"Disagree a little bit on Artanis. The way to go is goon/reaver with zealots added long afterwards after charge, archons may not be needed at all.
You can go 14/15, skip zealots entirely, warp in 2 goons (3 in about 10 more seconds) at your natural and clear the rocks before the first wave comes, it's very stronk. Then you nexus, robo and get your first reaver and win."
Can someone elaborate on what 14/15 means? Is that 14 py 15 gate? when does second gate come? when gas? Build and skipping zealots looks fun but couldn't find anything about it anywhere else
On December 11 2015 22:37 onufer wrote: This is from the first page:
"Disagree a little bit on Artanis. The way to go is goon/reaver with zealots added long afterwards after charge, archons may not be needed at all.
You can go 14/15, skip zealots entirely, warp in 2 goons (3 in about 10 more seconds) at your natural and clear the rocks before the first wave comes, it's very stronk. Then you nexus, robo and get your first reaver and win."
Can someone elaborate on what 14/15 means? Is that 14 py 15 gate? when does second gate come? when gas? Build and skipping zealots looks fun but couldn't find anything about it anywhere else
14 pylon 14 gate 15 gate not sure about gas timing is after you start probe 16 probly just one gas instead of double feel free to experiment a bit. On an unrelated note vorazun is hilariously op apparently if your team mate vorazun leaves cause he thinks playing lv1 heroes on brutal is noobish you can take control of his hero spam sair/dt and win easily anyway
On December 11 2015 22:37 onufer wrote: This is from the first page:
"Disagree a little bit on Artanis. The way to go is goon/reaver with zealots added long afterwards after charge, archons may not be needed at all.
You can go 14/15, skip zealots entirely, warp in 2 goons (3 in about 10 more seconds) at your natural and clear the rocks before the first wave comes, it's very stronk. Then you nexus, robo and get your first reaver and win."
Can someone elaborate on what 14/15 means? Is that 14 py 15 gate? when does second gate come? when gas? Build and skipping zealots looks fun but couldn't find anything about it anywhere else
He might be talking about lvl 15 Artanis who doesn't need pylons. In that case I'm guessing 14 gate 15 gas, use the powerfield ability to make gateway so you skip a pylon. Since your gate can build up to 3 charges, you can wait for cyber core to finish and warp in 2 goons from the single gateway right away, and then a third goon shortly after. Probably need to chrono the gateway to kill the rock before first wave.
The charges on the gates means you don't need additional gates until later, 1 gate rush tech to reaver and you are unbeatable on the ground.
Thanks! Makes much more sense now that i remember his gates can have 3 charges and he can gate before first pylon. Ill experiment around with that. Thanks again!!!
On December 11 2015 18:35 lukekarts wrote: Perhaps with Karax we will see the Fenix/Talandar Spear of Adun ability, as well as the 'phasesmith' bonus of crazy fast build times on units e.g. Stargate units. I am not sure what his unit will be though, the Colossus is the only notable unit left, and Karax's ability of hijacking enemy robots is only viable against opposing Protoss. Very interested to see what direction Blizzard take here...
On December 11 2015 18:35 lukekarts wrote: Perhaps with Karax we will see the Fenix/Talandar Spear of Adun ability, as well as the 'phasesmith' bonus of crazy fast build times on units e.g. Stargate units. I am not sure what his unit will be though, the Colossus is the only notable unit left, and Karax's ability of hijacking enemy robots is only viable against opposing Protoss. Very interested to see what direction Blizzard take here...
What about Carriers?
I forgot about Carriers! Maybe because I'm so used to mind controlling them
So yeah, maybe Zealots, Stalkers & Colossus on the ground supported by Carriers in the air.. and maybe Arbiters? Quite a vespene heavy army though.
So far I have only played Zagara (15), Swann (15), and Vorazun (12). I want to play the other three, but I figured I'll get to them when I'm finished the achievements for the former three. (I played Kerrigan a few times, but that was from my ally leaving.)
I'll start with this. For me, Zagara is the strongest. Maybe it's because I'm a zerg player. Or maybe it's because I haven't maxed out Vorazun yet. But she's ridiculously strong. 3 hatches, all being injected, is enough for me to never run out of larva, and yet be able to lose and rebuild my army over and over again. Since everything morphs so quickly, you can recreate your army in almost an instant. And it's cheap as hell. After about 5 minutes I'm never wanting for resources again. Sure, Zagara may only have a 100 supply cap. But she can saturate faster than anyone else, can hit 100 way before any other hero hits 100, and keep that way without struggling for resources. I never make anything except for lings, banes, and scourge. I see no point. Aberrations are just not as strong as lings, which are absolutely ridiculous when fully upgraded. Scourge has everything covered in the sky, and makes the shuttle mission trivial (which is the hardest mission for anyone else besides Zagara IMO). Fully upgraded banelings can make things disappear in an instant. The most broken ally for Zagara is Artanis. With Artanis, all bets are off. You can just throw your lings anywhere, at any time, and watch everything die. Plus I love the temple mission with her, because that's when I have an excuse to spam bile launchers. And bile launchers are AMAZING!
I'm really enjoying Swann. For him, I usually just get 8 tanks, since that's all that can fit in a hercules (in siege mode), and with the maelstrom upgrade 8 tanks is strong enough to melt most ground armies. I get more on the temple mission. Goliaths with science vessels are strong as hell. I like having my goliath/SV death ball, and then my extra sieged tank hercules to teleport anywhere I need quick backup. I absolutely love the laser. The abilities aren't the most creative or inspired in the world (kill everything in a line, and kill everything in a circle) but they sure as hell are fun to use. I tried using wraiths once, after the starport upgrade cache, on the shuttle mission. It didn't end well, I got my ass kicked. It's probably because I didn't use them well enough, or my build was bad. Nevertheless, I don't feel very motivated to try it again, considering that goliaths are already stupid strong. The gas for your ally achievement is annoying though; I got to level 15 some time ago, and I'm only half way on this mission. It's not much of an achievement, just a test of patience.
So here's the thing about Vorazun. I know that everyone considers her OP. And that's probably true, when you mass void rays. But I hate making void rays. They're the most boring unit ever. They just fly and attack, no cool gimmick to them whatsoever. With Zagara constantly reinforcing lings banes and scourge, and swann with his teleporting tanks, I have to have something fun to do with Vorazun, and massing voids just isn't that. The only mission where I even make voids is the shuttle mission. (I get my ass kicked if I try anything else.) But yeah, her other comps are still pretty OP, but at least they're fun. My favourite go-to composition for Vorazun is DTs, DAs, zealots, corsairs, and oracles. Corsairs are just for the disruption web, and oracles for the detection. Dark archons are my favourite part about Vorazun. Even against zerg, their confusion ability is amazing. And it goes without saying that dark archons, with the starting full energy are just a blast against terran and protoss. I love having a bunch of tanks and BCs, or immortals, colossi and carriers by the end of the mission. Even against zerg there are a few things to MC, like lurkers and brood lords. (You can't MC ultras.) I mind controlled a drone the other day, but it turns out you can't build anything with them, unfortunately. I was so looking forward to making a zerg army. But yeah, having a critical mass of DTs beside your dark archons just makes everything melt. And with the confusion and disruption web, there's already so much crowd control that I never need to use black hole. (I use it a ton in the shuttle mission.)
Anyway, that's my take on the three heroes.
I'm looking forward to trying the other heroes. I'll probably play a lot of Kerrigan, because I really want to use her Omega worm. But her lack of anti air worries me a little. I'm so spoiled by scourge, it will be weird when I have a massive air army closing in on me, and I can't make them all melt in two seconds. Plus I played Kerrigan a few times from my ally leaving, and she was fun. Unfortunately I was protoss both times, so I couldn't use her "W" skill, because selecting my warp gates took precedence over her ability, so I had to click it manually which was annoying.
I'm also looking forward to using Karax. I can make a few guesses as to what he will have. For example, since he's a mech specialist, he'll probably have that passive healing ray that heals mechanical units (though considering how strong that is, I'll bet it's a very high level upgrade). Maybe he'll have shield batteries, which will make him godlike on the temple mission. He'll probably have a lot of purifier-themed units from the campaign, like the reviving zealots, adepts, fire colossi, sentries or energizers, and mirages. I'd say tempest, but Artanis already has that. Maybe he'll have carriers, since he did the carrier mission.
Question about Bile Launchers? Did they patch it so they auto attack now or do you still manually have to do it? I remember maybe a month ago making like 10 bile launchers on the train level thinking it would cover the bottom bonus train only to it get about 1/2 way through before I noticed I need to manually attack with them all. Ever since, I've never built one again.
On December 15 2015 12:16 SidianTheBard wrote: Question about Bile Launchers? Did they patch it so they auto attack now or do you still manually have to do it? I remember maybe a month ago making like 10 bile launchers on the train level thinking it would cover the bottom bonus train only to it get about 1/2 way through before I noticed I need to manually attack with them all. Ever since, I've never built one again.
You still have to manually attack with them. I still think they're godlike, so that's just a difference of opinion. It helps if you put every bile launcher you make on the same control group (I use 4), so that any time you need to use bile launchers at a certain location, you just hit "4-A-click-A-click-A-click-A-click". You still have to be able to anticipate where the enemy will be in 1 second, since that's roughly the delay time for the attack. But it's, like, five times as powerful as a fully upgraded baneling attack and it hits air, so it's definitely worth it IMO. I consider it the best defensive structure in the game.
On December 15 2015 11:54 The Bottle wrote: So here's the thing about Vorazun. I know that everyone considers her OP. And that's probably true, when you mass void rays. But I hate making void rays. They're the most boring unit ever. They just fly and attack, no cool gimmick to them whatsoever. With Zagara constantly reinforcing lings banes and scourge, and swann with his teleporting tanks, I have to have something fun to do with Vorazun, and massing voids just isn't that. The only mission where I even make voids is the shuttle mission. (I get my ass kicked if I try anything else.) But yeah, her other comps are still pretty OP, but at least they're fun. My favourite go-to composition for Vorazun is DTs, DAs, zealots, corsairs, and oracles. Corsairs are just for the disruption web, and oracles for the detection. Dark archons are my favourite part about Vorazun. Even against zerg, their confusion ability is amazing. And it goes without saying that dark archons, with the starting full energy are just a blast against terran and protoss. I love having a bunch of tanks and BCs, or immortals, colossi and carriers by the end of the mission. Even against zerg there are a few things to MC, like lurkers and brood lords. (You can't MC ultras.) I mind controlled a drone the other day, but it turns out you can't build anything with them, unfortunately. I was so looking forward to making a zerg army. But yeah, having a critical mass of DTs beside your dark archons just makes everything melt. And with the confusion and disruption web, there's already so much crowd control that I never need to use black hole. (I use it a ton in the shuttle mission.)
You're playing her completely wrong. Spam only DTs and corsairs. If your build and usage of abilities are correct, you will literally not have to use a single other unit in the entire game since shadow guard, if timed correctly, can break both player's expos AND defend the first wave with one cast. Voids are trash when they can only attack air, since DTs will instakill any ground forces while being invincible. Make liberal use of her spammable, cheap CC and global recalls with dark pylons to defend each base.
Then you'll see what's so unbelievably broken about her. You can solo any brutal mission with her without breaking a sweat.
I like Zagara most, as she has the best synergy with other heros: Zagara can free her expo, expand, free co-ops expo, kill first wave (or kill wave, then free other expo, depends on map), kill next wave, kill first target without any help of her mate. In this time the mate can fully setup, maybe use his spells for help, let his eco roll, on top he does not even need to free his expo. While that, Zagara killed the first waves and killed the first target, she sits on 21+18+12 drones, so fully saturated eco, her upgrades started, banes are there and you can go all the way to hive for the all important scourge and ling upgrades. In this moment, your mate is just there to help you, when you start falling behind. He could go super greedy in the first minutes and thus, when he starts rolling, he keeps on rolling.
Zagaras Army becomes much of a waste and rebuild army, as you build zerglings faster then siegetanks shoot and you will just keep on losing your whole army and instantly have a new one. Scourges are great, they cost not alot (after the upgrade) and they can steamroll air-armys. On the temple map, you can get rid of the shuttle drops and flying hybrids very fast, by parking scourges there. On the shuttle mission, you can just clear all waves with the scourges, for the last wave, just focus the shuttles and win.
With some commanders, Zagara has more synergy then with others: All get boostet by Zagara carrying the early game while she will still be ahead in economy, but I like to play her the most with Swan and Artanis: Swan needs extra time to get rolling, Zagara gives him this time 100%. On top, the extra gas of Swan can be used to build/morph nothing but banes. You got so much gas, that you just keep on rolling the banes into the enemy and thus clear the wave or open the targets, rebuild zergs till 100/100 and then clear of what is left or prepair a new baneling run for the next wave/target. With Artanis you get this freaking 5 secounds no dead shield (which is also great with Raynor), which makes your lings very very strong, but also stops scourges and banes from dying before they hit their target. And Artanis can start off much more gready.
Oh and yeah, Zagara has the best static of all races, as long as you keep reminding yourself to use it.
yeah. With good use of abilities it seems like only Zagara loses unit quickly. When I pay Karax I feel like my ally is carrying me the entire time since I can't build anything.
The irony is also that units build faster but you can't capitalize on this because you can't afford them.
On December 16 2015 08:37 Xsyq wrote: Even so, Swann and Artanis have pretty good sustainability of units and they don't get a huge cost upgrade. I guess carriers are too OP?
I guess what sets Karax aside is that his sustain is entirely passive and free. I really dunno.
It's not out on EU yet anyway. I'll give it a try once the patch drops and come back.
Karax needs better (more accessible) anti air units. With all attacking units costing 50% more minerals and gas, there is no easy solution. The shadow cannon upgrade for immortals doesn't come into play until level 9. Pylon and cannons won't warp in instantly until level 11. There are no low gas options. I'm kinda surprised that Blizzard didn't include those Cybros stalkers into his army.
The units are pretty strong after you unlock all their abilities and is probably worth the price increase, but they're pretty crappy before that happens.
EPT
