liberator/Disruptor make deathballing way worse, which is good for the game. 3. Disruptors are carrying way way too hard in ZvP and are the go to unit in their mirror so I don't know about that, probably best to let the pros figure it out. 3. TvP is an interesting match up to watch? Since when? Oh yea, since LOTV, wow this match up became awesome, so much action, 4. PvP seems even more retarded then it once was but hey Disruptor wars better then Colossus wars I guess? 5. These maps are horrid, before any balance changes at all come out can we get a pool of community made maps? I don't know why Blizzard repeats this same song and dance but they have routinely shown that they have zero ability to make competitive level maps. 6. HOTS to LOTV feel way more fresh and exciting then WOL to HOTS where very few things were changed. 7. Pylon Overcharge needs to be nerfed, it just looks too strong/spammable, much like Corrosive Bile. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
Horrible to play. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
- Less boring minutes where nothing happens due to a higher worker start. - Seems to be less Deathball gameplay in general. In HotS it often was just Protoss (and sometimes Zerg, rarely mech Terran) camping & trying to get max units and then attacking once and GG. - PvT improved a ton, all games that didn't end by Protoss cheese were great. - Lurkers, Liberators and Disruptors all seemed to fun to me, they all allow for defensive and offensive tools. Things that could improve / I didn't like: - For PvP Disruptor battles could become boring. I blame it on their rather fast movement speed (at least if you compare it with Reavers) which allows for retreats. - PvZ didn't impress me mostly, but some longer games were good. Unfortunately most of them ended in cheese, so I can't really give an opinion except I didn't like those. - ZvZ doesn't seem to have changed much, though IDK how you could change it. I like to watch ling / baneling though and that happened sometimes, so I guess it's fine. - I didn't catch many TvT's yet, so I can't really comment, though the Tank pickup does seem problematical from what I've seen. I doubt it adds to the quality of the TvT's. | ||
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