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On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd.
And I've missed the clueless ppl who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion.
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On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd.
Reading effort fail.
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On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MarineKing played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd.
You know, this is like one of the only times where the pitchforking is about a legitimate concern. Have you watched the replay? If not, then you should not comment. To many of us, the evidence is plenty sufficient. We don't necessarily think that he threw the game for money, but many believe that the game was in fact thrown (intentionally lost) by MarineKing and someone had reason to think that he was going to do this.
No one is saying they have 100% proof. No one has 100% proof of anything. They are just saying that the evidence against MarineKing looks so strong that the statement provided by MVP is insufficient in proving his innocence.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter. You can consider the evidence insufficient. I can consider it sufficient.
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On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd.
Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass.
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On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail.
On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion.
On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details.
No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep".
The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is!
You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times.
edit:
On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass.
How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem?
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On April 22 2015 05:13 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MarineKing played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. You know, this is like one of the only times where the pitchforking is about a legitimate concern. Have you watched the replay? If not, then you should not comment. To many of us, the evidence is plenty sufficient. We don't necessarily think that he threw the game for money, but many believe that the game was in fact thrown (intentionally lost) by MarineKing and someone had reason to think that he was going to do this. No one is saying they have 100% proof. No one has 100% proof of anything. They are just saying that the evidence against MarineKing looks so strong that the statement provided by MVP is insufficient in proving his innocence. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter. You can consider the evidence insufficient. I can consider it sufficient.
Oh my god someone trying to hold a reasonable discussion! Thank you, I had almost lost hope..
But let me rebut you: People are saying they KNOW he's cheating, people think the replay in which he's playing poorly is 100% proof, and they want him to get kicked off the team or worse, based on opinions. That is my issue here, not that you have a (strong or otherwise) suspicion.
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On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail. Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion. Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep". The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is! You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times. edit: Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass. How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem?
That's hardly my argument, that's me telling you to read the topic. Do you really think this has picked up steam merely because of a poor performance by MKP?
On April 22 2015 04:45 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. You also missed the part where Rekrul reported that match-fixing is an open secret in Korea.. Do you have a source on this? It would surprise me very much if this was the case after all the debacle around this subject already.
Calling sources on Rekrul... lol
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On April 22 2015 05:22 GoShox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail. On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion. On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep". The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is! You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times. edit: On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass. How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem? That's hardly my argument, that's me telling you to read the topic. Do you really think this has picked up steam merely because of a poor performance by MKP? Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:45 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. You also missed the part where Rekrul reported that match-fixing is an open secret in Korea.. Do you have a source on this? It would surprise me very much if this was the case after all the debacle around this subject already. Calling sources on Rekrul... lol
I'm sorry, I didn't know being a well known person means you're off the hook on providing sufficient proof..
edit: Also, yes, what you did was ad hominem. You provided no actual point of discussion in your first post. Just straight to personal attack. You alongside 4 others. It's not the way to go about making yourself look like you're in the right. It makes you look like you're 2 minutes away from firing up the torches and pitchforks
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On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:
No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep".
Nice try, but no.
The reason you got such responses is because you posted something moronic, showing that you did not even bother to even read cliffs, without even talking about the small details. Trying to imply that "result would be the same" if you would actually bother to read the thread and use some arguments is a worst cop out i've seen in this thread yet.
On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:
The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is!
The truth is, we dont have enough proof to throw him in jail, but we have more than enough proof to say that the probability of him matchfixing outweights probability of him being innocent by a very, very large margin.
Call that despicable all you want, but numbers dont lie.
(also, MKP does not have much of a career left anyway, to be perfectly honest)
On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:
You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times.
Ye its been repeated by a people who dont have a rational sceptical mind, mostly thinking that MKP is either totally innocent or 200% guilty, and that noone should ever imply that he is guilty before we have a confession and a videotape of him counting the stacks of cash, and other types of "evidence" that they are waiting for.
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On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail. Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion. Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep". The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is! You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times. edit: Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass. How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem?
You still haven't come up with a smart counterargument, because your paraphrase of our position is "MKP played poorly therefore he matchfixed", which is incorrect. Your reading effort is still "fail" status.
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On April 22 2015 05:30 maGicc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:
No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep".
Nice try, but no. The reason you got such responses is because you posted something moronic, showing that you did not even bother to even read cliffs, without even talking about the small details. Trying to imply that "result would be the same" if you would actually bother to read the thread and use some arguments is a worst cop out i've seen in this thread yet. Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:
The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is!
The truth is, we dont have enough proof to throw him in jail, but we have more than enough proof to say that the probability of him matchfixing outweights probability of him being innocent by a very, very large margin. Call that despicable all you want, but numbers dont lie. (also, MKP does not have much of a career left anyway, to be perfectly honest) Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:
You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times.
Ye its been repeated by a people who dont have a rational sceptical mind, mostly thinking that MKP is either totally innocent or 200% guilty, and that noone should ever imply that he is guity before we have a confession and a videotape of him counting the stacks of cash, and other types of "evidence" that they are waiting for.
I read it all. You still haven't even bothered to argue why you think I haven't. Its just straight to personal attack because of difference in opinion, with no actual point to back it up.
So you don't think you have sufficient proof for court, but its good enough to have him pitchforked? See what I mean about despicable? If its not sufficient proof ITS NOT SUFFICIENT PROOF. I'm all for suspicion guys. Let it fuel you into further investigation, but that is absolutely NOT what where this thread is trailing. You're ready to nail him to a cross and you're attacking anyone who might think otherwise. I'm thoroughly disgusted with this community sometimes.
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On April 22 2015 05:36 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail. On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion. On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep". The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is! You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times. edit: On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass. How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem? You still haven't come up with a smart counterargument, because your paraphrase of our position is "MKP played poorly therefore he matchfixed", which is incorrect. Your reading effort is still "fail" status.
What am I suppose to counter? You still haven't proved an argument for me to counter. "Fail at reading jackass" is not an argument
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On April 22 2015 05:37 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:36 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail. On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion. On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep". The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is! You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times. edit: On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass. How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem? You still haven't come up with a smart counterargument, because your paraphrase of our position is "MKP played poorly therefore he matchfixed", which is incorrect. Your reading effort is still "fail" status. What am I suppose to counter? You still haven't proved an argument for me to counter. "Fail at reading jackass" is not an argument
This is a good summary
On April 21 2015 17:02 Ingvar wrote:
Ok, this discussion is becoming ridiculous. Let me just state what we know:
1) Pinnacle has voided >5 matches in different Korean tournaments. Every time the person supposed to win the match won it.
2) Korean illegal betting scene is huge. Olimoley (and others) tweeted about tournaments funded only for purpose of betting knowing the result, some people who want to stay anonymous but are vouched for by TL admins also told about it.
3) MK played the worst game in the history of pro SC2. Knowing the timings and lack of hatch in natural and gold bases, he didn't scout with reaper backdoor rocks of his base and didn't see either spine or creep for >1 minute.
4) Every pro who spoke about the issue (like Liquid.Snute in this very thread) doubted that such mistake can be done unintentionally.
5) ~5 years ago we already had the similar story and the coach also told that they asked Savior, he denied it and they saw no evidence that he did it. Later it was proved that there was matchfixing.
A hypothesis that MK fixed that match ties all these things neatly. Since nothing we can tell can change the attitude "this is not a proof", could the people defending MK give at least another plausible explanation to all these points?
Please note, this is not pitchforking, nobody asks for MK to get banned, only for investigation on this matter.
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Thank you, I'll read through it.
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On April 22 2015 05:36 Excludos wrote:
I read it all. You still haven't even bothered to argue why you think I haven't. Its just straight to personal attack because of difference in opinion, with no actual point to back it up.
No, its because you basically said that "all you have is MKP playing poorly", which is retarded and as very far from the truth.
On April 22 2015 05:36 Excludos wrote:
So you don't think you have sufficient proof for court, but its good enough to have him pitchforked?
Pretty much, yep.
On April 22 2015 05:36 Excludos wrote:
See what I mean about despicable? If its not sufficient proof ITS NOT SUFFICIENT PROOF.
Google levels of proof and balance of probability.
Expecting people to assume that he is innocent just because we dont have the 'proof beyond reasonable doubt' in our hands is delusional, and not going to happen.
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On April 22 2015 05:38 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:37 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 05:36 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail. On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion. On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep". The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is! You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times. edit: On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass. How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem? You still haven't come up with a smart counterargument, because your paraphrase of our position is "MKP played poorly therefore he matchfixed", which is incorrect. Your reading effort is still "fail" status. What am I suppose to counter? You still haven't proved an argument for me to counter. "Fail at reading jackass" is not an argument This is a good summary Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 17:02 Ingvar wrote:
Ok, this discussion is becoming ridiculous. Let me just state what we know:
1) Pinnacle has voided >5 matches in different Korean tournaments. Every time the person supposed to win the match won it.
2) Korean illegal betting scene is huge. Olimoley (and others) tweeted about tournaments funded only for purpose of betting knowing the result, some people who want to stay anonymous but are vouched for by TL admins also told about it.
3) MK played the worst game in the history of pro SC2. Knowing the timings and lack of hatch in natural and gold bases, he didn't scout with reaper backdoor rocks of his base and didn't see either spine or creep for >1 minute.
4) Every pro who spoke about the issue (like Liquid.Snute in this very thread) doubted that such mistake can be done unintentionally.
5) ~5 years ago we already had the similar story and the coach also told that they asked Savior, he denied it and they saw no evidence that he did it. Later it was proved that there was matchfixing.
A hypothesis that MK fixed that match ties all these things neatly. Since nothing we can tell can change the attitude "this is not a proof", could the people defending MK give at least another plausible explanation to all these points?
Please note, this is not pitchforking, nobody asks for MK to get banned, only for investigation on this matter.
Thank you as well. Just a shame you're in the minority of sensible in this thread. I realize I should probably have made a more thought out first post, but honestly I didn't have it in me after reading the past two pages. There is a lot of sense in this summary
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On April 22 2015 05:42 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 05:38 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2015 05:37 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 05:36 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 05:18 Excludos wrote:On April 22 2015 05:10 Doodsmack wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Reading effort fail. On April 22 2015 05:05 maGicc wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. And I've missed the clueless sheeps who dont bother reading anything before posting foolish and uneducated opinion. On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. No, you're right. Neither does anyone else in this thread. It's pointless when these are the kind of people one is trying to deal with. I could delve deeper into the subject and come up with smart counterarguments and try to hold a proper discussion, but why bother when the only answer one is going to get is "Fail @ reading" and "such sheep". The truth is, you don't have sufficient proof, and you're trying, very hard I might argue, to ruin a man's career over said not sufficient proof. And the worst part is you don't even understand yourself how fucking despicable this is! You can have all the suspicion you want, and by all means let it fuel you into further investigation, which is how this should work. But that is not at all what's going on in this thread. There's a reason the analogy of "witch burning" has been repeated so many times. edit: On April 22 2015 05:16 GoShox wrote:On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote:
I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. Might wanna read the topic before looking like a jackass. How can you even expect to think you're on the right side when all the arguments you can come up with is ad hominem? You still haven't come up with a smart counterargument, because your paraphrase of our position is "MKP played poorly therefore he matchfixed", which is incorrect. Your reading effort is still "fail" status. What am I suppose to counter? You still haven't proved an argument for me to counter. "Fail at reading jackass" is not an argument This is a good summary On April 21 2015 17:02 Ingvar wrote:
Ok, this discussion is becoming ridiculous. Let me just state what we know:
1) Pinnacle has voided >5 matches in different Korean tournaments. Every time the person supposed to win the match won it.
2) Korean illegal betting scene is huge. Olimoley (and others) tweeted about tournaments funded only for purpose of betting knowing the result, some people who want to stay anonymous but are vouched for by TL admins also told about it.
3) MK played the worst game in the history of pro SC2. Knowing the timings and lack of hatch in natural and gold bases, he didn't scout with reaper backdoor rocks of his base and didn't see either spine or creep for >1 minute.
4) Every pro who spoke about the issue (like Liquid.Snute in this very thread) doubted that such mistake can be done unintentionally.
5) ~5 years ago we already had the similar story and the coach also told that they asked Savior, he denied it and they saw no evidence that he did it. Later it was proved that there was matchfixing.
A hypothesis that MK fixed that match ties all these things neatly. Since nothing we can tell can change the attitude "this is not a proof", could the people defending MK give at least another plausible explanation to all these points?
Please note, this is not pitchforking, nobody asks for MK to get banned, only for investigation on this matter. Thank you as well. Just a shame you're in the minority of sensible in this thread. I realize I should probably have made a more thought out first post, but honestly I didn't have it in me after reading the past two pages. There is a lot of sense in this post
The point is, no one wants to repeat the same thing over and over again. If you had read this post, like you should have since you claimed you've read the entire thread, then you would know what has caused all the suspicions. Instead, you simply posted "oh MKP played bad and now you guys all think he's match fixing with any other proof?!". When all of the relevant details have been laid out already as to what can cause suspicion that he might have thrown the match on purpose, then it makes you look like a lazy poster/reader. That's why people get annoyed.
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The betting was so skewed (by people betting large amounts of money against MKP) that, near game time:
a $100 bet on Byul to win could win you $9 profit.
a $100 bet on MKP to win could win you $709 in profit.
People were SO confident that MKP was going to lose, they continued to pour tons and tons of money into bets for Byul for peanuts in return. THAT is how skewed the betting was. You could probably find a betting line that skewed if Apollo decided to step into a boxing ring with Floyd Mayweather Jr. Maybe.
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EPT
