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On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever.
You. refuse. to. doubt. anything. whatsoever.
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On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore.
You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players.
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On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore.
You should apply your own signature to yourself (:
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On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players.
What about rekrul's post though?
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On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players.
Excellent retort, way to call someones opinion wrong because they don't agree with you. I hope everyone follows you blindly off your holier-than-thou cliff
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On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players.
I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence.
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On April 15 2015 23:27 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Excellent retort, way to call someones opinion wrong because they don't agree with you. I hope everyone follows you blindly off your holier-than-thou cliff
I don't follow blindly. I've educated myself about betting lines and have taken the opinions of insiders seriously. I came to the same conclusion as Swoopae unfortunately.
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There's always going to be players/fans who refuse everything. Hell even when Savior admitted matchfixing the biggest fans didn't stop praising him. No need to try to convince everyone, just state the facts clearly enough so the people can take their own conclusions. In my case watching the MK game and finally understanding how betting works (I've been learning how to play Poker and it helped a lot tbh) made it clear to me.
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On April 15 2015 23:27 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. Excellent retort, way to call someones opinion wrong because they don't agree with you. I hope everyone follows you blindly off your holier-than-thou cliff
Meh, you call people out for believing in data. If i look at these threads more people actually believe in your opinion (cause they usually have zero understanding of betting and probabilites).
All you do is shout "hey it is more likely that this big betting site would void bets cause they are greedy than it is for young, poor players to throw matches"
I mean maybe you really think it's more probable, but i don't think that's very rational at this point.
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While I think it's important to keep note that stuff like this is happening (crazy betting lines, MarineKing throwing a PL game, etc.), I also think it's getting to be rather annoying seeing a new thread for every event.
Could someone please make a dedicated thread or something for all these, instead of making a new one each time?
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On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it.
This.
Its actually very sad that after all we have there are still people that can say that "there is no proof" with a straight face.
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It's not my fault that you don't understand math and probability Longshot. I've explained multiple times why it is statistically impossible that match fixing is not occurring based on the numbers we are seeing. It's my job to understand math and probability and reach logical conclusions. Anyone in the sportsbetting community will agree has a 99%+ probability of it being the correct conclusion which is as close as we can come to 'beyond reasonable doubt' that match fixing is occuring in the Korean SC2 scene right now. We have nothing left to say to each other at this point. There are still people who believe Sandy Hook and 9/11 were false flag operations and that we didn't land on the moon. None of these are logical conclusions to reach upon careful evaluation of the evidence, but people reach these conclusions and defend them anyway.
I encourage people to learn how betting works, what dynamic betting lines are and what Pinnacle's business model involves. I have answered these questions in the previous matchfixing threads, but if anyone has questions about whatever feel free to PM me and I can answer the questions or point you to resources that teach you how betting works.
Regarding Rekrul's post, he makes some good points, but I don't agree necessarily that Kespa can't do anything about it. I'm sure he knows more than I do about the match fixing in Korea, as do the many pros (Huk, Kane, Welmu, etc) who have commented on the matter.
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On April 15 2015 22:03 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:51 lichter wrote:
can we take bets on how long it takes for this thread to become too terrible to live? Within 10 Pages: 1.20 10-20: 2.85 20-50: 5.00 50-99: 10.00 100+: 51.00 
Paying on Within 10. Fortunately for me no one bet
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On April 15 2015 23:36 maGicc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. This. Its actually very sad that after all we have there are still people that can say that "there is no proof" with a straight face.
I've been trying to find it myself but so far no one has pointed to anything other than betting lines, what else am I missing?
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I still believe this would be the best way:
On April 15 2015 22:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 22:23 Hider wrote:On April 15 2015 22:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 15 2015 21:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Can someone name this "[General] Pinnacle voids sc2 bets" where the op can collect and update all the information we have anytime something happens?
It just is ridiculous to close these threads all the time, even if the discussion on the last page is questionable, the information in the op is relevant for people to see so we can get the information about possible matchfixing in korea out there!
Otherwise nothing will change Yes, no? I think it is important that people can see this as long as possible. I don't want witchhunts, i want pressure for Kespa/Blizzard/korean sc2 to react The discussion turns out to be really really bad though. I don't even care about the "discussion", there really isn't much to discuss anyway. What's important is that there is an op which has all the important information, objectively collected. A stickied thread without comment function would do the trick (which gets updated anytime a bet is voided)
We simply cannot really discuss anything, it always comes down to: "i don't believe this cause X" against "look at the data, it is evidence!"
We have literally nothing to discuss, BUT people should be aware what happened, how betting works, what people with conncetions in korea said and draw their own conclusion from there on.
Closing every thread were people go crazy is a bad way, PLS just make an op with all the evidence we have atm, make it sticky and deactivate the comment fucntion, TY
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On April 15 2015 23:31 Exstasy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 23:25 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:22 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it. No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense. If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite. This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Wake the fuck up. You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever. No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it. I'm done. Everyone has already made up their mind and there is no reason to argue anymore. You've made up your mind without looking objectively at evidence. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively wrong. I mean, i'm doing my best to help save the Korean Esports scene before it's too late but if everyone wants to pretend the problem doesn't exist, then there's nothing more I can do. As Huk said, the longer this goes on before it's exposed the more likely it is that it'll kill the scene altogether rather than result in the suspension of the matchfixing players. I'm not denying that match fixing is happening, if people are betting then the potential is there. But looking at evidence is still subjective dude. There needs to more than betting lines for evidence.
Did you watch the Marineking vs Byul match? Justify his decisions from the standpoint that he is trying to win the game. It just isn't as obvious in some of the other matches because the players are better at fixing, so they make smaller errors that compound over time to lose the match.
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On April 15 2015 23:38 Swoopae wrote:
It's not my fault that you don't understand math and probability Longshot. I've explained multiple times why it is statistically impossible that match fixing is not occurring based on the numbers we are seeing. It's my job to understand math and probability and reach logical conclusions. Anyone in the sportsbetting community will agree has a 99%+ probability of it being the correct conclusion which is as close as we can come to 'beyond reasonable doubt' that match fixing is occuring in the Korean SC2 scene right now. We have nothing left to say to each other at this point. There are still people who believe Sandy Hook and 9/11 were false flag operations and that we didn't land on the moon. None of these are logical conclusions to reach upon careful evaluation of the evidence, but people reach these conclusions and defend them anyway.
Regarding Rekrul's post, he makes some good points, but I don't agree necessarily that Kespa can't do anything about it. I'm sure he knows more than I do about the match fixing in Korea, as do the many pros (Huk, Kane, Welmu, etc) who have commented on the matter.
2015, doesn't believe 9/11 was a false flag. You almost had me convinced there Swoopae :p
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Do the "Pinnacle voids a bet" threads serve a purpose anymore? Every one results in the same posts and the same tail-chasing arguments from people who believe one side and people who believe the other. Nobody is gleaning truly new information, and no knowledge is coming out of them that had not been discussed to death in each previous thread in the exact same way.
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On April 15 2015 23:41 Circumstance wrote:
Do the "Pinnacle voids a bet" threads serve a purpose anymore? Every one results in the same posts and the same tail-chasing arguments from people who believe one side and people who believe the other. Nobody is gleaning truly new information, and no knowledge is coming out of them that had not been discussed to death in each previous thread in the exact same way.
Yes it serves a purpose. We want a statement from Kespa and we're not going to get one if we 'just forget this happened' every time it happens.
I agree it may be time for a single thread though detailing all of the relevant information on the suspicious matches in question etc. rather than a new thread every time.
Hopefully we get MVP's statement soon.
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Why isn't the Korean police doing anything? Many call out KeSPA, but they may or may not investigate and have some interest at sweeping the whole thing under the rug, so ultimately they can't be completely trusted in this issue. The police on the other hand can't deny to investigate the issue and they have much better tools (checking for suspicious transactions and auditing) compared to KeSPA (politely asking coaches and checking replays).
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EPT
