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hey at least it's not a bonjwa this time
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On March 25 2015 20:28 Muffloe wrote:
I don't know much about betting patterns.. because I do not bet. So, putting that aside, are we going to call matchfixing on player whos stubbornness is known to make him look dumb?
Edit: Perhaps that is the perfect disguise tho, but now we're getting farfetched I believe..
Ok so you see 8:1 odds for ByuL vs MKP. You need to put 8 dollars to win 1 dollar if you bet on Byul winning. MKP might be the underdog but 8:1? People still kept betting on Byul even with the terrible odds which makes it strange. If I were to bet on Byul I would make bet at like 60-40 odds. Way too much of a risk in a bo1 8:1 and MKP can pull off some pretty big wins in SPL as he has done before.
The other issue is that there has been more than this incident which is what's troublesome.
Pinnacle is huge, sc2 is supersmall compared to other sports they have on betting. They know when patterns are weird and shouldn't happen. Paying the betters their money back is not something they want as it's bad for their brand. But on the other hand they rather do that than proceed with suspicous betting patterns.
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the odds change to 8:1 BECAUSE people bet huge amounts on Byul..... read the thread 
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On March 25 2015 20:08 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 19:38 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 19:18 Alucen-Will- wrote:On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap. Marineking KNEW that Byul went hatch first since he saw pool timing. He knows it's not in Byul's natural, at the gold bases or in his own natural. He then made a deliberate choice not to scout around with his reaper. There is no reason not to do it, unless you don't want to find your opponent's hatchery. Marineking knows the speed timing since he saw the gas. I would love to hear any Starcraft pro (or anyone really) give any reason why you wouldn't do it. I just can't think of a reason other that you don't want to scout the hatch. This is not a simple mechanical error or a brainfart. He had to know what was going on. It's easy to see that from the outside perspective, but just a few weeks ago Maru missed an obvious Nydus in his base and didn't react for at least 30 seconds, by then he had lost the game. I'm not saying the he is innocent, only that he could be. Maru missing the Nydus is very maybe equivalent of MK missing the spine + creep, but not of not scouting for the hatch he KNOWS must be there. It really doesn't make any sense. You scout a Zerg without a natural and late pool.. Come on man.. I still think there's a big difference between Maru missing a Nydus for ~15-20 seconds and MarineKing missing creep + spine for 2+ minutes. Does Nydus even show up as a dot on the minimap? I'm not sure.
I agree, hence the "very maybe". The second part just seals the deal (for me).
On March 25 2015 20:10 Aeromi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 20:08 Soularion wrote:On March 25 2015 19:38 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 19:18 Alucen-Will- wrote:On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap. Marineking KNEW that Byul went hatch first since he saw pool timing. He knows it's not in Byul's natural, at the gold bases or in his own natural. He then made a deliberate choice not to scout around with his reaper. There is no reason not to do it, unless you don't want to find your opponent's hatchery. Marineking knows the speed timing since he saw the gas. I would love to hear any Starcraft pro (or anyone really) give any reason why you wouldn't do it. I just can't think of a reason other that you don't want to scout the hatch. This is not a simple mechanical error or a brainfart. He had to know what was going on. It's easy to see that from the outside perspective, but just a few weeks ago Maru missed an obvious Nydus in his base and didn't react for at least 30 seconds, by then he had lost the game. I'm not saying the he is innocent, only that he could be. Maru missing the Nydus is very maybe equivalent of MK missing the spine + creep, but not of not scouting for the hatch he KNOWS must be there. It really doesn't make any sense. You scout a Zerg without a natural and late pool.. Come on man.. I still think there's a big difference between Maru missing a Nydus for ~15-20 seconds and MarineKing missing creep + spine for 2+ minutes. Does Nydus even show up as a dot on the minimap? I'm not sure. He did not see the creep on his base.
Is it possible for you to make a video with the replay?
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On March 25 2015 20:35 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 20:08 Soularion wrote:On March 25 2015 19:38 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 19:18 Alucen-Will- wrote:On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap. Marineking KNEW that Byul went hatch first since he saw pool timing. He knows it's not in Byul's natural, at the gold bases or in his own natural. He then made a deliberate choice not to scout around with his reaper. There is no reason not to do it, unless you don't want to find your opponent's hatchery. Marineking knows the speed timing since he saw the gas. I would love to hear any Starcraft pro (or anyone really) give any reason why you wouldn't do it. I just can't think of a reason other that you don't want to scout the hatch. This is not a simple mechanical error or a brainfart. He had to know what was going on. It's easy to see that from the outside perspective, but just a few weeks ago Maru missed an obvious Nydus in his base and didn't react for at least 30 seconds, by then he had lost the game. I'm not saying the he is innocent, only that he could be. Maru missing the Nydus is very maybe equivalent of MK missing the spine + creep, but not of not scouting for the hatch he KNOWS must be there. It really doesn't make any sense. You scout a Zerg without a natural and late pool.. Come on man.. I still think there's a big difference between Maru missing a Nydus for ~15-20 seconds and MarineKing missing creep + spine for 2+ minutes. Does Nydus even show up as a dot on the minimap? I'm not sure. I agree, hence the "very maybe". The second part just seals the deal (for me). Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 20:10 Aeromi wrote:On March 25 2015 20:08 Soularion wrote:On March 25 2015 19:38 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 19:18 Alucen-Will- wrote:On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap. Marineking KNEW that Byul went hatch first since he saw pool timing. He knows it's not in Byul's natural, at the gold bases or in his own natural. He then made a deliberate choice not to scout around with his reaper. There is no reason not to do it, unless you don't want to find your opponent's hatchery. Marineking knows the speed timing since he saw the gas. I would love to hear any Starcraft pro (or anyone really) give any reason why you wouldn't do it. I just can't think of a reason other that you don't want to scout the hatch. This is not a simple mechanical error or a brainfart. He had to know what was going on. It's easy to see that from the outside perspective, but just a few weeks ago Maru missed an obvious Nydus in his base and didn't react for at least 30 seconds, by then he had lost the game. I'm not saying the he is innocent, only that he could be. Maru missing the Nydus is very maybe equivalent of MK missing the spine + creep, but not of not scouting for the hatch he KNOWS must be there. It really doesn't make any sense. You scout a Zerg without a natural and late pool.. Come on man.. I still think there's a big difference between Maru missing a Nydus for ~15-20 seconds and MarineKing missing creep + spine for 2+ minutes. Does Nydus even show up as a dot on the minimap? I'm not sure. He did not see the creep on his base. Is it possible for you to make a video with the replay?
you guys need to read Welmu's post
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Can anyone explain why anyone in the whole world with any knowledges of the Starcraft scene would bet on Byul with those, really really, crappy odds unless they knew it was a 100% safe bet?
What e-sport supporter in the world would bet thousands of dollars on ONE game, pick this one, and then bet on Buyl with awful odds?
Id say none. Unless they knew he was going to win.
Add MKPs totally unexplainable (it cant be explained, unless he comes out and does it himself) game play - what conclussions other than match fixing can be made?
For me - none.
Untill MKP actually gives an explanation on why on earth he played that game like he did. Untill then atleast I will consider MKP as a cheater. And that is said from a huge MKP-fan since so many years. But come on. This is really strange.
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On March 25 2015 20:45 CrayonPopChoa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 20:35 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 20:08 Soularion wrote:On March 25 2015 19:38 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 19:18 Alucen-Will- wrote:On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap. Marineking KNEW that Byul went hatch first since he saw pool timing. He knows it's not in Byul's natural, at the gold bases or in his own natural. He then made a deliberate choice not to scout around with his reaper. There is no reason not to do it, unless you don't want to find your opponent's hatchery. Marineking knows the speed timing since he saw the gas. I would love to hear any Starcraft pro (or anyone really) give any reason why you wouldn't do it. I just can't think of a reason other that you don't want to scout the hatch. This is not a simple mechanical error or a brainfart. He had to know what was going on. It's easy to see that from the outside perspective, but just a few weeks ago Maru missed an obvious Nydus in his base and didn't react for at least 30 seconds, by then he had lost the game. I'm not saying the he is innocent, only that he could be. Maru missing the Nydus is very maybe equivalent of MK missing the spine + creep, but not of not scouting for the hatch he KNOWS must be there. It really doesn't make any sense. You scout a Zerg without a natural and late pool.. Come on man.. I still think there's a big difference between Maru missing a Nydus for ~15-20 seconds and MarineKing missing creep + spine for 2+ minutes. Does Nydus even show up as a dot on the minimap? I'm not sure. I agree, hence the "very maybe". The second part just seals the deal (for me). On March 25 2015 20:10 Aeromi wrote:On March 25 2015 20:08 Soularion wrote:On March 25 2015 19:38 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 19:18 Alucen-Will- wrote:On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap. Marineking KNEW that Byul went hatch first since he saw pool timing. He knows it's not in Byul's natural, at the gold bases or in his own natural. He then made a deliberate choice not to scout around with his reaper. There is no reason not to do it, unless you don't want to find your opponent's hatchery. Marineking knows the speed timing since he saw the gas. I would love to hear any Starcraft pro (or anyone really) give any reason why you wouldn't do it. I just can't think of a reason other that you don't want to scout the hatch. This is not a simple mechanical error or a brainfart. He had to know what was going on. It's easy to see that from the outside perspective, but just a few weeks ago Maru missed an obvious Nydus in his base and didn't react for at least 30 seconds, by then he had lost the game. I'm not saying the he is innocent, only that he could be. Maru missing the Nydus is very maybe equivalent of MK missing the spine + creep, but not of not scouting for the hatch he KNOWS must be there. It really doesn't make any sense. You scout a Zerg without a natural and late pool.. Come on man.. I still think there's a big difference between Maru missing a Nydus for ~15-20 seconds and MarineKing missing creep + spine for 2+ minutes. Does Nydus even show up as a dot on the minimap? I'm not sure. He did not see the creep on his base. Is it possible for you to make a video with the replay? you guys need to read Welmu's post
I read it AND agree with it. I guess you should read my posts.
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Kespa better make a damn good statement this time
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On March 25 2015 20:35 nkr wrote:the odds change to 8:1 BECAUSE people bet huge amounts on Byul..... read the thread
I did and you must have misunderstood me or something.
Would I bet on Byul if 50/50 odds? yeah
60/40, yeah sure
66/33 eh maybe
4:1 no, too much of a risk in a bo1 vs a player like MKP: Byul is not Maru either.
5:1 fuck no
6:1 maybe I should bet on mkp? the odds are pretty fucking good for a bo1
7:1 (remember people are still fucking betting huge amounts on Byul at this point)
8:1 (remember people are still fucking betting huge amounts on Byul at this point)
For a person who can't be sure about the outcome then it's just way too weird. Just like the San vs Dark and Super vs Innovation. (Where the betters apparently thought Super was a massive favourite to Innovation in Game 1 of a bo3 and not in the game 2 / game 3).
Oh well.
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whatever comes out of the situation, the damage is done.
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On March 25 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 20:28 Muffloe wrote:
I don't know much about betting patterns.. because I do not bet. So, putting that aside, are we going to call matchfixing on player whos stubbornness is known to make him look dumb?
Edit: Perhaps that is the perfect disguise tho, but now we're getting farfetched I believe.. Ok so you see 8:1 odds for ByuL vs MKP. You need to put 8 dollars to win 1 dollar if you bet on Byul winning. MKP might be the underdog but 8:1? People still kept betting on Byul even with the terrible odds which makes it strange. If I were to bet on Byul I would make bet at like 60-40 odds. Way too much of a risk in a bo1 8:1 and MKP can pull off some pretty big wins in SPL as he has done before. The other issue is that there has been more than this incident which is what's troublesome. Pinnacle is huge, sc2 is supersmall compared to other sports they have on betting. They know when patterns are weird and shouldn't happen. Paying the betters their money back is not something they want as it's bad for their brand. But on the other hand they rather do that than proceed with suspicous betting patterns.
Thanks for explaining it more thoroughly 
I will still refrain with claiming guilt on MK tho. If this pattern is as hard evidence as some make it to be then he is probably already screwed tho.
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this shady stuff was somewhat obvious since that super vs innovation game, this almost confirms it.
so, the other stuff of rigged online tournaments is investigated by richard lewis right now.
Does anyone know what Kespa/etc. is doing right now? What kind of investigations are started/exist currently?
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On March 25 2015 19:40 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 19:37 lohdon wrote:
I don't think that the video is proof of anything. The spine could have easily been missed especially if he mistakenly thought he was going to be one base baneling busted and his focus was on being ready to defend the front.
It looks very suspicious but there is not enough to call him guilty. You build a bunker vs one base bane, and the reapers should be hopping down and up to check for lings or banes..
Not interested to take any sides or get into the speculations on matchfixing or not, but just in terms of gameplay what could have happened is interesting:
- the spine crawler on the minimap could have been mistaken for an overlord, or plainly ignored. Keep in mind ByuL played yellow. There is no red dot on MKs minimap, what he sees is an extra dot that your brain could easily identify as part of a mineral line when you glance onto it.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EmkT61H.jpg)
- the reapers can't hop up and down on Expedition Lost! The only way out is through the main ramp, and then the natural ramp. MK checked for a proxy hatch in the natural which wasn't there, so under the assumption of a frontal attack, just keeping the reapers behind his wall makes sense (no cliff escape).
- it could happen that MK was really just off. It is not necessary to SCV scout when you reaper expand anyways. Due to the terrain on EL, reaper expand might not be the best build to begin with. So what could have happend was MK actually wanting to 1rax expand because of EL, out of habit starting a gas and upon realizing going reaper expand, but still SCV scouting as if it was a 1rax expand. At this point any player, pro or amateur, would start to question his timing sense and MK. MK proceeds to double check the obvious bases ByuL could have taken - both golds and MKs natural but doesn't find a hatchery. At this point, he might really think that ByuL went pool first, maybe something like 16/16 instead of 14/14.
Now, I know that he technically scouted the Spine Crawler building, but he truely never scouted towards that location at the bottom of his base. What he did was move his reaper out of the way to start his Command Center at the ramp, which moved the reaper close enough to reveal the spine. But given that MK was building 2depots and a CC at the front at that moment in time, his camera could have very likely been too far up to actually have the spine on his screen ever.
From there he proceeds to control his reaper in a way to cover the front of his base against a baneling or roach rush. Now a spine crawler rush aside, there is no reason to actually pay attention towards the backdoor of your base that early against Zerg. Both roaches and zerglings (which you can only have 4attack the rocks from the bottom!) take forever to actually break through.
I know this sounds a bit like a pile of made up bullshit, but everyone who has played SC2 has had those moments where you are tired and not very confident and you switch from idea to idea in your head and proceed to lose in the most embarassing way possible. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it can be. Statistically, we are bound to see such matches sometimes.
I mean, this has also happened:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Pretty sure MKP plays with the green/red color. Alt + F so Byul is still red not yellow. Only yellow for spectators
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MarineKing tweeted TotalBiscuit's article about betting and mysterious sponsors just last month:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1ski6uo
Is it possible that someone fed early information from the match ahead of the delay, I mean the proxy hatch was unscouted pretty early in the game so it was easy to call the game. Is this possible? I don't know how much of a window there is with betting in a proleague match. Or like someone else said it could of been the build orders that were leaked, 3 CC vs proxy hatch is another sure thing.
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On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap.
Not moving a scouting worker far enough into 3 main bases in a row on a map you've played on probably hundreds of times is not just a mechanical mistake. This Swoope dude, or whatever - can't be bothered to look it up - if he had money riding on the game on Frost I mentioned, would have taken to twitter, fists raised, yelling about how no pro player would ever do that. That it must be match fixing, blah, blah, blah.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be an investigation. I'm not saying MK is innocent. I'm saying we don't know, and if MK is innocent, there are stranger things that happened in the world since I began typing this post. Lower pitch forks, wait for more information before jumping to conclusions.
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I don't believe it. MKP stayed on Prime for so many years while his team mates jumped ship to look for better offers. I always had the impression he appreciated respect more than money. If I have to choose between MKP and a betting site, I'll go for MKP till more evidence surfaces. Checking his bank account could be an interesting twist.
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On March 25 2015 20:08 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 19:38 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 19:18 Alucen-Will- wrote:On March 25 2015 19:08 DJHelium wrote:On March 25 2015 19:04 Bohemond wrote:
The way people are talking about how the game had to be a throw from MK because of how poorly he played is pathetic. As bad as the game was, I've seen far worse pro games over the years that I've been watching SC2.
Hell, I don't remember who was playing, but I once watched a game on Frost in a major tournament where one of the players didn't move his scouting worker far enough into the main bases to see the other players buildings. He ended up 'scouting' every base, and didn't find his opponent .That is, just like MK potentially not seeing the spine, something that no pro player would ever do... except, he did.
The betting is odd and suspicious, however. I hope there's an investigation. It's possible that everyone is involved, or no one. But cool off with all the allegations. It's easy to throw out accusations, but remember that lives can be ruined from this kind of stuff.
I'm really disappointed with how lightly this thread is being moderated. The thing is that this isn't just a mechanical mistake like not scouting far enough or not seeing a spine on the minimap. Marineking KNEW that Byul went hatch first since he saw pool timing. He knows it's not in Byul's natural, at the gold bases or in his own natural. He then made a deliberate choice not to scout around with his reaper. There is no reason not to do it, unless you don't want to find your opponent's hatchery. Marineking knows the speed timing since he saw the gas. I would love to hear any Starcraft pro (or anyone really) give any reason why you wouldn't do it. I just can't think of a reason other that you don't want to scout the hatch. This is not a simple mechanical error or a brainfart. He had to know what was going on. It's easy to see that from the outside perspective, but just a few weeks ago Maru missed an obvious Nydus in his base and didn't react for at least 30 seconds, by then he had lost the game. I'm not saying the he is innocent, only that he could be. Maru missing the Nydus is very maybe equivalent of MK missing the spine + creep, but not of not scouting for the hatch he KNOWS must be there. It really doesn't make any sense. You scout a Zerg without a natural and late pool.. Come on man.. I still think there's a big difference between Maru missing a Nydus for ~15-20 seconds and MarineKing missing creep + spine for 2+ minutes. Does Nydus even show up as a dot on the minimap? I'm not sure.
Plus Maru was macroing and microing across 2/3 bases. Marineking has nothing to macro or micro at that moment.
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I don't see why people keep bringing up Maru, he's continually successful and I see no reason to suspect him in anything given there have been no suspicious betting patterns in his matches.
Obviously I can't conclusively rule anything out but I see no reason why he would be under suspicion for missing something that leads to a game loss in a map alone, by itself it doesn't mean anything it's when it's coupled with incredibly suspicious line movements in the betting that it's noteworthy. I could find 100 examples of game losing mistakes, and while yes, some of them may be as a result of a match being fixed most won't. It's the betting patterns coupled with such mistakes that make a match suspicious.
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People don't seem to realize how the game plays out is almost completely irrelevant. The stats are more proof than how the game plays out.
It just makes it extra weird because it was such a lowlevel mistake by MKP.
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EPT
