EPT"Suspicious Korean sponsors" tweets by Olimoley - Page 21
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
I for example have almost 10 years of experience in online gaming industry. If I had wrote what I really think about the case, some angry fans would have reported me and maybe an overeager mod would have banned me. So why bother? Instead the thread was full of "I don't believe anything bad could have ever happened" -types of posts, and then there's the guys that yell "fucking peace of shit player" etc. So the actual knowledge, even tiny amounts of it that can cumulate, might not ever surface. But I don't want to derail this thread anymore, so that's enough for that. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On February 09 2015 21:50 Jarree wrote: Yeah that is funny, but I wrote during WOL, not 2 months ago. Hey I have an idea. Go find an article called "Lings of Liberty". Then come back | ||
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
On February 09 2015 22:15 Darkhorse wrote: Hey I have an idea. Go find an article called "Lings of Liberty". Then come back That was a great article, 6 months to 1 year too late and when HOTS beta was already out (for 3 months). It took that long and a new expansion already available to write that, like it did 6 months right now for anyone to say a word. But I like your "then come back", these are emotional things for many people I get it. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12407 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On February 09 2015 22:39 Jarree wrote: That was a great article, 6 months to 1 year too late and when HOTS beta was already out (for 3 months). It took that long and a new expansion already available to write that, like it did 6 months right now for anyone to say a word. But I like your "then come back", these are emotional things for many people I get it. I think you need to understand that you are arguing here against the wall. Many of the people "in power" (however laughable amount of power that is) on TL understand and acknowledge the fact that moderation is used here to push specific agendas and opinions and publicly state that it won't change, because it's a good thing in their opinion. So in short, you are correct, argument won, no need to go on, however that has absolutely no effect on anything. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On February 09 2015 22:15 Darkhorse wrote: Hey I have an idea. Go find an article called "Lings of Liberty". Then come back I understand where Jarree is coming from. At the exact same time that TheDwf posted ZParCraft II, people were getting warned and banned for calling Protoss OP and calling Protoss all-ins "bullshit" in live discussion threads. I understand the desire to keep a pleasant atmosphere on the forums, but Protoss was OP as hell, and their all-ins were complete and utter bullshit. You just weren't allowed to say it quite so bluntly unless you were in the right little corner of the forum. It isn't PC. It's a very different approach to moderation from what I've encountered elsewhere, and it takes a lot of getting used to. On the one hand, it keeps spam and hostility way down. On the other, it hides the extent of dissatisfaction within the community until someone comes in with a very constructive in-depth analysis... which could take months of data compiling... by which point in time a lot of tournaments will have come and gone. If you think of TL.net as one of Blizzard's foremost sources of information about public perception of SC2 (a valid theory given how quickly Blizz responded to ZParCraft), then hiding the extent of dissatisfaction could be a very bad thing. But letting all the dissatisfaction out into the limelight runs the risk of diluting the effect an article like ZParCraft has once it's released - as things stand, there's no way it gets mistaken for your run of the mill balance whine. I'm not calling for any reforms just yet. Like I said... it takes getting used to. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26341 Posts
There are a sufficient amount of threads and outlets for vaguely productive balance discussion here, where idiotic posting is rightly lambasted. Thank god for a degree of standards, otherwise it could devolve to a Twitch/Bnet forum level akin to chimpanzees flinging around faeces at one another. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On February 09 2015 20:58 Jarree wrote: I don't even understand how people think there is anything "open" related to TL. For example the game was completely broken in WOL and anyone who even hinted the balance was off, got warned/banned for balance-whining. Protecting the game (what ever that means) has always been more important than fixing issues. If people had posted their suspicions 6 months ago the entire thing would have started to unravel. It doesn't begin with 100% foolproof evidence, it begins by creating an environment where people are willing to come forward with their knowledge. There is a big difference between balance whine and posting suspicions of match fixing/illegal gambling. Balance whine is useless. A long, constructive post discussing a balance issue would no doubt be received better. In this case, it depends who has suspicions of cheating. I suspect the thread wasn't closed b/c it's a respected member of the community. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
That's an oversimplification. There's a reason truth is called a virtue. Speaking out, adding your voice to a cause simply to say "yes, I agree," can absolutely make a difference. The question is whether it's enough of a difference to offset the negatives that come with people speaking out... a lot. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12407 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On February 09 2015 23:25 Nebuchad wrote: The thing is, you're being disingenuous. You claim that with the system we have now, people wouldn't see that the dissatisfaction of the community in early 2014. That is simply not true. I don't think I'm being disingenuous at all. It's not a matter of absolutes - "people will see" or "people won't see." It's a matter of degrees. The tradeoff is impossible to judge, and I'm not taking it upon myself to say the way TL admins have been doing it for years is wrong. I'm just saying that there is a tradeoff. My personal values have at times put me at odds with "balance whine" policy. I probably have different priorities when I watch SC2 matches than do the site's admins. Hopefully my lack of recent warnings has more to do with me becoming accustomed to TL's way of life than it does with the increased number of Terrans in Code S.  | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12407 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On February 09 2015 23:24 pure.Wasted wrote: That's an oversimplification. There's a reason truth is called a virtue. Speaking out, adding your voice to a cause simply to say "yes, I agree," can absolutely make a difference. The question is whether it's enough of a difference to offset the negatives that come with people speaking out... a lot. The reason I believe balance whine is useless is b/c balance doesn't play any role in the game until you're top GM. Agreeing with other people who say "x is op" is useless really. No one should care about your opinion anyway unless you're pro. Saying things like "protoss all ins are bullshit" is just going to start arguements all over the forum. Besides, that statement comes from the heart, not from the head. Why is it bullshit? Come up with 10 solid pts and throw some pictures in there and now you have something of substance. If you still got warned for posting it, that would be weird. I myself have been victim to over-modding on TL, but when it comes to balance, it seems just to me. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On February 09 2015 23:39 Nebuchad wrote: I'm confused what your point is then. You said the advantage of the policy was that it kept the forum civil. You said that the disadvantage is that we couldn't see people being annoyed with the game. To my answer that we actually could, you answer that it's a matter of degrees. Do you mean we couldn't see the degree to which people were annoyed with the game? Cause honestly, we really could^^, and on top of that I don't want Blizzard to balance the game based on the degree of reaction from the community... You're not confused, you understood my point perfectly well! If Blizzard understood exactly how frustrated we were, why, in the weeks leading up to ZparCraft II, was David Kim still saying that there was no clear problem in TvP/TvZ? As early as April he's on record saying that "the matchup is still slightly in favor of Protoss," emphasis mine, and "there's not a clear problem" in either TvP or TvZ. Then TheDwf writes up his post, and within a few days there are clear problems that Blizzard needs to address ASAP with sweeping buffs to the WM. I don't think that it's a given that our frustration level was perfectly clear. I think it became clear after TheDwf's post. Or else our frustration level was clear but Blizzard was not competent enough to understand how to fix the game until they read TheDwf's recommendations (which were hardly original). There's no real way they come out smelling of roses, here. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On February 10 2015 00:19 Zealously wrote: And more importantly, why is it relevant to this thread? If you have thoughts about Moderation or our policies, there is an entire subforum dedicated to that. Sorry about that. I knew it was wrong but I couldn't help myself.  | ||
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
On February 10 2015 00:19 Zealously wrote: And more importantly, why is it relevant to this thread? If you have thoughts about Moderation or our policies, there is an entire subforum dedicated to that. Yeah.... I had to keep scrolling up to the title to make sure I was still reading the right thread. I do think it's sort of weird that all of this is being done so suddenly, and after so long of it being known. Maybe oli just thought enough was enough and there was a tipping point. It does sound like this kind of thing has been an ever-present issue in KR, and the Koreans just sort of ignore it. The players probably just think of it as spam at this point, sort of like the people who try and sneak into games to chatspam. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
can't wait for this to unfold so i can unleash some righteous rage on whichever sorry sucker was involved. | ||
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