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Active: 3793 users

Pinnacle voids ByuL vs MarineKing Match - Page 35

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 33 34 35 36 37 64 Next
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
March 25 2015 21:34 GMT
#681
On March 26 2015 06:33 Swoopae wrote:
Yeah ok. I hope they talk more about it. Match fixing is an infinitely bigger deal than viewbotting

Agreed. Unfortunately it seems they didn't really prepare for it though..
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Tuhill
Profile Joined June 2014
Scotland13 Posts
March 25 2015 21:34 GMT
#682
Yeah, they didn't talk about anything except the betting line and the spine crawler/creep. Richard mentioned having had some information from the Korean side translated for himself but didn't go into detail.
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2719 Posts
March 25 2015 21:36 GMT
#683
On March 26 2015 06:33 Swoopae wrote:
Yeah ok. I hope they talk more about it. Match fixing is an infinitely bigger deal than viewbotting

probably not :p I think most people on that show are streamers not pro players, so viewbotting is of a bigger concern, whereas match fixing is more of a issue currently being raised in Korean progaming. (Also, we can't really do anything if Kespa do anything.)
very illegal and very uncool
hangarninetysix
Profile Joined August 2010
263 Posts
March 25 2015 21:41 GMT
#684
There's so much discussion on whether or not MK's actions in game were suspicious. Thing is, whether they were or not, it doesn't change the fact that someone knew the outcome of the game before it was played.
batsnacks
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
United States4466 Posts
March 25 2015 21:44 GMT
#685
That video was pretty shocking.
Rocket-Bear
Profile Joined July 2014
3070 Posts
March 25 2015 21:47 GMT
#686
MKP did not cry. Should be proof enough.
Favorite players: Gh and Zai
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
March 25 2015 21:51 GMT
#687
Huk, Nathanias, Kane and Desrow favor match-fixing only based on the gameplay (not including betting patterns):



UberNuB
Profile Joined December 2010
United States365 Posts
March 25 2015 21:54 GMT
#688
On March 26 2015 06:41 hangarninetysix wrote:
There's so much discussion on whether or not MK's actions in game were suspicious. Thing is, whether they were or not, it doesn't change the fact that someone knew the outcome of the game before it was played.


those sweet sweet liquibets. gotta win a TL icon somehow...
the absence of evidence, is not the evidence of absence.
Grizvok
Profile Joined August 2014
United States711 Posts
March 25 2015 21:56 GMT
#689
On March 26 2015 05:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2015 05:37 OtherWorld wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:34 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:32 OtherWorld wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:23 Swoopae wrote:
Otherworld one thing worth noting is we're not all demanding Marineking be thrown out of progaming forever or be thrown in jail or whatever. What we're demanding is a proper investigation, because the circumstantial evidence says he is likely to be guilty. Nobody on TL has the resources to conduct a proper investigation on the ground in Korea. Pinnacle has previously agreed to be cooperative with Kespa and share their data, i'm assuming on betting patterns, IP addresses etc. Kespa have access to the replay at very least and potentially access to the players in questions computers/bank accounts to clear them or gather more evidence etc. i'm sure they could investigate properly if they wanted to, after all, the Savior scandal was exposed through a proper investigation.

If this goes unresolved and uninvestigated, opinions will vary on each implicated player's guilt or innocence, but it's obviously awful for the SC2 scene in general especially if matches continue to get cancelled after ridiculous bets are made and players heavily bet against go on to lose in suspicious fashion.

I do totally agree with you on that, and something should be done to force KeSPA to react at this point. But as you said, scandals are exposed through proper investigations, not through people spreading assumptions as if they were accepted truth. That will only bring bad things for everyone, and that's what some people are doing in this thread.

Yes, people who defend this play and the "coincidence" that there was a voided bet use many assumptions, i agree completely

I'm left speechless at such sick arguing skills.

It's a fact though, the only people with huge assumptions are the people defending his play considering we had a voided bet also.
You may not like it, but that's how it is

edit: and yes, all i have to add to this is to make fun of it, cause that's the only thing these assumptions deserve


Not really. I thought it was suspicious from the very beginning. I bet lots of people did. Just because this discussion is happening after the fact does not in any way mean people didn't have thoughts about the game that transpired. That fact that he threw down that third command is just mind boggling.
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
March 25 2015 21:56 GMT
#690
On March 26 2015 06:41 hangarninetysix wrote:
There's so much discussion on whether or not MK's actions in game were suspicious. Thing is, whether they were or not, it doesn't change the fact that someone knew the outcome of the game before it was played.

Yes that is true, but most people don't understand betting and this time it is linked with gameplay. It should open more eyes, but unfortunately it doesn't.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-25 21:59:37
March 25 2015 21:58 GMT
#691
On March 26 2015 06:56 Grizvok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2015 05:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:37 OtherWorld wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:34 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:32 OtherWorld wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:23 Swoopae wrote:
Otherworld one thing worth noting is we're not all demanding Marineking be thrown out of progaming forever or be thrown in jail or whatever. What we're demanding is a proper investigation, because the circumstantial evidence says he is likely to be guilty. Nobody on TL has the resources to conduct a proper investigation on the ground in Korea. Pinnacle has previously agreed to be cooperative with Kespa and share their data, i'm assuming on betting patterns, IP addresses etc. Kespa have access to the replay at very least and potentially access to the players in questions computers/bank accounts to clear them or gather more evidence etc. i'm sure they could investigate properly if they wanted to, after all, the Savior scandal was exposed through a proper investigation.

If this goes unresolved and uninvestigated, opinions will vary on each implicated player's guilt or innocence, but it's obviously awful for the SC2 scene in general especially if matches continue to get cancelled after ridiculous bets are made and players heavily bet against go on to lose in suspicious fashion.

I do totally agree with you on that, and something should be done to force KeSPA to react at this point. But as you said, scandals are exposed through proper investigations, not through people spreading assumptions as if they were accepted truth. That will only bring bad things for everyone, and that's what some people are doing in this thread.

Yes, people who defend this play and the "coincidence" that there was a voided bet use many assumptions, i agree completely

I'm left speechless at such sick arguing skills.

It's a fact though, the only people with huge assumptions are the people defending his play considering we had a voided bet also.
You may not like it, but that's how it is

edit: and yes, all i have to add to this is to make fun of it, cause that's the only thing these assumptions deserve


Not really. I thought it was suspicious from the very beginning. I bet lots of people did. Just because this discussion is happening after the fact does not in any way mean people didn't have thoughts about the game that transpired. That fact that he threw down that third command is just mind boggling.

You are completely misunderstanding Red_Viper lol :D
On March 26 2015 06:56 Jarree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2015 06:41 hangarninetysix wrote:
There's so much discussion on whether or not MK's actions in game were suspicious. Thing is, whether they were or not, it doesn't change the fact that someone knew the outcome of the game before it was played.

Yes that is true, but most people don't understand betting and this time it is linked with gameplay. It should open more eyes, but unfortunately it doesn't.

It does, I don't see too much unreasonable defending
I Protoss winner, could it be?
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
March 25 2015 21:59 GMT
#692
On March 26 2015 06:51 Jarree wrote:
Huk, Nathanias, Kane and Desrow favor match-fixing only based on the gameplay (not including betting patterns):

https://youtu.be/uQrNnVE9dbc?t=22m59s


HuK didn't even notice that reaper was indeed moved intentionally. I mean that's not really sick gameplay analysis.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
maGicc
Profile Joined March 2015
Finland134 Posts
March 25 2015 22:00 GMT
#693
Huk actually makes a lot of good points that i agree with, especially about nothing going on in the game, that was spot on.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55551 Posts
March 25 2015 22:05 GMT
#694
On March 26 2015 06:16 duckk wrote:
Look at when the scv scout enters the base of byul, marineking literally leans in next to his monitor to look. That alone (to me) shows that there is a legitimate chance that his vision is weak enough to mistake a spine crawler for an overlord on a minimap and to not notice the tile change of creep.

You know, the thing is, if this turns out to be true, MK's career as a progamer will basically have ended because he didn't apply his contacts properly/didn't play with glasses.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Grizvok
Profile Joined August 2014
United States711 Posts
March 25 2015 22:08 GMT
#695
On March 26 2015 06:58 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2015 06:56 Grizvok wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:37 OtherWorld wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:34 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:32 OtherWorld wrote:
On March 26 2015 05:23 Swoopae wrote:
Otherworld one thing worth noting is we're not all demanding Marineking be thrown out of progaming forever or be thrown in jail or whatever. What we're demanding is a proper investigation, because the circumstantial evidence says he is likely to be guilty. Nobody on TL has the resources to conduct a proper investigation on the ground in Korea. Pinnacle has previously agreed to be cooperative with Kespa and share their data, i'm assuming on betting patterns, IP addresses etc. Kespa have access to the replay at very least and potentially access to the players in questions computers/bank accounts to clear them or gather more evidence etc. i'm sure they could investigate properly if they wanted to, after all, the Savior scandal was exposed through a proper investigation.

If this goes unresolved and uninvestigated, opinions will vary on each implicated player's guilt or innocence, but it's obviously awful for the SC2 scene in general especially if matches continue to get cancelled after ridiculous bets are made and players heavily bet against go on to lose in suspicious fashion.

I do totally agree with you on that, and something should be done to force KeSPA to react at this point. But as you said, scandals are exposed through proper investigations, not through people spreading assumptions as if they were accepted truth. That will only bring bad things for everyone, and that's what some people are doing in this thread.

Yes, people who defend this play and the "coincidence" that there was a voided bet use many assumptions, i agree completely

I'm left speechless at such sick arguing skills.

It's a fact though, the only people with huge assumptions are the people defending his play considering we had a voided bet also.
You may not like it, but that's how it is

edit: and yes, all i have to add to this is to make fun of it, cause that's the only thing these assumptions deserve


Not really. I thought it was suspicious from the very beginning. I bet lots of people did. Just because this discussion is happening after the fact does not in any way mean people didn't have thoughts about the game that transpired. That fact that he threw down that third command is just mind boggling.

You are completely misunderstanding Red_Viper lol :D
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2015 06:56 Jarree wrote:
On March 26 2015 06:41 hangarninetysix wrote:
There's so much discussion on whether or not MK's actions in game were suspicious. Thing is, whether they were or not, it doesn't change the fact that someone knew the outcome of the game before it was played.

Yes that is true, but most people don't understand betting and this time it is linked with gameplay. It should open more eyes, but unfortunately it doesn't.

It does, I don't see too much unreasonable defending


Ah yes I see that I am haha. I thought he was saying people are only calling out the play because of the voided bet.
Swoopae
Profile Joined January 2015
Australia339 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-25 22:16:32
March 25 2015 22:16 GMT
#696
It's a combination of the absurd amount of money bet on Byul, many standard deviations outside of what is bet on a normal proleague match and all on the same player, combined with the way the match actually played out.

It's not conclusive, but I think it's fair to say that if Kespa don't investigate that they're turning a blind eye deliberately as an investigation is clearly warranted. I'm hoping an investigation has already been underway since the first suspicions were raised but who knows. Additionally if they do find that this match was fixed, they need to look at the other matches in question (there may be some false positives, but there is a strong chance if one match was fixed several were, and we've all identified several of the suspicious matches in question)

The video Jarree posted is worth watching by the way.
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
March 25 2015 22:18 GMT
#697
Here I am waiting for Kespa to release findings of an investigation or at least provide transparency that there is an investigation going on

when hell freezes over amirite?
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
March 25 2015 22:20 GMT
#698
On March 26 2015 07:18 Darkhorse wrote:
Here I am waiting for Kespa to release findings of an investigation or at least provide transparency that there is an investigation going on

when hell freezes over amirite?

You are not alone. And probably yes :/
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
March 25 2015 22:21 GMT
#699
I absolutely agree with Huk that this is by far the most suspicious game I've ever seen.
Saddest part is that regardless of guilt, the scene will be damaged.
sc2_FeaR
Profile Joined March 2015
Canada48 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-25 22:25:57
March 25 2015 22:25 GMT
#700
Marineking. You are a moron.

Also: He's a WITCH!!! Burn him at the stake boys
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