EPTOn April 04 2015 10:17 Vari wrote:
innocent until proven guilty
except on the internet
innocent until proven guilty
except on the internet
This thread isn't a criminal court proceeding, just in case you were confused.
Pinnacle voids ByuL vs MarineKing Match - Page 63
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hangarninetysix
263 Posts
This thread isn't a criminal court proceeding, just in case you were confused. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On April 04 2015 11:10 Estancia wrote: If Marineking was actually involved in match fixing he wouldn't get paid by the fixers because that was some of the worst and most obvious acting I've ever seen, and the betting got voided anyway. You need savior level fixing to actually cause some trouble Maybe try reading the thread. ;D | ||
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ZeroReverse
Bulgaria108 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On April 04 2015 10:44 ZenithM wrote: The statement wouldn't take that long if MarineKing was completely clean and if no match fixing had ever taken place that day. I'll wait a bit before changing my sig though  Add "Prime" after MarineKing and your sig is probably fine though^^ | ||
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On April 04 2015 10:17 Vari wrote: innocent until proven guilty except on the internet Are you under the impression there's not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt? | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On April 04 2015 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: Are you under the impression there's not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt? Are you under the impression there's anything else other than non-conclusive circumstantial evidence on this case ? | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On April 04 2015 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: Are you under the impression there's not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt? Where I come frome people are only guilty if they're being convicted by a judge.~ | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On April 05 2015 00:42 KeksX wrote: Where I come frome people are only guilty if they're being convicted by a judge.~ Here in the United States we have juries made up of common people with no special training who decide the fate of those convicted of a crime. It is a constitutional right in the United States to have a jury of your peers decide your fate if you've been convicted of a crime. In fact, I've sat on a jury. So maybe I can judge this. And you can too! That whole stupid argument that is being used to defend MK now reminds me the argument used by many politicians who deny global warming: "I'm not a scientist, and I not qualified to decide which scientists are right or wrong on the debate of global warming because again, I'm not a scientist, so we should do nothing." But you are a human being with a brain. Use it. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On April 05 2015 00:53 BronzeKnee wrote: Here in the United States we have juries made up of common people with no special training who decide the fate of those convicted of a crime. It is a protected right in the United States to have a jury of your peers decide your fate if you've been convicted of a crime. In fact, I've sat on a jury. So maybe I can judge this. And you can too! No I can't and unless you investigated this and have proper training you shouldn't either. But let's not get into a political discussion. We're on an online gaming forum. We're not talking about silly maphacking that gets you banned by Blizzard, we're talking about real world crimes that have major consequences for the people involved. EDIT: I'm gonna ignore your edit. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On April 05 2015 00:58 KeksX wrote: We're on an online gaming forum. What does this have to do with anything? If we were talking in a bar would it be better or worse? How bout in my living room? How bout in a court room? What I went to school for law? What if I didn't? What if I need to take a dump right now? None of that makes any difference or detracts from the legitimacy of an argument. What does make a difference is the argument itself. Don't think so? Well, if this were going to be investigated and MK punished, many of the arguments used here could very well be used to punish him. Does that suddenly justify the arguments? Of course not, they were legitimate or not from the beginning, and we can find that out through debate. But you have to agree we can debate something before we do, and you don't think we can because you don't think we're smart enough. And as I said that goes against how the justice system actually works in the real world (at least in the US with juries, I don't know if other countries use juries, I just know the US is the best). But you're just trying to delegitimize my arguments by trying to delegitimize me. People do it all the time. And it's the fallacy of authority. Arguments are not tied to individuals or places, even gaming forums. Once they exist, they can be repeated by anyone, from the Pope to Putin. And who makes the argument doesn't matter, it is the same, holds the same power, no matter who says it. And that is because arguments are independent of people. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
Don't think so? Well, if this were going to be investigated and MK punished, many of the arguments used here could very well be used to punish him. Does that suddenly justify the arguments? Of course not, they were legitimate or not from the beginning, and we can find that out through debate. are you for real? How can we know the legitimacy of an argument if we don't investigate it? Do you just take everything for granted that people say? Of course not, you check if it's true. and then you decide on the consequence. But you have to agree we can debate something before we do, and you don't think we can because you don't think we're smart enough. And as I said that goes against how the justice system actually works in the real world (at least in the US with juries, I don't know if other countries use juries, I just know the US is the best). What? I never said anything like that, lol. I'm saying that none of us investigated this, all we have is evidence that there's some shady things going on in the betting world of eSports but we have no idea what actually IS going on. If you're so sure what is going on, please enlighten me. But you're just trying to delegitimize my arguments by trying to delegitimize me. People do it all the time. And it's the fallacy of authority. Man you're reading so much into this. I'm not the one calling people global warming deniers over an argument. I'm saying that we don't have proper evidence of what happened, we don't even have an idea of what exactly happened - what are we going to judge? Just to make it clear, I'm neither defending nor accusing MK. I just believe everyone deserves a fair trial, not an internet lynch mob. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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sertas
Sweden881 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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flipstar
226 Posts
On April 05 2015 01:06 BronzeKnee wrote: (at least in the US with juries, I don't know if other countries use juries, I just know the US is the best). *gasping for air* That's some funny shit. I'll have some faith in you and assume you meant "I just know the US the best". On April 05 2015 01:56 Dodgin wrote: I've got to thank the people still defending MK for keeping this thread bumped so it doesn't get swept under the rug like all the other cases! This. We've never had a better example of obvious fixing, so this game should not be forgotten. MKP not being fielded speaks a ton. I'm guessing that MVP will not field him again without a statement, so hopefully we will be getting a conclusion in this case. I hope his career is over, and also that they find really revealling evidence so that we can lay away the 0.1% possiblility of this not being matchfixing. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On April 05 2015 02:01 sertas wrote: unless mkp admits it or someone can check money he recieved(again this wouldnt actually be solid evidence what if someone randomly gave him money) or recorded his phone call with the fixer we will never have solid evidence anyway. And i seriously doubt we're gonna get any of those mentioned There were ways of getting savior etc as well(tough my knowledge of that is limited), I'm sure there are ways here as well. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On April 05 2015 00:42 KeksX wrote: Where I come frome people are only guilty if they're being convicted by a judge.~ If it doesn't fit you must acquit, right? The justice system is not the ultimate arbitrer of truth. Its primary purpose is social (discourage people from revenge) not philosophical. Ideally its conclusions should match reality as often as possible but there will always be mistakes. Starting from the assumption that whatever the justice system decided must be the truth is insidious because it doesn't allow you to evaluate how well the justice system is working. We can all agree that a justice system that convicts the guilty and acquits the innocent is working well. But if your only criterion for guilt and innocence is the decision of the court, then all justice systems are working perfectly. E.g. one might say: "OJ Simpson was acquitted, therefore he wasn't guilty, therefore the court was right in acquitting him and the justice system is working perfectly." Now, I'm not saying that we should not put any trust in police work and the decisions of the courts. But it can't just be blind trust. You should feel free to draw your own conclusions in cases where you have a lot of information and then compare those conclusions to the decisions of the courts or the results of official investigations. If you find there's often a mismatch, and you can't figure out why, then there is a problem. | ||
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Swoopae
Australia339 Posts
On April 04 2015 05:04 cheekymonkey wrote: Even though he intentionally lost, it doesn't necessarily mean he's involved in matchfixing. It is a possibility that he had said to someone that he didn't want to win, for whatever reason, and this got leaked to someone who took advantage of it. Intentionally not trying to win and telling someone about it is the definition of match fixing lol Still no statement from MVP and Kespa. We're waiting. | ||
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