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MVP's Statement on MarineKing - Page 21
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Penev
28483 Posts
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DuckloadBlackra
225 Posts
On April 22 2015 01:41 Mozdk wrote: Pretty horrible of them to say "proved wrong" and " all evidence gave us the same answer", when all they've stated they've done was talk to MarineKing, and watched the replay. Watch above. Then reread their post. Just because they use the fansy words, doesn't make it true. Come on dude! You're better than this! What else is there to do? All the reliable evidence MVP can obtain comes from watching the replay from MKP's camera perspective and asking him what he was thinking during all the significant points of the game. | ||
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:15 Doodsmack wrote: K bro. He thought the spine crawler in the fog of war was an overlord, didn't feel the need to check for a proxy hatch, thought 3 CC is viable vs proxy hatch, took several seconds to notice creep up against his building, and an irrational better deliberately manipulated lines such that he could maximize his profit if MKP lost game 1. Let's all pretend we can't judge probability. Let's all pretend circumstantial evidence and vague probabilities is enough for judging guilt in any developed justice system. If MKP matchfixed, he's guilty of a crime. Him playing bad is in no way definite proof since there's so many ways to explain it. I'm not sure how this is a difficult concept to grasp? | ||
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maGicc
Finland134 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:39 sushiman wrote: Him playing bad is in no way definite proof since there's so many ways to explain it. Not really, no, the best i've heard is "Lol its MKP doing MKP things XDDDDD" | ||
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Popkiller
3415 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:39 sushiman wrote: Let's all pretend circumstantial evidence and vague probabilities is enough for judging guilt in any developed justice system. If MKP matchfixed, he's guilty of a crime. Him playing bad is in no way definite proof since there's so many ways to explain it. I'm not sure how this is a difficult concept to grasp? this isn't a court room, or a justice system. We aren't deciding if MKP goes to jail, we are deciding if we want to support Proleague (or the Korean SC2 scene in general). We're deciding if it's worth watching or taking seriously. There is enough evidence to decide that it's not. | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:28 DuckloadBlackra wrote: What else is there to do? All the reliable evidence MVP can obtain comes from watching the replay from MKP's camera perspective and asking him what he was thinking during all the significant points of the game. ...asking him what he was thinking and then providing the community with zero example of any of these supposed lines of thinking. But trust us, we're sure it's all innocent. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:28 DuckloadBlackra wrote: What else is there to do? All the reliable evidence MVP can obtain comes from watching the replay from MKP's camera perspective and asking him what he was thinking during all the significant points of the game. They could bring in people from outside for a second opinion. They could look at the Korean betting sites to see if any other suspicious games jump out. They should ask their players if any of them had suspicious contacts or offers to fix games. Maybe ask around the other teams. When a player is approached to throw a game they need to report it to their coach and the police needs to get involved every single time. Most sports have a rule of this sort. Snooker world champion John Higgins got a 6 month ban when he failed to report an offer. It was actually a sting operation by a British tabloid and apparently he never did throw the game. But the fact that he didn't report the incident was enough for a ban. Lots of football match-fixers were caught with plain police work. They started with suspicious games and betting lines and used surveillance and wiretaps to gather evidence. Throwing games for money is fraud. The teams' job shouldn't be to decide if someone is guilty is not: their job is to keep an eye out for anything suspicious and refer the matter to the police. That and set up ethics rules that make match fixing more difficult and helps the police do their job. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:28 DuckloadBlackra wrote: What else is there to do? All the reliable evidence MVP can obtain comes from watching the replay from MKP's camera perspective and asking him what he was thinking during all the significant points of the game. Then it's not evidence! | ||
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:54 Popkiller wrote: this isn't a court room, or a justice system. We aren't deciding if MKP goes to jail, we are deciding if we want to support Proleague (or the Korean SC2 scene in general). We're deciding if it's worth watching or taking seriously. There is enough evidence to decide that it's not. If there's proof of matchfixing, it will end up in a courtroom, just like last time this happened. The most convincing evidence so far is betting lines, but that doesn't give any definite proof that can directly implicate MK just because he played the way he did. As I've said several times already, it's circumstantial. And "we" apparently had already decided he was guilty before MVP even released their statement without even considering what they say, or the fact that PL and CJ also have access to the replay. If that's enough for you to pass guilt, fine, but the evidence is inconclusive as is. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:39 sushiman wrote: Let's all pretend circumstantial evidence and vague probabilities is enough for judging guilt in any developed justice system. If MKP matchfixed, he's guilty of a crime. Him playing bad is in no way definite proof since there's so many ways to explain it. I'm not sure how this is a difficult concept to grasp? You're right it would not hold up in a developed justice system, but that's not what I'm arguing. (Casey Anthony's case didn't hold up either btw. And no she's not the only one) Lol @ you calling the probability vague. Use your knowledge of starcraft in combination with basic logical reasoning skills, and I combination with the correlation of manipulated betting lines. Basic logical reasoning achieved. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On April 22 2015 02:39 sushiman wrote: Let's all pretend circumstantial evidence and vague probabilities is enough for judging guilt in any developed justice system. If MKP matchfixed, he's guilty of a crime. Him playing bad is in no way definite proof since there's so many ways to explain it. I'm not sure how this is a difficult concept to grasp? As others have pointed out, this is very binary thinking, almost to the point of a straw man. There hasn't been an official investigation (unless MVP really did and just withheld the details, but reading the statement it looks there was no investigation just a talk with MKP). KeSPA hasn't even dignified any of the *5* games with a statement. After the San-Dark game Pinnacle reached out the KeSPA and apparently KeSPA didn't even dignify them with a private response / acknowledgement. They gave a statement to the Olimoley issue pretty quickly after all. People want to see those things. They want to see some action taken, anything substantial. People want to support SC2 as long as they can trust the integrity of the games and right now for a lot of people (including several admins/staff I should note) it hasn't been demonstrated that the integrity of the games are being protected. That's going to make people question whether they should keep watching / paying for Proleague. Add on what Rekrul and the other anonymous user (identity vouched for my admins as well) about Korean match-fixing and it's totally reasonable that some people don't buy this statement by MVP. In case it wasn't clear, none of this has to do with putting MKP in jail. | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
On April 22 2015 03:51 Wuster wrote: As others have pointed out, this is very binary thinking, almost to the point of a straw man. There hasn't been an official investigation (unless MVP really did and just withheld the details, but reading the statement it looks there was no investigation just a talk with MKP). KeSPA hasn't even dignified any of the *5* games with a statement. After the San-Dark game Pinnacle reached out the KeSPA and apparently KeSPA didn't even dignify them with a private response / acknowledgement. They gave a statement to the Olimoley issue pretty quickly after all. People want to see those things. They want to see some action taken, anything substantial. People want to support SC2 as long as they can trust the integrity of the games and right now for a lot of people (including several admins/staff I should note) it hasn't been demonstrated that the integrity of the games are being protected. That's going to make people question whether they should keep watching / paying for Proleague. Add on what Rekrul and the other anonymous user (identity vouched for my admins as well) about Korean match-fixing and it's totally reasonable that some people don't buy this statement by MVP. In case it wasn't clear, none of this has to do with putting MKP in jail. Unless we include Kespa jail of course. | ||
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matthy
66 Posts
Yes he played really really poorly but looking at the score, and oponent There isnt even a reason to fix! CJ would have won 100% Plus MKP was tilted from the start and there could be 100 other reasons maybe of stress no sleep you don't know that. | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On April 22 2015 04:15 matthy wrote: i dont get why it should be a fix? Yes he played really really poorly but looking at the score, and oponent There isnt even a reason to fix! CJ would have won 100% Plus MKP was tilted from the start and there could be 100 other reasons maybe of stress no sleep you don't know that. Using your logic of CJ would have won 100%. "If I'm going to lose anyway why not make some money out of it?" | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
Basically, in this case, as long as they weren't somehow super careless and let their plans leak to a source that wants to expose them, we are not going to get perfect proof because there is no reason for anyone involved in possible match fixing to incriminate themselves. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On April 22 2015 04:38 Excludos wrote: I'm a bit late to the party here..but basically: MVP played poorly and now everyone thinks he's matchfixing without any sufficient proof? Oh how I've missed you pitchfork crowd. You missed the part where this was the 5th suspicious game according to Pinnacle. And the suspicious games have concluded in the big money's favor 5 out of 5 times. You also missed the part where Rekrul reported that match-fixing is an open secret in Korea. That's the short of it anyways, but I get the feeling you don't really care about all the details. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
On April 22 2015 04:40 Wuster wrote: You also missed the part where Rekrul reported that match-fixing is an open secret in Korea.. Do you have a source on this? It would surprise me very much if this was the case after all the debacle around this subject already. | ||
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