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On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players.
Nah, I'm kinda going with Rekrul's point that the biggest thing your threads have done is advertise Pinnacle as a "multi-billion company" of which e-sports is 0.1% of their business (LOL) and pump yourself up as the savior of e-sports, pun intended.
All I can say is no, thanks. E-sports being clean for gambling, which is illegal in most countries of the fans and players, is hardly a sign of health for the game.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players.
Well atleast we now know why Swoopae keeps posting the same thing over and over and over and over again to the point where it becomes monotonous drivel, to SAVE ESPORTS!
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On April 15 2015 23:41 Circumstance wrote:
Do the "Pinnacle voids a bet" threads serve a purpose anymore? Every one results in the same posts and the same tail-chasing arguments from people who believe one side and people who believe the other. Nobody is gleaning truly new information, and no knowledge is coming out of them that had not been discussed to death in each previous thread in the exact same way.
I disagree, I had little to no idea about how rampant matchfixing is (most likely) in korean SC2 before collecting the data in the last two threads. You have to dig hard between all the useless posts, but it is possible.
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On April 15 2015 23:40 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:31 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence. Did you watch the Marineking vs Byul match? Justify his decisions from the standpoint that he is trying to win the game. It just isn't as obvious in some of the other matches because the players are better at fixing, so they make smaller errors that compound over time to lose the match.
Full disclosure I have always been an MK fan.
I think he is past his prime, hasn't kept up with the game and he has always been stubborn in terms of builds.
When he saw the 1 base he must've suspected a 1base all in and not thought of proxy hatch as a possibility (he didn't check both golds). He made a lot of mistakes in that match, enough that it looks absurd to pro players who have the luxury of hindsight and not being MK in those moments. But until we see him look at the spine in FPV on the replay I don't see anything justifying a 'mk throws match' claim.
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On April 15 2015 23:46 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Well atleast we now know why Swoopae keeps posting the same thing over and over and over and over again to the point where it becomes monotonous drivel, to SAVE ESPORTS!
I am not quite sure what your side is tbh. I guess it's kinda "meh whatever" ?
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On April 15 2015 23:48 Exstasy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:40 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:31 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:
[quote]
This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence. Did you watch the Marineking vs Byul match? Justify his decisions from the standpoint that he is trying to win the game. It just isn't as obvious in some of the other matches because the players are better at fixing, so they make smaller errors that compound over time to lose the match. Full disclosure I have always been an MK fan. I think he is past his prime, hasn't kept up with the game and he has always been stubborn in terms of builds. When he saw the 1 base he must've suspected a 1base all in and not thought of proxy hatch as a possibility (he didn't check both golds). He made a lot of mistakes in that match, enough that it looks absurd to pro players who have the luxury of hindsight and not being MK in those moments. But until we see him look at the spine in FPV on the replay I don't see anything justifying a 'mk throws match' claim.
Ehm, no. He scouted a late pool too. Where did all of Byuls minerals go?
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On April 15 2015 23:51 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:48 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:40 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:31 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:
[quote]
No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence. Did you watch the Marineking vs Byul match? Justify his decisions from the standpoint that he is trying to win the game. It just isn't as obvious in some of the other matches because the players are better at fixing, so they make smaller errors that compound over time to lose the match. Full disclosure I have always been an MK fan. I think he is past his prime, hasn't kept up with the game and he has always been stubborn in terms of builds. When he saw the 1 base he must've suspected a 1base all in and not thought of proxy hatch as a possibility (he didn't check both golds). He made a lot of mistakes in that match, enough that it looks absurd to pro players who have the luxury of hindsight and not being MK in those moments. But until we see him look at the spine in FPV on the replay I don't see anything justifying a 'mk throws match' claim. Ehm, no. He scouted a late pool too. Where did all of Byuls minerals go?
Byul is known for bad macro
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who is the bad guy ?
my pitchfork is ready
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On April 15 2015 23:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:51 Penev wrote:On April 15 2015 23:48 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:40 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:31 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:
[quote]
If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite.
This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence. Did you watch the Marineking vs Byul match? Justify his decisions from the standpoint that he is trying to win the game. It just isn't as obvious in some of the other matches because the players are better at fixing, so they make smaller errors that compound over time to lose the match. Full disclosure I have always been an MK fan. I think he is past his prime, hasn't kept up with the game and he has always been stubborn in terms of builds. When he saw the 1 base he must've suspected a 1base all in and not thought of proxy hatch as a possibility (he didn't check both golds). He made a lot of mistakes in that match, enough that it looks absurd to pro players who have the luxury of hindsight and not being MK in those moments. But until we see him look at the spine in FPV on the replay I don't see anything justifying a 'mk throws match' claim. Ehm, no. He scouted a late pool too. Where did all of Byuls minerals go? Byul is known for bad macro
bad macro, not silver league macro.
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On April 15 2015 23:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:51 Penev wrote:On April 15 2015 23:48 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:40 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:31 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:
[quote]
If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite.
This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence. Did you watch the Marineking vs Byul match? Justify his decisions from the standpoint that he is trying to win the game. It just isn't as obvious in some of the other matches because the players are better at fixing, so they make smaller errors that compound over time to lose the match. Full disclosure I have always been an MK fan. I think he is past his prime, hasn't kept up with the game and he has always been stubborn in terms of builds. When he saw the 1 base he must've suspected a 1base all in and not thought of proxy hatch as a possibility (he didn't check both golds). He made a lot of mistakes in that match, enough that it looks absurd to pro players who have the luxury of hindsight and not being MK in those moments. But until we see him look at the spine in FPV on the replay I don't see anything justifying a 'mk throws match' claim. Ehm, no. He scouted a late pool too. Where did all of Byuls minerals go? Byul is known for bad macro
Hehe, VERY bad macro
On April 15 2015 23:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:46 Rekrul wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Well atleast we now know why Swoopae keeps posting the same thing over and over and over and over again to the point where it becomes monotonous drivel, to SAVE ESPORTS! I am not quite sure what your side is tbh. I guess it's kinda "meh whatever" ?
Yeah, weird post.
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On April 15 2015 23:46 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Well atleast we now know why Swoopae keeps posting the same thing over and over and over and over again to the point where it becomes monotonous drivel, to SAVE ESPORTS!
He said to save 'korean esport scene', there is no need to go full ironic retard here.
Swoop done a fine job directing the public attention to the issue, so i am not sure why you have to be a dick about it, unless you are looking for a cheap internet hi-fives. I was assuming you were smarter than that, perphaps i was too hasty.
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On April 15 2015 23:51 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:48 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:40 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:31 Exstasy wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:
[quote]
No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence. Did you watch the Marineking vs Byul match? Justify his decisions from the standpoint that he is trying to win the game. It just isn't as obvious in some of the other matches because the players are better at fixing, so they make smaller errors that compound over time to lose the match. Full disclosure I have always been an MK fan. I think he is past his prime, hasn't kept up with the game and he has always been stubborn in terms of builds. When he saw the 1 base he must've suspected a 1base all in and not thought of proxy hatch as a possibility (he didn't check both golds). He made a lot of mistakes in that match, enough that it looks absurd to pro players who have the luxury of hindsight and not being MK in those moments. But until we see him look at the spine in FPV on the replay I don't see anything justifying a 'mk throws match' claim. Ehm, no. He scouted a late pool too. Where did all of Byuls minerals go?
We all know that if you scout late pool you know the mins are somewhere, but the possibility that he misjudged what he saw is thrown out of the window. It's possible to make mistakes. The way he set up his wall, units he went for were to hold the 1 base pressure then the 3rd CC to be ahead economically. I argue he stupidly didn't think of proxy hatch as an option.
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On April 15 2015 21:55 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:51 lichter wrote:
can we take bets on how long it takes for this thread to become too terrible to live? 10 pages
Gumba is about to make some e-sports money. Two more pages to go!
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On April 15 2015 23:43 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:41 Circumstance wrote:
Do the "Pinnacle voids a bet" threads serve a purpose anymore? Every one results in the same posts and the same tail-chasing arguments from people who believe one side and people who believe the other. Nobody is gleaning truly new information, and no knowledge is coming out of them that had not been discussed to death in each previous thread in the exact same way. Yes it serves a purpose. We want a statement from Kespa and we're not going to get one if we 'just forget this happened' every time it happens. I agree it may be time for a single thread though detailing all of the relevant information on the suspicious matches in question etc. rather than a new thread every time. Hopefully we get MVP's statement soon.
Every thread with the term "Pinnacle voids" in the title has been locked, all for the same reason - it outlived it's purposee and devolved into nothing more than petty bickering and circular arguments. We're not even ten pages deep and there are already personal attacks on posters in this one. You want a pattern that can't be ignored? Try that one.
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As The_Red_Viper says, people should just open a "wikifraud" and update it lol
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On April 15 2015 23:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:46 Rekrul wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Well atleast we now know why Swoopae keeps posting the same thing over and over and over and over again to the point where it becomes monotonous drivel, to SAVE ESPORTS! I am not quite sure what your side is tbh. I guess it's kinda "meh whatever" ?
I am not quite sure why one needs a side.
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On April 16 2015 00:06 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 15 2015 23:46 Rekrul wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:
[quote]
This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Well atleast we now know why Swoopae keeps posting the same thing over and over and over and over again to the point where it becomes monotonous drivel, to SAVE ESPORTS! I am not quite sure what your side is tbh. I guess it's kinda "meh whatever" ? I am not quite sure why one needs a side.
Because in this community you need to make snap judgements based on the first sniff of evidence that people submit. /s
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On April 15 2015 23:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:46 Rekrul wrote:On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Well atleast we now know why Swoopae keeps posting the same thing over and over and over and over again to the point where it becomes monotonous drivel, to SAVE ESPORTS! I am not quite sure what your side is tbh. I guess it's kinda "meh whatever" ?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/481281-pinnacle-voids-byul-vs-marineking-match?page=8#152
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On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it.
and you don't understand what proof means.
Obviously there is match fixing going on since it plagued everything (Champion's League and WC in football) but the amount of proof is so small that nothing gets done in any sport.
Main problem is that betting is a cancer for any competitive activity.
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Are bets within the same line of (e-)sport voided independently from eachother? Or do the requirements for a void lower whenever a void in the same 'region' already occured?
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EPT
