EPTFezvez's' Co-op guide and hero review - Page 6
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d07.RiV
Russian Federation50 Posts
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 02 2015 17:27 BronzeKnee wrote: I probably went a bit too overboard. He is much better now that I have access to Reavers and Tempests have Disintegration and my Templar have the energy upgrade. Still, early game his Zealots and Dragoons are quite bad. If his early game got fixed, he'd be much better. In the Temple mission, I've been run over by the waves of Zerglings early unless I rush Whirlwind, and before I had access to it, I'd just die. I recommend rushing 2 immortal into Reavers. Immortals to kill the rocks, then Reavers for AoE. On December 02 2015 22:26 d07.RiV wrote: What do you do as Kerrigan vs air? Enemy armies tend to be extremely air heavy towards the end of the game, and most of your suggested compositions feature no anti-air at all? I've found mutas to be extremely unviable (everyone knows you don't do 2 base muta) and hydras are just not strong enough to take on things like multiple Gorgons. Queens are all you need except for the Shuttle missions. The best Kerrigan build i've found goes 5 upgrade Queen/Broodlord. You very slowly build up Broodlords, but Kerrigan and Queens are surprisingly strong until you do. Broodlords are also one of the hidden OP units in the game. | ||
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w3jjjj
United States760 Posts
On December 02 2015 17:27 BronzeKnee wrote: I probably went a bit too overboard. He is much better now that I have access to Reavers and Tempests have Disintegration and my Templar have the energy upgrade. Still, early game his Zealots and Dragoons are quite bad. If his early game got fixed, he'd be much better. In the Temple mission, I've been run over by the waves of Zerglings early unless I rush Whirlwind, and before I had access to it, I'd just die. I find Artanis' lvl 15 bonus of 200 starting supply is a game changer. Extra minerals saved from not building pylons allow you to make everything else so much faster, which makes his early game that much easier. I use the power field ability to make my first gateway faster (you don't need pylon with 200 starting supply), make 1 pylon at natural for a warp in point, when gateway finishes make a core and chrono the gateway, use the 1 gateway on chrono to warp in 2 zealots and 3 dragoons at the natural, they can kill the rock before the first wave arrives and you will also have 400 minerals to make a nexus. I think this is the fastest way to expand. Use orbital strike to help clear the first wave so you don't lose any unit. Rush robo tech to reaver after expansion. Don't make more dragoons, you want to save gas for robo support bay and reaver. Getting 1 reaver out can clear wave two, it's OK to lose some zealots on wave 2 but don't lose the reaver. Use solar lance on wave 3 for easy clear. (All this assume you are defending solo, if your partner can help with wave 2 then your early game is super easy). After wave 3 you should have a booming economy from the early expansion, just keep adding reavers and immortals to dominate ground battles. Warp in zealots to tank for your robo units, and minimize dragoon production to save gas for reaver/immortal and upgrades, only make enough dragoons for anti air. The dragoon upgrades are over priced and not that useful, get the zealot upgrades first. | ||
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Xsyq
143 Posts
Swann: He's actually really good. He has the fastest expansion build of any hero once you get advanced construction, don't remember exact numbers but what I usually do is: 14 Supply Depot, add 3 SCVs to finish in time for 16th SCV 16 Factory, build with the 4 workers from the supply depot 17 Devastator turret at rocks with the same 4 workers, start attacking Another Devastator turret with the 4 workers as soon as the first finishes (might have to cut a worker), attack the rock with the workers as well once it finishes Once the rocks are dead (should be about 2:30) salvage the turrets for 300 minerals and build a command center with the 4 SCVs, should be up and running by 3:10 or so. After that you can build Perdition Turrets (two is usually enough for any first wave if you have a couple SCVs repairing) and Refineries (you can build them with 3 SCVs and they will all start auto-gathering), adding on an Armory for upgrades ASAP. I usually go with another Factory and Starport with about 50/50 split between Tanks and Goliaths with a couple Hercules and Science Vessels. You'll usually only need 5 Hercules to fit your entire maxed army and you won't need much healing since nothing will get in range with Maelstrom Rounds (just ridiculous vs Protoss, 2-shotting Zealots is awesome). Zagara: Actually really good late game when you can spam Bile Launchers. They're the best defensive structure in the game (especially with the upgrades, +3 range and -2 second cooldown I think), hitting air and ground with AOE damage at long range. Artanis: I find that zealot archon or Stargate comps tend to suck. Zealots will lose early because they have half normal damage and tend to die to hybrids pretty easily even with storm heals while Tempests are pretty slow and unfulfilling damage wise. Pheonix are nice and can actually take out Void Thrashers and Void Shards but take a while to get going. I usually go Dragoon/Immortal/Reaver. Skip Zealots entirely, get gas early, make enough Dragoons to kill the rocks and hold off the first wave then rush to Robotics Bay and get Reavers. 4-5 Reavers with Solarite Payload are enough to devastate pretty much anything (and that's all you'll really have the gas for anyway), so make many Immortals to tank from there on out. A couple gateways for Dragoon AA warp-in is a nice backup. Artanis in general is going to float a whole lot of minerals and be very gas starved, Swann makes for a good partner with extra gas and Science Vessel/SCV healing. Kerrigan: I go mainly lings most games with a few hydra/lurker/ultra tacked on. Fully upgraded lings have 20 DPS each regardless of armor and always get the surround, so even with AOE damage on the enemy side they rarely last long enough to use it. Hydras help if there's a ton of air that Kerrigan can't handle on her own, Lurkers are great on defensive maps, and Ultras are there to beef up your comp a bit. Unfortunately Mutas are ridiculously gas expensive with all the upgrades they have, so you'll want Swann as a partner and you'll probably have to cut most ling upgrades. If you try going Brood Lords you'll probably only make it to 10 or so without cutting a lot of upgrades. Make good use of the assimilation aura to get as much gas as possible, the more expensive a unit is the more gas it drops (Zealots actually drop a bit of gas because of this). Timing a stun wave and an assimilation aura together works extremely well. Raynor: Mainly just Marines. A couple tanks are a good investment for later game when hybrids start shredding your bio-ball, but even with the quick siege and afterburners they don't compare to Swann's Maelstorm tanks with Hercules. Battlecruisers are pretty much useless, you'll never get enough of them with upgrades to make a difference. Vultures are really good, especially on the train map since the train will trigger mines, but you don't really have anti-air. Haven't tried out Vikings or Banshees much, but I imagine they wouldn't do so well (at least on Brutal, where pretty much every wave has detection and AOE spells). I would rank the maps from hardest to easiest like so: 1. Shuttle Launch. Very tough ground attack waves here. You will probably lose the first bonus playing with random pubs since there's three attack waves going by it. The last wave of Shuttles have Lokis (with Missile Pods), Leviathans, or Motherships included. Zagara makes this map trivial with Scourge. 2. Trains. Fairly hard attack waves and very beefy trains to chew through. Terran on this map is just the worst. Nukes, like 4 banshees spawning with every attack wave/train, and Seeker-happy Ravens. Swann makes this easy with tanks and turrets (the devastator turrets will slow the train and are great en masse because of the bonus to armored), and zerglings with all upgrades will bring down the trains real quick. 3. Xel'naga Temple. Fairly hard attack waves widely spaced out, this is mainly just putting a few defenses at each side and moving your army to whichever one is getting attacked. Commanders with high mobility are great for killing void thrashers and moving back (Swann with Hercules, Zerg, Vorazun with Dark Pylon Recall). 4. Sgt Hammer's Fortress. Mainly a macro check. You need enough stuff to kill the Void Thrashers before they wear down the Fortress too much. Can be annoying if the enemy is Zerg because of burrowed lurkers defending early. 5. Void Shards. Really forgiving time limit and attack waves. Pretty much any unit composition is viable here, including mass corruptor or battlecruiser. I'm up for playing co-op with anyone, battletag is Xsyq#1301. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
How do people feel about the achievements for the various commanders. Raynor - easily done before level 15. Zagara - making a ton of banelings on brutal lets you get huge chunks of progress whenever the enemy is zerg or terran, and the other achievements are pretty easily done. Artanis - warping 5k units is a huge pain. Most missions you won't even break the 150 mark. I guess this one could be farmed by going zealot observer and constantly sacrificing them on normal? Vorazun - Pretty easy with a decent ally. 2-300 per mission is doable if actively farming for it. Main problem is that vorazun is so broken that timestop is just another OP spell that kills everything. Swann - Gas mining - Purely a function of time. huge PITA to get. Kerrigan - Not too hard to get provided playing on brutal | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5214 Posts
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DrSeRRoD
United States490 Posts
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Phael
United States281 Posts
On December 03 2015 19:20 Amui wrote: So, on a different topic. How do people feel about the achievements for the various commanders. Raynor - easily done before level 15. Zagara - making a ton of banelings on brutal lets you get huge chunks of progress whenever the enemy is zerg or terran, and the other achievements are pretty easily done. Artanis - warping 5k units is a huge pain. Most missions you won't even break the 150 mark. I guess this one could be farmed by going zealot observer and constantly sacrificing them on normal? Vorazun - Pretty easy with a decent ally. 2-300 per mission is doable if actively farming for it. Main problem is that vorazun is so broken that timestop is just another OP spell that kills everything. Swann - Gas mining - Purely a function of time. huge PITA to get. Kerrigan - Not too hard to get provided playing on brutal I got the achievement for Raynor and Zagara without trying by level 12. Vorazun took me like 5 games after reaching level 15 when I went back in and checked - I'm sure someone could get it before level 15 if they were aiming for it. Artanis required 14 games after I reached level 15 (I started keeping track by then). Swann required 13 games after I reached level 15. Kerrigan required 11 games after I reached level 15. I picked up Vorazun's without any planning, but I actually picked strategies for the achievements after hitting 15. I played Artanis only on the shuttle launch map because they had the meanest enemies and so I could more easily suicide my units (warped in lots of zealots and templars and dumped the rest into observers), so I could pick up ~220-230 warp ins per map. It went up to ~270 if I was able to take an early third by clearing out one of the enemy bases. I finished Swann's achievement on the temple defense map. I think it was something like 3400 or 3500 gas every map, and I was at 6k or so when I hit 15. I went for Kerrigan's achievement on oblivion express. This is a lot more enemy reliant - I could only stun around 150-200 units per game on Brutal depending on how quickly we killed the trains, I think I peaked around 600 once for zerg. Anyway, overall I didn't use stun that much leveling to 15 so it took a while knocking it out. | ||
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iceman12
10 Posts
I agree with fezvez (i.e., the OP) on his assessment of the various characters so I won't rehash what's already been said. Instead, I wanted to give a few more specific pointers re: brutal. (Most of these don't really make a difference on hard and below.) Call-downs (e.g., banshee, ares bots, shadow-guard, roaches, solar flare): - I started giving my ally a heads-up if I plan to use a calldown to defend an upcoming wave / defending an attack during first train / shuttle / etc. It's always overkill in early game for both players to use a calldown against a single wave (e.g., banshee + ares bots) and this usually happens (atleast, this was the reason for me) because players just don't talk to each other and then panic when lings are in the base. - Also, if your ally is Kerrigan, then try to resist the urge to use a calldown on the second wave. Kerrigan - This is the commander who I see misplayed the most and it's largely because of the fact that she is your sole source of AoE until mid-late / late game (ultras, lurkers) - I learned the hard way to always assume 100% responsibility for the first wave (against which Kerrigan is notoriously weak, bc the Kerrigan unit has yet to pop and you don't get uber fast drone saturation like Zagara). I'm sure there are other ways to do it but my perosnal method is to sandwich two spines between my main hatch and my pool / first evo chamber (to limit surface area against Zerg and Protoss AI). I then use my lings to bait the first wave into these spines, taking care to lose as few as possible (ideally none). A little bit more micro needed against Terran AI bc the surface area trick doesn't do much against marines - I usually have two queens out by the time the first wave hits, and I use them to tank - burrowing when they're health gets low (burrow doesn't need to be researched in coop). Two spines is a huge investment, though - when I'm allied with Vorazun, I'll just ask if they're planning to get DTs, if I'm allied with Zagara/Raynor/Swann, it's pretty easy to see if they'll have a baneling nest / turrets / bunkers up in time. When allied with Artanis...I always get 2 spines bc you never know when you're matched with someone who (intentionally or unintentionally) doesn't move his units from his natural (where they're attacking the rocks) to help defend the first wave. More often than not, I'll lose one of the two spines if I have to solo the first wave, but that's better than losing your first 6-10 lings... - Think of Kerrigan as the substitute for the baneling (esp. against Terran and Zerg AI). It should take no more than two psionic shift's to clear out the marines in the first couple terran waves. It usually takes more than two shifts to clear the lings but that's fine as the DPS that the lings deal toward Kerrigan is much less (because only the immediately surrounding lings can attack her). (Note: the priority targets in these early waves is always marines given they're the highest DPS units and they're also one-shotted by the move.) You wouldn't believe how many people I've seen just a-move Kerrigan into Terran AI waves and lose her pretty quickly... (And they weren't even solely using the jump ability - in order to get the jump-related achievement - literally just a-move and not psionic shifting at all.) - In mid and late game against protoss AI, I always use psionic shift against clumps of high templar which would otherwise shr3k my lings. (I jump to one high templar in the group, then do two shifts through the rest to kill them.) - Use her jump ability to move around the map quickly - she rebuilds energy quite fast, e.g., on the way to your / your ally's base to defend after clearing the first wave of shuttles / first train. - You can literally give the attack-move command and AFK her on the first void thrasher in both Temple and Sgt. Hammer (after clearing out the nearby enemy units). - A bit more advanced (but not that advanced, if I'm able to do it): you can remain active with her at all times. For example, on Sgt. Hammer, I usually attack the first void thrasher as soon as she spawns (I literally rally her cocoon to the location of the first thrasher). She can then clear out the second wave, which should arrive just as the first thrasher dies. I then immediately start using her to take out key units/structures that are on the way to the location of the second set of thrashers (using the jump ability which one-shots all ground units except Colossi, Thors and Hybrids). For example, against protoss AI, I'll use the jump ability twice in succession to take out two cannons, then pull back to heal, then go back in to take out any remaining cannons/immortals. You can do the same with the Colossi / cannons / immortals that are near the second set of thrashers. Against Terran AI, I go after siege tanks and bunkers. Against, Zerg AI, I go after spines and lurkers. If I'm partnered with Vorazun, I'll just get the cannons / turrets / spores and let my ally's DTs handle the rest. Of course, this assumes you're macroing (i.e., saturating minerals / gas and tech-ing hard) at the same time. If you can't do both, priority of course goes to macro. - Given Kerrigan can literally solo against the first 4-5 waves (with some additional micro needed against protoss AI bc psionic shift doesn't one-shot zealots or stalkers like it does marines and lings), there is no excuse for losing lings to these waves... I personally just keep them near my main. Keeping your lings alive is especially important on Oblivion Express (i.e., the train), where your lings have extremely high utility in killing the early trains and extremely low utility in fighting early enemy waves. - Since Kerrigan is the lynchpin of the army, I always prioritize her upgrades (at the evo-chambers) over all others, even ling speed (bc this is not ladder...). I like timing it so that my first 100 gas goes into the hatch-level upgrade, with lightning chain (i.e., the lair-level ability) started immediately after, followed by ability efficiency. - I personally think it's a mistake to bring your early lings (whose sole purpose in early-game is to knock down rocks) to defend against waves 2+. - Spread that creep...especially after you unlock malignant creep - I think Kerrigan is the weakest of the heroes against late-game Terran AI, which tends to go heavy on Banshees and Battle Cruisers along with siege tanks (and, ofc, Hybrids). Hydras just don't cut it - even with all the extra upgrades. Mutas...lol. And Kerrigan dies quite fast if you rely on her as your sole source of anti-air (toward the end of missions). Raynor - If you're not making multiple macro orbitals, ESPECIALLY against Terran AI, you're not getting close to full value out of Raynor, 'nuff said. - Similarly, if you're not updating your rallies frequently after you get orbital drops, you're losing out on a huge part of Raynor's value. - The Hyperion's yamato cannon is AoE so use it on squishy stuff that clumps, i prefer marines / zerglings because you can take out huge chunks. - Each Hyperion calldown gets 4 or 5 point defense drones. If you're not putting them all down before your Hyperion expires, you're missing a lot of value as these PDDs (I'm pretty sure) have more energy than the multiplayer PDD. Also, make liberal use of the teleport ability (which doesn't require vision) to clear out thiings like siege tanks / bunkers at the next objective location. - If you're queuing with a rando and you want to be guaranteed safe against the first wave, you need 2 bunkers with ~6 or so marines (3 in each) and 3 repairing SCVs per bunker (so 6 total). 1 bunker is sufficient against Terran and, usually, against Protoss. But 1 bunker will get r3kt by zerglings because once they run out of surface area on your bunker (which will be limited because you'll have 3-4 SCVs on it), they'll start attacking your scvs - and it's just a matter of time before you lose all scvs, the bunker and all marines inside. I always salvage these after the 2nd wave. I tend not to use walling or tanks on any maps (with the exception of a turret and 2 shrike turret bunkers at main and natural against terran AI, to catch ghosts). - Unless my ally is Swann or Vorazun, I always get my ally's rocks first because I can always float a CC into place later whereas others have to build early. Vorazun's DTs have such high damage that they usually take down the rocks faster than I could anyways. - Against Protoss, it helps to have quite a few marauders in the mix as they can tank storms better - though try to move out of the way if you can. There's a short delay between the storm animation and when the damage is dealt, so it pays to be active on this front - Against Zerg, Hellbats can clear large swaths of zerglings and hydra fairly quickly. - Against either Protoss or Zerg (and early Terran waves), vultures w/ replenishing spider mines will ensure that ground units (including the largest hybrids) just won't make it to your base. Late game Terran AI tends to use air units so the effectiveness wears off. Also, Terran AI w/ detection can often pick off mines before they're triggered because of ranged units. But seriously, I've had games on Temple (on Brutal ofc) where only a handful of ground units made it to the ramps all game. That said, it def requires more multitask than the avg commander strategy. Note: you can set vultures to auto-cast the replenishment of spider mines though its turned off by default. - In terms of upgrade priority at the barracks, I usually go Stim --> Shield --> Medic Healing (one right after another). I'll get concussive against Protoss and the two Hellbat upgrades against Zerg. - Banshee calldown's effectiveness goes down dramatically in late game but, in early game, they are remarkably good at clearing large groups of zerglings / marines (provided you time the calldown correctly) with the initial calldown itself. - Assuming you're going bio (which is the strongest, though not necessarily the only style that works), Raynor will have the toughest time against Protoss because of storm. If you have multiple macro orbitals and good upgrades on your MM (i don't make marauders against Terran), then stimmed marines + medics and scans (and constantly producing barracks) should tear through late game Terran AI armies. My solution to storm is to use Banshees or Hyperion to pick of high templar. - Be a pal and repair your ally's mechanical units with mules (Vorazun's stargate units, Artanis's dragoons/robo/stargate, Swann if he doesn't have science vessels). - I see people talking about building 20 - 30 rax, mostly reactored...that's overkill if you have halfway decent macro. With 8-10 rax, half of which are tech-labbed, I can get to to 3/3 200/200 bio very quickly and, bc I've got gas to spare, I can then get to ~8-10 3/3 Battlecruisers (with the bonus armory upgrades for range and boost) for the last 2 waves. - You don't have to scan only for cloaked units. I use scans to spot locations before we move in, just so we know where the high priority targets are. I scan over all enemy red circles on the minimap so we know if it's a big or small wave. Such is the beauty of having virtually infinite minerals =D Oblivion Express (trains) - When two trains come at the same time (which happens twice per mission), it's always safer if both you and your ally go after one train (together), then the other. Temple - Generally speaking, it's a mistake for both players to go after a single void thrasher. It's always better to have one player get the thrasher while the other one stays back to defend. (Then again, I haven't played the missions enough to notice any patterns after the first couple minutes.) If my ally gets the void thrasher, I usually move my army to the entrance between his bases - if a wave comes while he/she is at the Void Thrasher (one set of enemies at your ally's entrance, one set of enemies at your entrance), you can easily take care of the enemy units at your ally's entrance and then go back to defend your own. I have other thoughts and I'll add to this post as I get time over the next week or so. P.S. I'm rly happy that Blizz is going to set coop at faster speed if both players choose Brutal =) | ||
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pat777
United States356 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:45 monk wrote: I recommend rushing 2 immortal into Reavers. Immortals to kill the rocks, then Reavers for AoE. Queens are all you need except for the Shuttle missions. The best Kerrigan build i've found goes 5 upgrade Queen/Broodlord. You very slowly build up Broodlords, but Kerrigan and Queens are surprisingly strong until you do. Broodlords are also one of the hidden OP units in the game. So do you just go queen/hydra/broodlord in the shuttle missions? If not, what's the best comp for them? | ||
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iceman12
10 Posts
On December 05 2015 17:22 pat777 wrote: So do you just go queen/hydra/broodlord in the shuttle missions? If not, what's the best comp for them? My two cents: Against Terran on Shuttles (brutal) as Kerrigan, I personally go queen/ling/hydra and add in ultras which allows me to hold my own in all shuttle waves except for the very last one which will require decent transfusion micro, esp. on Kerrigan. But with ~10-15 queens behind, she can absorb quite a bit of damage. Just need to make sure she doesn't leave your queens' transfusion range even for a moment or she'll die. (For the very last wave, I'll replace lost units with only hydras.) By the last wave, you can easily have creep pretty much spread up to the AI wave spawn locations which should give you ample time to take down the waves and the shuttles. I have not figured out a way that Kerrigan can deal w/ the last wave of Terran units on Shuttles w/o queens (on brutal ofc). As for brood lords, I don't know if that's a joke suggestion from the previous poster but the only circumstances under which I'd make them (on any map) is if I'm playing a high level Kerrigan, my ally is Swann (bc of extra gas) and I just want a troll composition. Late-game Kerrigan has one of the strongest and fastest anti-ground comps in the game with fully upgraded raptor lings, hydras and, if you want, ultras (esp if you make use of nydus but that's optional)...so I'm not sure what the benefit of brood lords is against any of the AI races on any of the maps... Maybe I'm missing something though. | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 06 2015 09:56 iceman12 wrote: My two cents: Against Terran on Shuttles (brutal) as Kerrigan, I personally go queen/ling/hydra and add in ultras which allows me to hold my own in all shuttle waves except for the very last one which will require decent transfusion micro, esp. on Kerrigan. But with ~10-15 queens behind, she can absorb quite a bit of damage. Just need to make sure she doesn't leave your queens' transfusion range even for a moment or she'll die. (For the very last wave, I'll replace lost units with only hydras.) By the last wave, you can easily have creep pretty much spread up to the AI wave spawn locations which should give you ample time to take down the waves and the shuttles. I have not figured out a way that Kerrigan can deal w/ the last wave of Terran units on Shuttles w/o queens (on brutal ofc). As for brood lords, I don't know if that's a joke suggestion from the previous poster but the only circumstances under which I'd make them (on any map) is if I'm playing a high level Kerrigan, my ally is Swann (bc of extra gas) and I just want a troll composition. Late-game Kerrigan has one of the strongest and fastest anti-ground comps in the game with fully upgraded raptor lings, hydras and, if you want, ultras (esp if you make use of nydus but that's optional)...so I'm not sure what the benefit of brood lords is against any of the AI races on any of the maps... Maybe I'm missing something though. Broodlords (past the level you get access to Broodlord Speed) allow you to solo most missions without losing a single unit. The only mission in which you'll lose anything is the Shuttle mission. By that metric, Broodlord/Queen is the best composition. However, if your aim is to do missions as fast as possible, I can totally see comps involving more Hydras and Lings working out better. Ultras also fulfill a similar purpose to Broodlords, but I find they die a bit more even with the Reincarnation upgrade. For the shuttle mission, it's probably better to go Queen/Ultra/Hydra/Spore/Spine, although Queen/Brood/Hydra with static D works as well. | ||
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iamho
United States3346 Posts
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Xsyq
143 Posts
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DrSeRRoD
United States490 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVpUqkQUsAEeTmV.png) | ||
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
I am not as pro as others but i found that it is difficult to collect enough gas to invest upgrades for other units as well. So I just make my hydras as strong as possible. | ||
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lukekarts
3 Posts
His biggest struggle is getting an early army up and running, and the fact that you can't just rely upon one production facility (e.g. warp gate) for a reliable unit composition that you can do for other commanders. But, with good coordination with an ally, you can get an excellent composition mid-game onwards. I had a particularly fun experience defending the Temple with a Swann ally (the Vespene increase massively helps Artanis!) and he used turrets for the first couple of waves (whilst I rushed to Immortals) before we split responsibilities - he focused on blocking the entrances and responding to threats, whilst I focused on warping in my armies (Robotics and Stargate warp ins were incredibly useful) on the perimeter to gather the bonus objectives and take down void thrashers. Earlier in the matchup I had 3-4 Immortals, 4-5 Dragoons for anti-air and dumped excess minerals into a line of Zealots... by this point I stopped making Dragoons, and added 4 or 5 Reavers and 7-8 Tempests and a few more Immortals. I was also able to add all the upgrades for ground and air, which resulted in quite a powerful force of Immortals, Reavers and Tempests. I suffered very few losses and it was perhaps my easiest win on the Temple (multi-tasking is always my weakness on this map, and his stacking warp-ins really help this - focus on a push and then when you need to defend you dump all your resources into another army). Notably, the army size was always in the region of 30-40 units, which is pretty low. That said, Artanis is useless on faster-paced maps such as the defending Hammer's base... especially if you're paired with Vorazun, Raynor or Zagara. You just can't sustain the early push like those guys, by virtue of the fact your strong units are typically later to arrive and you won't start getting them until you've got your 2nd base fully up and running (all probes deployed). To put that into context, I had a Vorazun ally who was pushing forward with a load of Dark Templars and I almost felt obliged to warp in a bunch of Dragoons and Zealots to help him. But they're crappy units and it would seem like a waste of resources to build them only to see them die quickly. I don't know if anyone else has the same issue or feeling, but I wanted to apologise and say 'hey, sorry I'm not much help - I've optimised my build order and I've not wasted a single second yet Artanis just can't sustain the early push'. The first commander I played was Vorazun and I agree she is amazing, but whilst feeling overpowered it is so much fun zooming around the map cleaning everything up with a never-ending army of DTs and Corsairs I would hate for her to be nerfed. I am also therefore very much aware of how weak Artanis can be, especially at low levels. | ||
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BreakfastBurrito
United States893 Posts
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DrSeRRoD
United States490 Posts
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lukekarts
3 Posts
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