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On April 22 2015 11:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 11:02 Shadowfyre wrote:
I would like to point out to people who say that Destiny/other streamers don't have a "real job". They do. A valid job at that, as well as the fact that Destiny has stated that he has held several job doing physical labor and the like and has said that streaming professionally is just about as hard as those jobs, if not harder. In my experience, those who use the "real job" argument do so out of jealousy and little more than that. Does it pay money? Then its a real job, the money is just as real as everyone elses.
Well played, sir. Jealousy is a cruel mistress and there will always be those that can not fathom making money doing something they love. I think we're getting to that point though where online entertainers are surpassing television. Not only is the potential fan-base so much more widespread but it is cheaper to produce. I imagine Destiny's overhead is tiny.
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I had been streaming on and off for sometime probably in the range of 75-150 viewers average, with peaks of maybe 250.(no sub button or anything) As joke / social experiment about 18months ago I had my girlfriend (thicker girl, cute face, F-cups, bit of cleavage but nothing to bad just causal everyday wear) chat up the webcam while I was playing games (She was on her computers just facebooking or whatever and chatting with the viewers, but it was assumed she was playing the games. She was asked to neither confirm or deny being the player for the sake of the test) within an hour she had nearly 1k viewers and was getting begged to throw up a donation link, amazon wishlist or anything so they could just throw money at her. By 2hours she peaked at around 1.6k viewers, had her own hate group as well as white knights going at it in chat. Somehow people had managed to get her facebook info and she got a dozen or so friend requests and even a few text messages from one guy which really creeped her out so we ended it.
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On April 23 2015 03:02 NotSorry wrote:
I had been streaming on and off for sometime probably in the range of 75-150 viewers average, with peaks of maybe 250.(no sub button or anything) As joke / social experiment about 18months ago I had my girlfriend (thicker girl, cute face, F-cups, bit of cleavage but nothing to bad just causal everyday wear) chat up the webcam while I was playing games (She was on her computers just facebooking or whatever and chatting with the viewers, but it was assumed she was playing the games. She was asked to neither confirm or deny being the player for the sake of the test) within an hour she had nearly 1k viewers and was getting begged to throw up a donation link, amazon wishlist or anything so they could just throw money at her. By 2hours she peaked at around 1.6k viewers, had her own hate group as well as white knights going at it in chat. Somehow people had managed to get her facebook info and she got a dozen or so friend requests and even a few text messages from one guy which really creeped her out so we ended it.
That amazes me even while I'm somehow not so surprised.
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Yeah girls getting donations don't surprise me. It's just a lower level form of webcam girls. I don't know why guys get donations though. I don't buy the other guy's explanation of just wanting to help or something.
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Well played, sir. Jealousy is a cruel mistress and there will always be those that can not fathom making money doing something they love. I think we're getting to that point though where online entertainers are surpassing television. Not only is the potential fan-base so much more widespread but it is cheaper to produce. I imagine Destiny's overhead is tiny.
It's catering to a niche that TV companies cannot. Gaming is the most popular entertainment industry in the world and yet TV and old media dont cater to it one little bit. So up sprung the homegrown content and sites like Twitch and Youtube helped spread it worldwide. There's no way for old media to catch up now, the obvious desire for this longform content has been there for ages and is now being fulfilled by independent content creators. Low budget, low production value, but that doesnt matter to the people who watch.
Because ad revenue is pretty bad on twitch. Between the ads just plain not paying very much and rampant ad block streamers can't really be supported by ads alone. Which is why twitch then introduced subscription where you can agree to pay the streamer $5/mo (or whatever) and twitch takes half of that as well. That way the streamer can have a more guaranteed income source instead of very unreliable ad income.
Yup. Adblocking and poor first quarter CPM has made running ads almost pointless. There are streams where I just dont even bother, because I know its not worth it. Subs on the other hand, that's constant income if you can keep em and provide a good service. Subs make our Twitch channel 20x more revenue than ads do on a month to month basis.
Yeah girls getting donations don't surprise me. It's just a lower level form of webcam girls. I don't know why guys get donations though. I don't buy the other guy's explanation of just wanting to help or something.
Why, what other logical explanation can there be? They donate because they like the content, its not exactly a hard concept to fathom
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On April 23 2015 03:02 NotSorry wrote:
I had been streaming on and off for sometime probably in the range of 75-150 viewers average, with peaks of maybe 250.(no sub button or anything) As joke / social experiment about 18months ago I had my girlfriend (thicker girl, cute face, F-cups, bit of cleavage but nothing to bad just causal everyday wear) chat up the webcam while I was playing games (She was on her computers just facebooking or whatever and chatting with the viewers, but it was assumed she was playing the games. She was asked to neither confirm or deny being the player for the sake of the test) within an hour she had nearly 1k viewers and was getting begged to throw up a donation link, amazon wishlist or anything so they could just throw money at her. By 2hours she peaked at around 1.6k viewers, had her own hate group as well as white knights going at it in chat. Somehow people had managed to get her facebook info and she got a dozen or so friend requests and even a few text messages from one guy which really creeped her out so we ended it.
this is actually hilarious
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I hate the 'not a real job' attitude. By the definition used to justify this then no actor, singer or fighter has a real job. Why do you have to explain to these people that providing entertainment is just as much a real job as someone like me pushing buttons to develop software?
Good luck to these people, I enjoy watching Naniwa, Nathanias, Total Biscuit (and sometimes even Avilo to watch him rage).
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I have no doubt that those who are really successful streamers work way harder than I do in my 9-5 job - although they probably have more fun most days too. I really could never do it as so many of the people (at least that I have followed over the years) never seem to take a vacation or stop producing content for more than a weekend - which makes sense. If you need subscribers and constant revenue, you can't really handle taking a break for two weeks to go off on a vacation for fear that you will lose so much of your base when you return. That is something I could never give up. The ones who work hard and are really successful, whether or not I like their content, I have to respect because of the sheer number of hours they have to put in to keep themselves relevant and top-of-mind. If I left my job for a month of vacation and came back, I'd have some rebuilding to do to regain my level of influence, but I imagine that if most streamers stopped for a month they would be dead.
It might look really fun, but a job it most certainly is. And a job I could never do (and never really want to do). Just because it looks fun doesn't mean it isn't a job.
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@'not real job' Streaming seems to be a little like a professional sports (soccer, football, tennis etc.) It might pay good (or even extremly good), but where do you go after it's done (which seems to be before 30 for most players/streamers). A lot of people can probably become "media"-personalities but what happens to players/streamers like dragon, protech, whitera etc.
From one perspective I do envy their lifestyle but from another I feel it is a ride with no light at the end of the tunnel.
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AdBlock is morally reprehensible.
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I dunno I just dunno. Paying for something free blows my mind. But it's the model that the streaming system is based on so it works I guess. It's just... lol
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On April 23 2015 03:51 BjoernK wrote:
@'not real job' Streaming seems to be a little like a professional sports (soccer, football, tennis etc.) It might pay good (or even extremly good), but where do you go after it's done (which seems to be before 30 for most players/streamers). A lot of people can probably become "media"-personalities but what happens to players/streamers like dragon, protech, whitera etc.
From one perspective I do envy their lifestyle but from another I feel it is a ride with no light at the end of the tunnel.
A lot of the more successful players have studied before, during or after their careers, life isn't over after 30.
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On April 23 2015 03:55 Doodsmack wrote:
AdBlock is morally reprehensible.
"Morally"? Give me a break. If anything the internet is the most democratic system available. Many people have voted and they have agreed they'd rather not watch ads even if that means the person providing the content gets no money. It is a reality. Complaining will do nothing. That is why any streamer these days (as opposed to say when WoL beta first started) has a donation link and a sub link. Because that is how the internet has determined that is how they want to support the streamer.
DDOS'ing a streamer? Morally reprehensible. Doxxing a personality or someone they have on stream? Morally reprehensible. AdBlock? One of these isn't like the other.
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On April 23 2015 03:58 Deathstar wrote:
I dunno I just dunno. Paying for something free blows my mind. But it's the model that the streaming system is based on so it works I guess. It's just... lol
So you are blown away when someone give money to a street performer that plays music, dance or whatever?
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On April 23 2015 03:58 Tenks wrote:"Morally"? Give me a break. If anything the internet is the most democratic system available. Many people have voted and they have agreed they'd rather not watch ads even if that means the person providing the content gets no money. It is a reality. Complaining will do nothing. That is why any streamer these days (as opposed to say when WoL beta first started) has a donation link and a sub link. Because that is how the internet has determined that is how they want to support the streamer. DDOS'ing a streamer? Morally reprehensible. Doxxing a personality or someone they have on stream? Morally reprehensible. AdBlock? One of these isn't like the other.
From what I have seen the majority of people don't mind watching fair amount of ads to watch a free video, it's all the people/sites that abuse it that ruin it for everyone else. You can only have so many 30 minute ads, ads that play sounds when you open a website or take up half the fucking screen before you get so tired off it you just block everything. Not to mention all the preroll ads that makes browsing videos a pain in the ass.
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Yes, they put hard work into it. No it didn't happen overnight. However, nothing is ever purely a product of your hard work. That's a really selfish and naive way to look at the world. It's a combination of hard work, luck, circumstances, etc.
"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
- Thomas Jefferson
People underestimate the work that some streamers put on their channels, there are many that can make a living by just playing but it's not the majority, and even if it were, when people start with close minded statements like "it's not a real job" it's pretty clear that jealousy has taken its toll.
Gaming is the number 1 entertainment industry right now and some are just "taking advantage" from big entertainment corporations who don't realize this and act on it, so good for them, the result is that we've begun to see more professional streams coming from just a guy who's not just playing but looking forward into building a sustainable business model for themselves, which is the very essence of entreprenurial spirit that has created and improved industries for many years.
So let's just end this jealousy and appreciate the work that's been done by streamers, donate, subscribe or just support if you feel like it and don't be salty if they win more money than other people in different industries.
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On April 23 2015 03:58 gruff wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 03:51 BjoernK wrote:
@'not real job' Streaming seems to be a little like a professional sports (soccer, football, tennis etc.) It might pay good (or even extremly good), but where do you go after it's done (which seems to be before 30 for most players/streamers). A lot of people can probably become "media"-personalities but what happens to players/streamers like dragon, protech, whitera etc.
From one perspective I do envy their lifestyle but from another I feel it is a ride with no light at the end of the tunnel. A lot of the more successful players have studied before, during or after their careers, life isn't over after 30.
Yes there are great examples of players who are doing it "right". Stephano, Polt etc. come to mind. But I believe there is also a large amount of players whose life would probably play out in a better way if they chose a "normal" life. Am I wrong about a lot of Korean players not even having a high school diploma (really not sure)?
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On April 23 2015 03:58 Deathstar wrote:
I dunno I just dunno. Paying for something free blows my mind. But it's the model that the streaming system is based on so it works I guess. It's just... lol
most streamers can't afford to stream full time without being paid. if they dont get paid, the content stops being produced. so the product isn't free in that sense. it's more like a pay-what-you-want model and the rich and generous are making the product free for everyone else. it's like a shop being based on the honor system, but in addition to that there are no asking prices. you take what you want and leave what you want. if you consider that free, then you dont really understand what's going on. if everyone considers it free, it ceases to exist, so it must not really be free
and a ton of donations that the popular streamers get are because there's a huge pop-up on stream announcing their donation and displaying a message they can attach to their donation. so they're not paying for the stream in general -- they're paying for the particular service of being a part of a stream with that announcement and their message
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I bet it's an interesting process filing taxes as a professional streamer. I assume twitch sends all of the necessary documents but it seems like taking deductions would be more difficult, but i'm not tax accountant haha. Just curious I guess.
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Yeah.... I remember Nathanias giving 20$ to Dragon, with the message to buy the girl he has been playing with recently some flowers. Really nice gesture from Nathanias making the whole stream aware of him.
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EPT
