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I've only watched a few games so take it with a grain of Terran salt:
Adept + Warp Prism seems really strong. Not unstoppable but unless you have very good micro you can end up losing your entire mineral line very fast. The only thing I did keep noticing was that TY never raised the depots between his main and natural whilst the Adepts were transferring. Raising them just for a few seconds to deny the teleport could help, but in every game they got amazing amounts of worker kills even though TY was there to defend. 10-15 SCVs lost was the minimum each time. Since they only cost 100/25 and murder anything Light, it feels off when you consider the original nerf to Blue Flame Hellions. I dislike the Adept because it limits Terran's options even further in the early game. You have to have a decent amount of Marine/Marauder or else its GG when the Warp Prism shows up.
I think Adepts themselves (as in their raw stats) are alright but they can come so early with a Warp Prism and then teleport around. Maybe if something is done about their teleport in the early game it would be a little easier to hold without outright nerfing the unit. Maybe if they took additional damage whilst the ghost image is active?
Beyond that, Marine/Marauder after all these years of TvP is still the only way to go.
TY made it look strong but I doubt I can dodge Disruptors anywhere near as well or hold a good Adept + Warp Prism attack. Every game TY opened 1/1/1 with Marine, Cyclone, Tank, Medivac/Liberator. Whilst I do like 1/1/1 openings in general, it currently feels like it is the only way to open that doesn't die to Warp Prisms.
Any counter attack (such as TY tried with Cloak Banshee) gets outright denied by Pylon Overcharge + observer/oracle/cannon.
Liberators feel a bit silly in their damage but at the same time, they're the only thing keeping Terran afloat right now.
It was the only thing in all of TY's games that forced Protoss to back off.
Pylon Overcharge is still just stupid in my opinion. To this day I honestly still don't get why Protoss needs it when they have the best cheap defensive structure (shoots air, ground, has shields and detects) and can warp-in defensively.
It leads to weird situations where pylons can be nearly the only thing needed for defense.
Hearing casters say that pylons are doing a lot of damage also just feels silly.
Seriously, why does Protoss need Pylon Overcharge? When a Warp Prism drops Adepts into my mineral line and warps in a bunch more, where is my one-click defense button to buy time? I have neither a defensive structure that can shoot ground, or warp units in for defense. I have to run home and pray I get there in time or just not leave my base. I recall the original reason having to do something with stopping the 4gate vs 4gate era, but this is overdoing it.
I'd be fine with Warp Prisms if I could atleast return the favor without having to fear a bunch of Pylons getting angry.
Hopefully the meta will provide the answers, but I do strongly hope that Terran isn't forced into only one or two builds in early game TvP due to fear of whatever Protoss can throw at them (Oracle, DT, 7gate Blink or Adept + Warp Prism).
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Denmark145 Posts
LotV is definitely a better game than HotS. It's a lot more fun to play because all the micro abilities makes for much more variance in gameplay. In HotS there were so many times where you could tell that 1 army would win no matter what, but LotV has more potential for cool plays.
Do people really prefer colossus wars in PvP to the disruptor? To me it seemed incredibly hard to play, and one shot can change how the game plays out entirely. Personally i felt really hyped watching parting vs showtime, those types of games really reward the player with the better mechanics. Disruptors might be too strong for the defending player though, but i think as we get better we'll start to see people split their army up, and try to flank more in fights.
The economy is also so much better. No more camping with 66 workers while building the perfect composition, which is something that really made HotS stale towards the end. I get that there's still room for a lot of improvement, which i won't talk about here. but i really don't understand why people are being so pessimistic. Everyone i know who actually plays the game a lot thinks it's so much better
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Do you know where I can find PartinG's build ?
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I liked the tournament a lot; the game is a lot more balanced than Blizzard feared it will be at release.
The pace makes for a lot more fun to watch experience than HOTS ever was, the strats are more diverse and this is just the beginning. I am very much looking forward to some sick strats in the upcoming tournaments.
My 2 cents on Zerg, because thats what I'm interested in:
- lurker spikes "feel" like they attack a bit too often so that might get nerfed; although that did not prevent Parting from dealing with them easily.
- people say zerg played was allowed to play way too greedy, well zerg is supposed to play greedy to be able to "swarm" and such. The difference is that the race now stands a chance to early pressure which in HOTS was so horribly weak. But I do agree that theres a very thin line between having a chance to hold early pressure, and becoming simply way too efficient for P and T to deal with. So that topic might get a lot of attention from DKs balancing.
Also, PvP disruptor vs disruptor dodgeball wars has the potential to become very boring imho, like the SH stalemate games of HOTS were before the SH nerf.
Also I am extremely glad that forcefields are where they should be now, a solid defensive tool but that can also be countered smartly, as compared to HOTS where they were simply ridiculously powerful.
Also, Snute is awesome at casting ZvZs. The pace of the game gives casters a lot more fun as well, given the amount of "OOH!" and "AAH!"s every 30 seconds. The entire expansion just improved the game so much on many levels. I am SO looking forward to GSL and Proleague.
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LotV looks great. For how new the game is, I was pleasantly surprised by the level of games we saw. I think WCS 2016 will be amazing and the games we'll get to see will blow our minds!
The new economy and anti-deathball units really improved the game a lot.
Oh and Parting and Showtime showed, that all the balance whining is completely BS once again. PvZ looked way better than people made it out to be and we should just trust Blizzard, they always managed to balance the game so far. We need way more time than 2 weeks, before crying imba imba imba.
A better mappool is what I look forward to the most, it could've made the tournament a lot better, especially the final.
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Russian Federation1613 Posts
 PartinG vs  Solar finals were quite funny though the games were not polished at all. All those disruptors, ravagers, lurkers moments are cool. Can't wait to see some more polished meta and high level play in LotV 
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On November 29 2015 20:44 Liquid`Bunny wrote:
LotV is definitely a better game than HotS. It's a lot more fun to play because all the micro abilities makes for much more variance in gameplay. In HotS there were so many times where you could tell that 1 army would win no matter what, but LotV has more potential for cool plays.
Do people really prefer colossus wars in PvP to the disruptor? To me it seemed incredibly hard to play, and one shot can change how the game plays out entirely. Personally i felt really hyped watching parting vs showtime, those types of games really reward the player with the better mechanics. Disruptors might be too strong for the defending player though, but i think as we get better we'll start to see people split their army up, and try to flank more in fights.
The economy is also so much better. No more camping with 66 workers while building the perfect composition, which is something that really made HotS stale towards the end. I get that there's still room for a lot of improvement, which i won't talk about here. but i really don't understand why people are being so pessimistic. Everyone i know who actually plays the game a lot thinks it's so much better
I think disruptor PvP is just weird, and pretty frustrating to play/ watch.
It's cool in low numbers but once it gets to 5 or 6 on both sides, it gets worse.
That being said, we saw how it is evolving in front of our eyes, it was a really cool moment.
Not saying colossus deathball is always better but we had more harass and more engagement tricks imo such as flanking with zealots from the side etc.
But overall the game has improved in both viewing and playing. Hope it stays this way and the meta settles down into a good and fun metagame.
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i am so glad for Lilbow about his great performance at DH. I guess practicing lotv in favour of blizzcon has really paid for him
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On November 29 2015 21:41 bypLy wrote:
i am so glad for Lilbow about his great performance at DH. I guess practicing lotv in favour of blizzcon has really paid for him
wow, that was savage 
its a process, #Ibelieve
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I really enjoyed this DH although no terran hope was to be seen.
On November 29 2015 21:41 bypLy wrote:
i am so glad for Lilbow about his great performance at DH. I guess practicing lotv in favour of blizzcon has really paid for him
It put a smile on my face to see him fail early group stage. I know it is rude to celebrate someone failure..but in this case...i think he should retire after this performance.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I think we need more time before making drastic changes.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
i liked it a lot even the grenade volleyball of pvp
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I made the mistake to tune in during a PvP. Aside from that it was okay for me I think ? not as cool as WoL but better then HotS. But I hate to play LotV soooo I will probably not be a long term interested person.
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It's the same every expansion, people get hyped that the game is "so much better" than the last version of the game.
Then we wait a few months and players start to abuse their stuff a lot more, 'imba' strategies and army compositions get figured out and in the end it all comes down to whichever army is more cost effective because that's how the economy works in this game.
I think we will have lots and lots of great games regardless though, that's just how korean starcraft works :D
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I really loved this DH. I haven't played much in the last couple years and only watch occasionally but his got me laddering again. I'm surprised by all the negativity.
I love the disruptor. It is an exciting unit to watch and makes me want to play sc. It is so much better than colossus balls. A speed nerf may be nice so as to punish out of position disruptor armies. I'm concerned about the transition to tempest in the late game. That unit still seems incredibly boring.
As a protoss the adept looked great but I can appreciate it may be to powerful. It is also really fun to watch in the early game.
Ravagers are cool. Seem well balanced. Add another great positional element.
I thought Lurkers actually seemed a little weak. The protoss was able to overwhelm them and break out of the contain. They were also really awesome to watch.
I like the role the liberator plays in locking down an area but I really dislike that it is flying. Overall was a good addition to the game.
Medivac tank is really cool.
The other new terrain unit seemed really meh. I kinda feel bad for terran as it did feel the game changed the least for them.
I like that bases mine out faster but I dislike starting at a higher worker count. The early game was fun. I always enjoyed worker micro, scouting and first few unit micro. It was a distinct and fun part of the game.
Overall everything seems great and I hope Blizzard just lets the players develop the meta for awhile without any drastic patchs.
See you on the ladder.
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Judging by DH LotV looks like a mess so far.
But that's to be expected since meta isn't settled yet.
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On November 29 2015 20:44 Liquid`Bunny wrote:
LotV is definitely a better game than HotS. It's a lot more fun to play because all the micro abilities makes for much more variance in gameplay. In HotS there were so many times where you could tell that 1 army would win no matter what, but LotV has more potential for cool plays.
Do people really prefer colossus wars in PvP to the disruptor? To me it seemed incredibly hard to play, and one shot can change how the game plays out entirely. Personally i felt really hyped watching parting vs showtime, those types of games really reward the player with the better mechanics. Disruptors might be too strong for the defending player though, but i think as we get better we'll start to see people split their army up, and try to flank more in fights.
The economy is also so much better. No more camping with 66 workers while building the perfect composition, which is something that really made HotS stale towards the end. I get that there's still room for a lot of improvement, which i won't talk about here. but i really don't understand why people are being so pessimistic. Everyone i know who actually plays the game a lot thinks it's so much better
disruptor wars definitely is so much cooler than max out on lazer
for me disruptor wars is the very essence of why sc2 is awesome. It heavily rewards the player with better mechanics and multitasking, its fast paced andit requires constant focus.
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idk how me editing my first post turned into a second post...
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On November 29 2015 21:45 xtorn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2015 21:41 bypLy wrote:
i am so glad for Lilbow about his great performance at DH. I guess practicing lotv in favour of blizzcon has really paid for him wow, that was retarded its a process, #Ibelieve
FTFY
ZvT: Seems to be way worse off. Between the decrease of resources per base, less larva per inject, liberators shitting on mutas and the constant expanding and manage said expansions zerg would have to do to keep up with economy I fear ling bling muta is no longer viable. lingbling muta vs bio mine created some of the coolest gameplay ive ever seen (in my opinion)
Roach ravager seem like a boring combo incapable of defending vs drops and impossible to go past 4 bases on (on some maps it seems to difficult to even keep 4 bases as Z).
TvT: I like the bio tank play for now but I fear that as long as we have flying siege tanks and the current eco mech nor pure bio will no longer be an option as mobile forces are the key to victory.
TvP: So far it seems awesome. Im glad Terran can once again apply early pressure onto protoss. I like the positional play liberators and disruptors add to the game.
ZvZ: full on aggression from the get go, possibly due to how wonky maps are right now.
Lots of ling bling wars which I personally find very cool, as long as theres a way to get out of it. Hoping for more refined builds to come along and save us from the mass hatch tech.
ZvP: Finally protoss cant spam blinkstalkers + forcefieldbots and march to victory without the zerg being able to counter it!
I personally LOVE how ravagers and lurkers seem to shut down deathballplay. I really like how if protoss wants to all-in they better dedicate to it now. my only fear is that it seems equally difficult to push into disruptors, which means that zerg players wont go off creep before hivetech (I think vipers and broodlords would be a good way to deal with them). I see the potential for really cool positional play and in your face aggression but it might as well swing the other way and become defensive and stale.
PvP went from being my least favorite matchup to my top 3. Loving the disruptor wars! They seem incredibly difficult to play, very rewarding for good multitaskers and I hope that when the metagame develops people will find ways to flank the disruptors and whatnot to break the defensive player.
TL;DR:
All matchups apart from ZvT seems to have been improved. Theyre more reliant on mechanics and multitasking, less about turtling and building the perfect army (for now, this might change when zerg players realise how difficult it is to push into disruptors compared to sit on creep and tech).
Mobile armies seem to be a must, which may lead to less diversity.
Protoss might need a better ground to air unit?
I cant wait to see the gameplay and builds get more refined as players progress.
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On November 29 2015 07:16 Charoisaur wrote:
TvZ - MUCH worse. bio mine vs ling bane muta was the greatest unit interaction in RTS history and now that's hardly played anymore.
TvP - better than post-mine buff tvp but worse than pre-mine-buff tvp. Chargelot archon templar vs bio was more fun imo.
PvZ - Worse. Instead of exciting blink sentry vs roach hydra play with constant fighting and positional battles we now have boring blink disruptor play where you pray to land a huge disruptor shot to win the game.
TvT - 1000 times worse. lol tankivacs ruin the matchup and mech is dead.
PvP - I always thought nothing is as bad as collossus wars but the disruptor wars showed me: it gets even worse.
ZvZ - Basically the same, just that you have to dodge ravager shots here and there.
Economy: terrible, comebacks are nearly impossible, once you fall behind you lose. Super stressful to play.
the 12 worker start heavily limits buildorders. 2 base timings or pressure builds weaker because you run out of ressources.
Overall LotV feels like a huge downgrade from HotS. a shame that we have to stick with this garbage for the next years.
Some people seem to like it but it's only because it's new. Once the meta stabilizes you'll wish that HotS would still be played.
Fortunately HotS Ladder is still going strong, if you want to play a proper RTS you can join me there.
rofl how wrong you are...
The biggest thing, of all this, is thank god that colossus is finally gone. It was a badly designed unit. The disruptor is a nicely designed unit and make for amazing games. Suddenly, it's possible for protoss to come back into a game, WITHOUT having to resort to a gamble DT play hoping for opponent to forget detection (please remove DTs from the game).
The lurker is, has and should always be a strong unit if ignored. You're not supposed to attack into lurkers, just as you're not supposed to attack into siege tanks or liberators.
TvT has some cool dynamic play right now. Mech is currently not used, but we're only a few weeks into the game. People will figure out how to mech, do not worry.
LOTV has been great so far.
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EPT
