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Based on the official Police investigation, only the above players have been implicated in matchfixing. There is no reason to further accuse other players and teams until we get more information. Incessant blind accusations will not be tolerated. Please read the thread and the updates before posting. As of page 54 we will be moderating against match fixing accusations for players who were not caught in this incident, including those using voided Pinnacle bets as evidence. |
On October 20 2015 08:44 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 02:52 BisuDagger wrote:
Does anyone think this kind of thing is occurring in League of Legends Korean Scene too and just hasn't been caught yet? I find it far less likely simply because LoL Players are getting decent salaries paid from Riot.
Riot only pays for the LCS salaries.
On October 20 2015 21:46 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Korea needs to loosen up its stance on gambling.
The reason a criminal market exist is the demand for things outside of the law.
Gambling is an instinctual urge that has been present in almost every culture.
Controlled gambling environment would bring in taxes as well as decrease strength of illegal gambling market.
Only allow 5% of salary as gambling allowance.
South Korean government has been ineffective at stopping illegal gambling, at some point regulation is needed more than containment.
At a certain point, just like the USA has done with Marijuana, the income from taxation will be too tempting for the government to pass by. Hopefully they will follow the American model of heavy taxation and regulation.
That being said, still a big fan of Yoda I believe that his circumstances drove him down this path.
During his IM days when mvp said Yoda was the best terran on IM you could see Yoda improving even during games.
If you actually get to know and talk to incarcerated people many were driven down that dark road by desperation, not desire or selfishness.
It has nothing to do with actual gambling. We're not debating the ethics of gambling. We're discussing matchfixing which is when gambling turns evil.
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I really wonder how long this has been going on for. In most cases when people get caught in these situations it had been going on for a lot longer, just they only have evidence for those matches. I wonder if thats why other players left Prime, like creator n what not. If I recall he didnt post a reason for leaving.
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On October 20 2015 22:38 brickrd wrote:
i'm against matchfixing, but honestly the despair from this is getting kind of funny
realistically speaking this kind of scandal will inevitably happen in any sport that's gambled upon, it even happens in the highest leagues of sport sometimes. condemn it, ban people, but at some point you kind of have to let it go and focus on the positive parts of liking and watching the game
obviously as an organization kespa has to take it seriously, but fans acting like their lives are over because bad people did bad things again, yeesh. let's just press on to lotv. being vindictive about stuff that's over and done with will just prolong the stain on the scene
Your nonchalance makes me wonder if you were around during the BW/ Savior/ matchfixing era. It really was a tragedy. And we know what to expect (even if these SC2 players aren't as legendary as Savior was). It compromises the competitive scene, much like cheating in any sport does. It breaks the purity and sanctity of these tournaments, which is what tens of thousands of us love to watch every week. When these things occur, it makes you hesitate- even for a second- when an underdog wins a series (let alone a tournament), and that just plain sucks. Instead of giving credit and applause to players who are successful dark horses, we compromise that optimism with the cynicism that comes from the fact that some progamers (and team managers) cheat. It's damn depressing, and as dramatic as this sounds, I don't think it's overly dramatic for those of us who love watching this game.
And this doesn't even go into the feelings of the people who like to bet on games and tournaments to try to make money.
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So this is how Prime survived
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On October 21 2015 00:45 Bill Murray wrote:
So this is how Prime survived
We don't know. Maybe, maybe not.
Love your movies by the way.
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On October 20 2015 23:52 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 08:44 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On October 20 2015 02:52 BisuDagger wrote:
Does anyone think this kind of thing is occurring in League of Legends Korean Scene too and just hasn't been caught yet? I find it far less likely simply because LoL Players are getting decent salaries paid from Riot. Riot only pays for the LCS salaries. Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 21:46 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Korea needs to loosen up its stance on gambling.
The reason a criminal market exist is the demand for things outside of the law.
Gambling is an instinctual urge that has been present in almost every culture.
Controlled gambling environment would bring in taxes as well as decrease strength of illegal gambling market.
Only allow 5% of salary as gambling allowance.
South Korean government has been ineffective at stopping illegal gambling, at some point regulation is needed more than containment.
At a certain point, just like the USA has done with Marijuana, the income from taxation will be too tempting for the government to pass by. Hopefully they will follow the American model of heavy taxation and regulation.
That being said, still a big fan of Yoda I believe that his circumstances drove him down this path.
During his IM days when mvp said Yoda was the best terran on IM you could see Yoda improving even during games.
If you actually get to know and talk to incarcerated people many were driven down that dark road by desperation, not desire or selfishness. It has nothing to do with actual gambling. We're not debating the ethics of gambling. We're discussing matchfixing which is when gambling turns evil.
Yes and if it were legal and regulated, it would be easier to deal with it "turning evil".
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On October 20 2015 23:40 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 15:10 Nuclease wrote:
While it's not, say, SBENU being implicated in these matches, this is enough to completely fuck over my faith that any game I see in SC2 programing is at all legitimate.
If players like YoDa and BboongBboong, and a famous coach like Gerrard, are matchfixing in Code S? Fuck this. I'm gonna go watch Heroes of the Storm and hope this same bullshit doesn't occur. Heh something like this happened in CSGO earlier in the year that involved not only match fixing but cheating as well. Also FYI it'll probably happen in Heroes as well, probably any semi big/competitive game where money can be made. It sucks, but you are naive if you think it won't happen there. I can bet money it's happened in League and shit as well (don't watch/play and don't read about it but I would be shocked if it hasn't happened.)
CSGO has a long hushed up tradition of cheating. Was reading a commentary about how tournaments are run and it's a joke. Most allow players to install whatever custom software they want before games. It's supposed to be stuff like drivers and preselected game settings, but come on, can you imagine how easy it is to cheat in that environment?
On October 20 2015 17:08 BeStFAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 16:57 boon2537 wrote:
At least they got more than $322 lol
Seriously though, some progamers there must be desperate for money... i do not think it is just money. to be honest for all the time playing practicing game and not getting education, most progamer could have made more money with a part time job. of course, all progamer want success, because they need justification for wasting youth not getting an education, not having time for normal social and romance. enough money, enough fans, enough satisfaction to ease. i think some progamer have sunk cost fallacy. they realize that they are no longer teenager, but they are quickly moving through 20 years, playing game playing game, while their high school dongmoon are completing studies, working for company, getting close to marriage, finished military. so they continue and hope that they can find justification, while ignoring reality. the most successful group of progamer, outside of top progamer, are progamers who retire early.
I kind of agree, it's a pretty sorry state being a failed pro-gamer who dropped out of high school, skipped college and postponed military service. If you didn't get the 'glory' then you basically hit reset on starting your adult life close to 30.
The sunk cost fallacy and desperation must be what drives a lot of these guys to hold on to the dream. That and pressure from the coach, Korea is a very hierarchical society and once you enter the team house you're putting yourself under the coach which is why so much scorn in the media is landing onto Gerrald for not only failing to protect his players, but for leading them into this stuff.
Course you could also apply your commentary to Gerrald, he's not *that* much older than the players (younger than Nestea, about the same age as a bunch of foreign BW players who are stuck around through WoL too)). Instead of having a 'real job' he went into debt for a struggling team, clinging on to this random dream to make money off it (remember the Prime clothing line?). He should have just folded the team and moved on, some of the things he did were clearly not worth it (lying about player salaries, stealing a computer from Byun, and obviously this).
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On October 21 2015 02:01 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 23:40 blade55555 wrote:On October 20 2015 15:10 Nuclease wrote:
While it's not, say, SBENU being implicated in these matches, this is enough to completely fuck over my faith that any game I see in SC2 programing is at all legitimate.
If players like YoDa and BboongBboong, and a famous coach like Gerrard, are matchfixing in Code S? Fuck this. I'm gonna go watch Heroes of the Storm and hope this same bullshit doesn't occur. Heh something like this happened in CSGO earlier in the year that involved not only match fixing but cheating as well. Also FYI it'll probably happen in Heroes as well, probably any semi big/competitive game where money can be made. It sucks, but you are naive if you think it won't happen there. I can bet money it's happened in League and shit as well (don't watch/play and don't read about it but I would be shocked if it hasn't happened.) CSGO has a long hushed up tradition of cheating. Was reading a commentary about how tournaments are run and it's a joke. Most allow players to install whatever custom software they want before games. It's supposed to be stuff like drivers and preselected game settings, but come on, can you imagine how easy it is to cheat in that environment? + Show Spoiler +On October 20 2015 17:08 BeStFAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 16:57 boon2537 wrote:
At least they got more than $322 lol
Seriously though, some progamers there must be desperate for money... i do not think it is just money. to be honest for all the time playing practicing game and not getting education, most progamer could have made more money with a part time job. of course, all progamer want success, because they need justification for wasting youth not getting an education, not having time for normal social and romance. enough money, enough fans, enough satisfaction to ease. i think some progamer have sunk cost fallacy. they realize that they are no longer teenager, but they are quickly moving through 20 years, playing game playing game, while their high school dongmoon are completing studies, working for company, getting close to marriage, finished military. so they continue and hope that they can find justification, while ignoring reality. the most successful group of progamer, outside of top progamer, are progamers who retire early. I kind of agree, it's a pretty sorry state being a failed pro-gamer who dropped out of high school, skipped college and postponed military service. If you didn't get the 'glory' then you basically hit reset on starting your adult life close to 30. The sunk cost fallacy and desperation must be what drives a lot of these guys to hold on to the dream. That and pressure from the coach, Korea is a very hierarchical society and once you enter the team house you're putting yourself under the coach which is why so much scorn in the media is landing onto Gerrald for not only failing to protect his players, but for leading them into this stuff. Course you could also apply your commentary to Gerrald, he's not *that* much older than the players (younger than Nestea, about the same age as a bunch of foreign BW players who are stuck around through WoL too)). Instead of having a 'real job' he went into debt for a struggling team, clinging on to this random dream to make money off it (remember the Prime clothing line?). He should have just folded the team and moved on, some of the things he did were clearly not worth it (lying about player salaries, stealing a computer from Byun, and obviously this).
Have you even read ESL statements the last year or so
if you're reading "commentary" on CS tournaments, you will see that most of the hackusations are of the form "player x is onliner, i arent think he deosnt perform on lan" and "OMG flusha had modded his mouse so he could install hax without internet access : o"
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I'll admit I don't follow the scene much, and most of what I did read was after the Valve banwave last year. A bunch of major gaming sites were talking about it and how tournaments were vulnerable to cheating as well. Sorry for being vague it was a long time ago and I didn't follow the stories to conclusion so I don't know how tournaments responded.
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On October 21 2015 02:01 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 23:40 blade55555 wrote:On October 20 2015 15:10 Nuclease wrote:
While it's not, say, SBENU being implicated in these matches, this is enough to completely fuck over my faith that any game I see in SC2 programing is at all legitimate.
If players like YoDa and BboongBboong, and a famous coach like Gerrard, are matchfixing in Code S? Fuck this. I'm gonna go watch Heroes of the Storm and hope this same bullshit doesn't occur. Heh something like this happened in CSGO earlier in the year that involved not only match fixing but cheating as well. Also FYI it'll probably happen in Heroes as well, probably any semi big/competitive game where money can be made. It sucks, but you are naive if you think it won't happen there. I can bet money it's happened in League and shit as well (don't watch/play and don't read about it but I would be shocked if it hasn't happened.) CSGO has a long hushed up tradition of cheating. Was reading a commentary about how tournaments are run and it's a joke. Most allow players to install whatever custom software they want before games. It's supposed to be stuff like drivers and preselected game settings, but come on, can you imagine how easy it is to cheat in that environment? Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 17:08 BeStFAN wrote:On October 20 2015 16:57 boon2537 wrote:
At least they got more than $322 lol
Seriously though, some progamers there must be desperate for money... i do not think it is just money. to be honest for all the time playing practicing game and not getting education, most progamer could have made more money with a part time job. of course, all progamer want success, because they need justification for wasting youth not getting an education, not having time for normal social and romance. enough money, enough fans, enough satisfaction to ease. i think some progamer have sunk cost fallacy. they realize that they are no longer teenager, but they are quickly moving through 20 years, playing game playing game, while their high school dongmoon are completing studies, working for company, getting close to marriage, finished military. so they continue and hope that they can find justification, while ignoring reality. the most successful group of progamer, outside of top progamer, are progamers who retire early. I kind of agree, it's a pretty sorry state being a failed pro-gamer who dropped out of high school, skipped college and postponed military service. If you didn't get the 'glory' then you basically hit reset on starting your adult life close to 30. The sunk cost fallacy and desperation must be what drives a lot of these guys to hold on to the dream. That and pressure from the coach, Korea is a very hierarchical society and once you enter the team house you're putting yourself under the coach which is why so much scorn in the media is landing onto Gerrald for not only failing to protect his players, but for leading them into this stuff. Course you could also apply your commentary to Gerrald, he's not *that* much older than the players (younger than Nestea, about the same age as a bunch of foreign BW players who are stuck around through WoL too)). Instead of having a 'real job' he went into debt for a struggling team, clinging on to this random dream to make money off it (remember the Prime clothing line?). He should have just folded the team and moved on, some of the things he did were clearly not worth it (lying about player salaries, stealing a computer from Byun, and obviously this).
You have no idea what you're talking about.
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Korea (South)5014 Posts
Never liked either of these 3, i guess karma was tilting.
Screw those 3 guys, esport is not a place we want to turn into the weaknesses of traditional sports.
Pay the fine and get banned for life from any esport association.
Never wantin to hear about this again.
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For what its worth even though I was one of the first people to make accusations of match fixing in SPL, I don't think a life-ruining punishment is in order for the guilty players - I think a lifetime ban from esports and a fine of any money they received for fixing would be fine/proportional to the crime. The players should be able to make a life outside of esports after this is all done, they have to live with the shame of knowing what they did and that should be more than enough. The brokers and Gerrard though should probably face more severe consequences.
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On July 09 2015 20:56 kidleaderr wrote:
yoda throwing games so obvious.
so you know theres a medivac flying around with hellions so what do you do? rathervthen defending send my entire army to their base leaving my natural completely empty
no one can be this bad lmao
yoda didn't even try to hide that he was throwing games. some of the stuff he did made zero sense especially at the pro level.
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Seed has the right idea for not matchfixing
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Like Zergs...
(well it's not entirely the same but Hive mind)
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 21 2015 16:50 FFW_Rude wrote:Like Zergs...
Wrong! Zergs don't have any overmind anymore! But if you can step in as an overmind you can control them. Which is what happened to B4 
Only InCa and his followers can match fix. Because Dark Templars are separated from Khala 
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On October 21 2015 11:15 Swoopae wrote:
For what its worth even though I was one of the first people to make accusations of match fixing in SPL, I don't think a life-ruining punishment is in order for the guilty players - I think a lifetime ban from esports and a fine of any money they received for fixing would be fine/proportional to the crime. The players should be able to make a life outside of esports after this is all done, they have to live with the shame of knowing what they did and that should be more than enough. The brokers and Gerrard though should probably face more severe consequences.
In most countries that isn't USA, having a criminal record doesn't mean that your life is ruined. They'll find things to do outside of esports after they have faced whatever consequences they're given.
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On October 21 2015 20:29 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 11:15 Swoopae wrote:
For what its worth even though I was one of the first people to make accusations of match fixing in SPL, I don't think a life-ruining punishment is in order for the guilty players - I think a lifetime ban from esports and a fine of any money they received for fixing would be fine/proportional to the crime. The players should be able to make a life outside of esports after this is all done, they have to live with the shame of knowing what they did and that should be more than enough. The brokers and Gerrard though should probably face more severe consequences. In most countries that isn't USA, having a criminal record doesn't mean that your life is ruined. They'll find things to do outside of esports after they have faced whatever consequences they're given.
Yoda will mostlikely just join the military asap (...he gets out of jail?). From there on it depends how much money they have to redo their education they missed during starcraft and find some sort of job. But still a fucked up end for a episode of someones life.
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EPT
