EPTI guess time for http://www.hitbox.tv/ than :D
Their viewers will follow them there.
Or they can stream on Youtube.
AfreecaTV bans matchfixers' streams - Page 7
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Croatia7457 Posts
I guess time for http://www.hitbox.tv/ than :D Their viewers will follow them there. Or they can stream on Youtube. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Somehow, many are saying or implying that the Korean community's united view is driven by an irrational mob mentality. I think that's uncalled for, culturally insensitive and irrelevant to the whole issue. Is unity a sign of irrationality? Of course not. Please - agree or disagree with the ban as you may wish, but there is really nothing irrational about both sides of the argument. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On October 23 2015 01:42 True_Spike wrote: Except it's not possible in the real world, so there's very little point debating that. In this case, however, it is, due to KeSPA having the strength and connections it does. It's not the (criminal) act of illegal betting we care about, it's the impact this behaviour has on our gaming scene, it's very integrity. What's punishable by law should be punished within the scope of law, but it does not mean we can't go the extra mile to further protect what we hold dear (believe it or not, impacting the Starcraft scene in a negative fashion is not a criminal offence!). We don't break their legs and dump them in the ocean. I consider this ban nothing more than a healthy precaution (much like keeping convicted pedophiles away from children; it's just reasonable) Yeah, it's so much better to hit on people without trying to understand why they did something criminal. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 23 2015 01:48 RKC wrote: Seems like the Korean Starcraft community is rather united on the ban. Whilst the TL community is rather divided. Somehow, many are saying or implying that the Korean community's united view is driven by an irrational mob mentality. I think that's uncalled for, culturally insensitive and irrelevant to the whole issue. Is unity a sign of irrationality? Of course not. Koreans are the ones watching and supporting them in the first place. Most international starcraft viewers didn't watch brood war or really care about the whole thing. The question isn't emotional at all to most non-Korean fans, it's just academic. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
They did not really have a choice tho, but its still sad. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3434 Posts
On October 23 2015 01:50 OtherWorld wrote: Yeah, it's so much better to hit on people without trying to understand why they did something criminal. I'm all for understanding, I really am. In the end, though, their reasons don't change anything. They did so because they earn little? Have tough living conditions? Little future prospects? I'm all for improving on these! Alas,*I* cannot effectively impact those unless I'm part of the value chain , a part of the e-sport business. I *do* hope the business will take the fact that these factors played a major role in their decision to go criminal. However, If they were not happy about being pro-gamers they could just leave and try to get a fucking job. Any job! I can accept that they were too stupid to realize what they were getting into in the first place; everybody makes mistakes, but they have to face the consequences of their poor choices, rather than try to destroy the very thing they were a part of because they are no longer satisfied). Whether or not we stop to think about their reasoning behind this silly decision (which we all should!), the end result is still the same. The damage has been done, had they not been caught they would have most likely continued forever and probably expanded their matchfixing circle, too. They tried to screw the system out of sheer greed and, unfortunately for them, they stepped on a land mine whilst doing so. Boo-hoo. I've been a part of the SC community for well over a decade now and nothing has ever disturbed me as much as the match fixing scandals we've had. It wasn't getting any better, the issue was getting out of hand. It has to be stopped short and only something ridiculously radical will do the job. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51247 Posts
On October 23 2015 01:55 wo1fwood wrote: question, but won't this have far larger ramifications for BW streamers than SC2? Like what? | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On October 23 2015 01:52 TheWinks wrote: Koreans are the ones watching and supporting them in the first place. Most international starcraft viewers didn't watch brood war or really care about the whole thing. The question isn't emotional at all to most non-Korean fans, it's just academic. And because Koreans are emotional, hence they are irrational? Please - the discussions in TL has not been "just academic" by the tone of certain quarters. Some In TL are just as emotional as the Koreans. (in any event, emotion is neither an absolute indicator of irrationality) | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 23 2015 02:01 RKC wrote: And because Koreans are emotional, hence they are irrational? Please - the discussions in TL has not been "just academic" by the tone of certain quarters. Some In TL are just as emotional as the Koreans. No, the international fan responses are academic in the sense that they're applying their ideologies and beliefs to a situation they're pretty much disconnected from. It's more like talking about a theoretical situation. By stating that I'm not making a value judgment about who's right and wrong. A baseball fan from the 80s is probably going to be more invested emotionally talking about Pete Rose than some 20 year old that doesn't really pay attention to baseball. Again, that wouldn't make one side inherently more right or wrong. | ||
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MaCRo.gg
Korea (South)860 Posts
Remarks like: On October 22 2015 18:04 opisska wrote: One thing that continuously irritates me about being a SC2 fan is that everything gets decided in Korea, based on their incomprehensible "culture" (which seems to be the general excuse for any weird behaviour east of Istanbul). Not only lack perspective but insults and generalizes pretty much a third of the world's population. I guess this is the type of un-moderated Eastern bashing I can expect from TL. Is it that hard to express opinions without espousing bigoted statements? EDIT: expect this from younger forums like liquiddota but very disappointing from the long history of quality work from TL. | ||
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
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sumsaR
Sweden1812 Posts
Next stop ISPs. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19382 Posts
On October 23 2015 01:52 TheWinks wrote: Koreans are the ones watching and supporting them in the first place. Most international starcraft viewers didn't watch brood war or really care about the whole thing. The question isn't emotional at all to most non-Korean fans, it's just academic. Woah buddy, explain yourself. Also, how can an international Starcraft viewer not watch Starcraft? @Anyone angry at Kespa, they are doing what it takes to protect their product based on first hand experiences from this happening five years ago. You can't blame them for their demands as they are absolutely understandable. | ||
r_gg
141 Posts
On October 23 2015 02:50 BisuDagger wrote: Woah buddy, explain yourself. Also, how can an international Starcraft viewer not watch Starcraft? i think he's talking about the current Starcraft viewers. some of the posters definitely seemed like they had zero clue what happened 5 years ago. | ||
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Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
On October 23 2015 01:32 True_Spike wrote: I think that's fine. Punishment for match fixing has too be strict, draconian even. Every player has to understand the risk associated with match fixing; their entire skill set *has* to be rendered completely useless, they shouldn't have any possibility of earning anything playing the game anymore once they go corrupt. This is basically the only real consequence of doing it (actual, long jail time is highly unlikely). The punishment has to be so ridiculously stupid and over the top that nobody will dare to dabble in match fixing anymore. Although I agree with the decision and some of what you say, if I recall correctly that high punishments do not correlate with low crime numbers. | ||
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sixfour
England11062 Posts
On October 23 2015 02:50 BisuDagger wrote: @Anyone angry at Kespa, they are doing what it takes to protect their product based on first hand experiences from this happening five years ago. You can't blame them for their demands as they are absolutely understandable. i can see why they wouldn't want to be associated. but what exactly are kespa doing to prevent the match fixing happening in the first place? we've still got the absurdly top-heavy payout structures in individual leagues, leaving anything other than the absolute elite of the elite making next to nothing (to be fair, wcs finals are equally ridiculous). proleague's stagnant - skt's the main sponsor so it's not like kespa has been able to attract any new sponsorship interest given they own one of the teams already. i'd be surprised if they can replace prime next season. gstl's gone. there's little to nothing in terms of non-gsl/ssl tournaments that lower tier players can compete in. say for example soulkey was breaking through now instead of five years ago - what's there for him to play in? sure, kespa can say what they like re: afreeca, but it's a bit two faced to bring down the banhammer re: players that have been stupid enough to get caught, and then ignore the landscape that's causing players to match fix in the first place, and also be happy to brush incredibly likely cases under the rug when they do occur. | ||
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r_gg
141 Posts
On October 23 2015 03:49 sixfour wrote: i can see why they wouldn't want to be associated. but what exactly are kespa doing to prevent the match fixing happening in the first place? we've still got the absurdly top-heavy payout structures in individual leagues, leaving anything other than the absolute elite of the elite making next to nothing (to be fair, wcs finals are equally ridiculous). proleague's stagnant - skt's the main sponsor so it's not like kespa has been able to attract any new sponsorship interest given they own one of the teams already. i'd be surprised if they can replace prime next season. gstl's gone. there's little to nothing in terms of non-gsl/ssl tournaments that lower tier players can compete in. say for example soulkey was breaking through now instead of five years ago - what's there for him to play in? sure, kespa can say what they like re: afreeca, but it's a bit two faced to bring down the banhammer re: players that have been stupid enough to get caught, and then ignore the landscape that's causing players to match fix in the first place, and also be happy to brush incredibly likely cases under the rug when they do occur. The request to ban the streamers is directly in line with the movement to show that esports is clean of matchfixing and doesn't tolerate it at all. The BW matchfixing was directly responsible for destroying the reputation of the esports industry to the ground and driving away sponsors that didn't want to be associated with tainted image of the scene. It's very difficult to convince your sponsors that the scene is now clean of matchfixing if one of the main tournament organizers is also supporting a culprit streaming happily side-by-side to the very tournament he matchfixed in. The distinction between streaming and competitive gaming is very small for an outsider. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7012 Posts
On October 23 2015 04:04 r_gg wrote: The request to ban the streamers is directly in line with the movement to show that esports is clean of matchfixing and doesn't tolerate it at all. The BW matchfixing was directly responsible for destroying the reputation of the esports industry to the ground and driving away sponsors that didn't want to be associated with tainted image of the scene. It's very difficult to convince your sponsors that the scene is now clean of matchfixing if one of the main tournament organizers is also supporting a culprit streaming happily side-by-side to the very tournament he matchfixed in. The distinction between streaming and competitive gaming is very small for an outsider. do u still believe this crap ? ... kespa vs blizzard killed bw | ||
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