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Does anyone have post-swarmhost stats on ZvP?

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PostNationalism
Profile Blog Joined April 2015
35 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 13:21:14
April 29 2015 13:18 GMT
#1
Because it is looking impossible.. today 2 protoss 2 zerg in group.. forcefields and blink stalkers is all you need to beat zerg..

several games i watched the zerg outplayed protoss and still lost because roach hydra sucks so so bad. hell ragnarak was ahead SO MUCH but because his only viable option is a broodlord rush.. GG (that said he could have microd better.. but.. cmon)

anyway not trying to make this a total balance whine, im actually interested in the numbers, how badly are zerg struggling lately?? (nor not at all?)
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 13:25:07
April 29 2015 13:23 GMT
#2
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
91matt
Profile Joined March 2013
United Kingdom147 Posts
April 29 2015 13:27 GMT
#3
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.


roach hydra doesn't kill blink stalker sentry easily, once they reach a critical mass roach hydra does virtually nothing to it
PostNationalism
Profile Blog Joined April 2015
35 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 13:29:50
April 29 2015 13:29 GMT
#4
On April 29 2015 22:27 Matt` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.


roach hydra doesn't kill blink stalker sentry easily, once they reach a critical mass roach hydra does virtually nothing to it


yea the games today really showed how pathetic roach hydra is vs well controlled blink stalker/sentry .. and as the other guy said, the lategame must be even worse than the midgame..

anyway the statistics would be more telling than our anecdata
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 13:32:27
April 29 2015 13:31 GMT
#5
On April 29 2015 22:27 Matt` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.


roach hydra doesn't kill blink stalker sentry easily, once they reach a critical mass roach hydra does virtually nothing to it

First, I said Roach ling/Hydra ling. Second, Hydras destroy stalkers. Stalkers are a low dps crap unit. You want zealots and colossus really vs hydra, not stalkers. Go ahead and link pro games if you want.

It comes down to the zerg getting a good economy vs whatever 2 base timing is coming. I haven''t heard the words "imba" and "blink stalkers" in the same sentence since Hongun http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HongUn . lol
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
April 29 2015 13:32 GMT
#6
http://aligulac.com/periods/135/
TL+ Member
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
April 29 2015 13:45 GMT
#7
On April 29 2015 22:31 TRaFFiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:27 Matt` wrote:
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.


roach hydra doesn't kill blink stalker sentry easily, once they reach a critical mass roach hydra does virtually nothing to it

First, I said Roach ling/Hydra ling. Second, Hydras destroy stalkers. Stalkers are a low dps crap unit. You want zealots and colossus really vs hydra, not stalkers. Go ahead and link pro games if you want.

It comes down to the zerg getting a good economy vs whatever 2 base timing is coming. I haven''t heard the words "imba" and "blink stalkers" in the same sentence since Hongun http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HongUn . lol



well, you kinda wrote roach ling/roach hydra though

anyway, blink stalker sentry is a very viable composition that opens up massive timings on 3 base and transitions very well into templar tech. with good control roach hydra can't touch a blink stalker sentry army (while heads-on it obviously crushes it, but that's what FFs are all about).
without the fear of SH, you can delay colossus tech for a very long time because you want the inevitable Vipers to be as useless as possible (and abducts on your first 1 or 2 colossi can lose you any game)
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
91matt
Profile Joined March 2013
United Kingdom147 Posts
April 29 2015 13:46 GMT
#8
On April 29 2015 22:31 TRaFFiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:27 Matt` wrote:
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.


roach hydra doesn't kill blink stalker sentry easily, once they reach a critical mass roach hydra does virtually nothing to it

First, I said Roach ling/Hydra ling. Second, Hydras destroy stalkers. Stalkers are a low dps crap unit. You want zealots and colossus really vs hydra, not stalkers. Go ahead and link pro games if you want.

It comes down to the zerg getting a good economy vs whatever 2 base timing is coming. I haven''t heard the words "imba" and "blink stalkers" in the same sentence since Hongun http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HongUn . lol


roach hydra ling/roach hydra it doesnt matter, once there is a critical mass you will not kill them.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 13:54:11
April 29 2015 13:47 GMT
#9
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.

Uh...no. Blink stalkers are really strong, especially with the Protosses like Zest which are really good at using blink stakers. They can practically go up to ling hydra Zergs and kill them without using sentries. Blink Stalkers combined with sentries have such massive survivability. Twice the effective HP of Hydras, with the survivability and versatility of blink and quick recharging haf of HP known as shields means that it can be very difficult to punish or kill blink stalkers till you got a way ameriolate them with tunnelling roaches or infestors, since you now can't use swarmhosts to help defend against them.

Also lol at this:
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.

On April 29 2015 22:31 TRaFFiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:27 Matt` wrote:
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.


roach hydra doesn't kill blink stalker sentry easily, once they reach a critical mass roach hydra does virtually nothing to it

First, I said Roach ling/Hydra ling. Second, Hydras destroy stalkers. Stalkers are a low dps crap unit. You want zealots and colossus really vs hydra, not stalkers. Go ahead and link pro games if you want.

It comes down to the zerg getting a good economy vs whatever 2 base timing is coming. I haven''t heard the words "imba" and "blink stalkers" in the same sentence since Hongun http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HongUn . lol

Bare faced lying lol.


Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28491 Posts
April 29 2015 13:49 GMT
#10
It's the FF's that makes it problematic, thankfully they'll get ravaged in LotV
I Protoss winner, could it be?
SC2Towelie
Profile Joined July 2014
United States561 Posts
April 29 2015 13:50 GMT
#11
Protoss can open blink stalker/sentry every game and take a safe third then add immortals and go straight to HT and zerg has no way to punish them. Once they max out or even get close to max, there's nothing to fight this army cost efficiently except broodlords, in which case protoss just laughs and wins a basetrade with their army of blink stalkers. They don't even need colossi anymore, what's the point? Blink stalker/immo/sentry + storm absolutely shits on roach/hydra and if you add vipers (which you shouldn't because there's no colossi, but blinding cloud can still be okay) then they already have feedback available. Ultras get rekt because immortals.... mutas? storm/blink stalker.... zerg is really struggling right now.
Don't forget to bring a towel! (Towelie.635)
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
April 29 2015 13:54 GMT
#12
I didn't watch PL but feel free to link vods. I watch sc2 24/7 and haven't seen this issue. When the Protoss wins with a stalker\sentry timing it's usually because the Zerg's early game didn't go well or he would have the necessary units to defend.
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
April 29 2015 14:16 GMT
#13
On April 29 2015 22:54 TRaFFiC wrote:
I didn't watch PL but feel free to link vods. I watch sc2 24/7 and haven't seen this issue. When the Protoss wins with a stalker\sentry timing it's usually because the Zerg's early game didn't go well or he would have the necessary units to defend.


well, it's not massively broken or anything but an already strong composition basically got a buff by removing the one way (ie sh switch) to catch the bs/sentry player totally off guard.
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
April 29 2015 14:20 GMT
#14
The fact that people are only now complaining like this about blink stalker/sentry despite that being an important part of the meta quite a while before the swarm host patch baffles me. Rather, complain about late game or something.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 14:22:54
April 29 2015 14:21 GMT
#15
On April 29 2015 22:31 TRaFFiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:27 Matt` wrote:
On April 29 2015 22:23 TRaFFiC wrote:
The resources to find them are out there for everyone's use. Liquidpedia and aligulac are good places to start I guess.

Actually, blink stalker/sentry is a great way for protoss to lose. Roach ling/Roach Hydra takes down blink stalker pretty easily. It's when the Protoss sits back and gets that huge death ball (Colossus/void ray or other) that it becomes much harder to win in a long game without SH.

My guess is it will take some more time for the win rates to dip since P and T players have yet to fully adapt to the no sh zergs. I mean there are still tons of Terrans playing bio.


roach hydra doesn't kill blink stalker sentry easily, once they reach a critical mass roach hydra does virtually nothing to it

First, I said Roach ling/Hydra ling. Second, Hydras destroy stalkers. Stalkers are a low dps crap unit. You want zealots and colossus really vs hydra, not stalkers. Go ahead and link pro games if you want.

It comes down to the zerg getting a good economy vs whatever 2 base timing is coming. I haven''t heard the words "imba" and "blink stalkers" in the same sentence since Hongun http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HongUn . lol

hydra/ling can't do anything vs blink stalkers if Protoss' control is decent. If you want actual vods, watch Life vs herO on Catallena, Life vs Rain on Catallena (from the top of my head) or any other high level ZvP (and I mean high level, GSL ro16 high) where the Zerg tries a hydra/ling attack vs blink stalkers. Life's semifinal and final of the last GSL are a good example of how blink stalker based armies can trade vs roach hydra.

As for the games of today, I didn't catch the ZvPs, but Parting has the best control in the world and him beating anything with blink stalkers shouldn't surprise anyone really...
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
April 29 2015 14:28 GMT
#16
you should also take note that short term statistics do not necessarily reflect long term statistics, of course zvp will be slightly more p favored now zergs are having to adapt in styles, and it has to be seen if they can come back from this shock long term before you draw any balance conclusions.
"Not you."
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 14:32:01
April 29 2015 14:29 GMT
#17
On April 29 2015 22:32 Paljas wrote:
http://aligulac.com/periods/135/

How is it possible that Protoss has 42% vs terran and 47% vs Zerg, yet it is the "leading race by 3%"?

By the way, no one used Swarmhosts to counter Mass blink stalkers.
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
April 29 2015 14:31 GMT
#18
Da Muuuutas. Then you die to a good scout from Protoss and an all-in. :D
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
April 29 2015 14:31 GMT
#19
Dafuq: Most often when the player tried to Swarm Host against Blink Stalker, their host count was so low, that they got killed before their swarm hosts had an impact.

Usually you see Roach Ling or Hydra Ling kill the Sentry-BS-Ball or lose the game. That was the fact before the SW-Patch and Swarm Hosts didnt help in that situation, because a low SH count did not help at all, if the protoss attacked at the right timing. The only thing that changed is the 3 base Sentry-Coloss Turtle Style and all other defensive styles. When BS-Sentry is used offensive of 2 bases, you still have to kill it with roach ling or hydra ling, just like 4 weeks ago. Swarm Hosts come to late or to little for that.

When you say protoss controll should be decent, just use decent zerg control.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
April 29 2015 14:33 GMT
#20
Dude, the manliest race doesn't complain. Zergs will adapt and Zergs will prevail.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
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