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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
Judging from tournament organizers' statements, these sponsors really started abusing the grassroots scene. That really sucks. And from Kespa's recent statement, it might be harder for BTTV or Conn.Si to get players like Solar or Classic to participate. Plus no more dirty money  | ||
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Starecat
941 Posts
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
Competitors will always be approached by shady characters trying to profit off of them. Starcraft is serious business in Korea, and that's awesome. The integrity of wins should always be questioned in any league, and we can't blame tournament organizers for taking whatever sponsorship they can get. Sponsors are in a very powerful position in the grassroots and semi-pro scene, and it doesn't surprise me that there are sponsors who abuse this position of power. Blizzard didn't exactly help to expand the player-base of Starcraft 2. For one, the Battlenet Manager app. doesn't lend itself to promotion outside of an inner circle: Battlenet games are advertised to Battlenet gamers. Sell Starcraft 2 on Steam. Advertise Starcraft 2 on TV and online outside of a 1-month window before and after the release of an expansion. I can't seem to go on any website without seeing ads for HearthStone. Blizzard is allowing their best game franchise to decay in favour of F2P micro-transaction BS. If they start a witch-hunt and lash out at tournament sponsors at the grassroots level it will hurt the scene more than anything. | ||
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ConnVision
Slovenia13 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On February 11 2015 02:59 dUTtrOACh wrote: If they start a witch-hunt and lash out at tournament sponsors at the grassroots level it will hurt the scene more than anything. I don't think it will hurt the scene more then having real shady people fund tournements. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On February 11 2015 05:55 sabas123 wrote: I don't think it will hurt the scene more then having real shady people fund tournements. I bet these same shady characters bet on League, CS, and other games, too. I doubt that their only sphere of influence is SC2, considering there really isn't that much meat on the SC2 cow. They might be suspicious companies, but they portray themselves as legit companies. If Blizz is too intrusive and harsh in protecting their own image, and these sponsors drop out completely rather than cleaning up their act, it WILL hurt the scene. This is a delicate situation indeed. | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On February 11 2015 06:46 dUTtrOACh wrote: I bet these same shady characters bet on League, CS, and other games, too. I doubt that their only sphere of influence is SC2, considering there really isn't that much meat on the SC2 cow. They might be suspicious companies, but they portray themselves as legit companies. If Blizz is too intrusive and harsh in protecting their own image, and these sponsors drop out completely rather than cleaning up their act, it WILL hurt the scene. This is a delicate situation indeed. Eh, I'm not too sure about that. To me it seems like SC2 is one of the few games that actually benefits from 5-10 minutes worth of "insider info". Games are typically only 15-20 minutes long anyway, and with 10 minutes lead time, you can tell a LOT about how the game might play out. Other games generally last a lot longer, and are way more up in the air during that initial 5-10 minutes. | ||
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masterrn
72 Posts
Right now, it's very hard for new players/casters to jump & join in the scene. I'm sure he wanted to take any possible opportunity to make his stream/vision work and was sticking to optimism when he encountered the funding. While it's great that BTTV hosts tournaments and keeps the NA scene alive, I just wish for quals like IEM they wouldn't hog the spotlight. Not everyone wants to hear Tod's nasal accent, not everyone wants to watch a girl who just woke up from bed, not everyone wants to hear INControl talk about applesauce during DH..., not everyone wants to hear a co-caster's broken English being the only commentary available. Just like we have cable/satellite TV channel options to pick what channel/program we want to watch, I think the viewers also deserve to pick whatever flavor/alternatives to tune in for watching quals.. I think it would be great if casters could work together to provide alternatives to cater to all kinds of viewers. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
On February 12 2015 21:32 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Its been awfully quiet about this. Any new info released yet? No you didn't know? Let's be quiet about it for half a year. Then make angry tweets. People ask for proof Say they will publish it soon(TM). Why not wait half a year + 2 weeks so they can make angry tweets with the proof instead. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On February 12 2015 21:32 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Its been awfully quiet about this. Any new info released yet? Yeah, all the ded gaem (did I spell that right?) jokes aside, I am a bit surprised as well. I expected this to roll pages per hour, but now I come back after a day and there are just a few new posts. Either the forums are indeed depopulating, or people are more civilised with the drama. Or is it a matter of everyone agreeing? Surely that cannot be the case on internet... | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On February 12 2015 21:53 Cascade wrote: Yeah, all the ded gaem (did I spell that right?) jokes aside, I am a bit surprised as well. I expected this to roll pages per hour, but now I come back after a day and there are just a few new posts. Either the forums are indeed depopulating, or people are more civilised with the drama. Or is it a matter of everyone agreeing? Surely that cannot be the case on internet... I know right? GSLs paywall stirred up more drama even on r/starcraft than these tweets did. | ||
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
So the best way too stomp this out at the root, would be to increase sc2 money in general, without a corresponding increase in gambling attention (easy fix I know lulz) or decrease money in gambling. Possibly making it harder for illegal gambling would decrease the potential income of cheaters, giving them less power to temp players or tournament organisers. No one is surprised by this conclusion I guess, but just to set the stage for this specific case. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Been way too busy of late with work and the fam. Also I really don't give a damn anymore let alone how things things are run. Same old mistakes and nothing innovative makes me turn the other cheek. You cannot increase the money pool if there is no money to begin with. I want to know where you plan on getting those unique viewers to show sponsors and illegal gambling sites and illegal betting will always be around. It's like the Internet.. way too difficult to regulate. Yet Governments still try to do it anyway. :V You can do all the investigating you want and in some cases you'll find a paper trail. It will always be around though. Close one down another one starts. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On February 12 2015 22:21 Cascade wrote: So to go to the root of the problem, I think this wouldn't happen unless there is more money in the gambling business than in the actual games. The problem appear because a match fixer can offer a player much more money than the expected gain for the player to win the game. Or in this case, can offer more sponsor money than just the advertising warrant (which of what sets the scale of how much you can expect from a legit sponsor), making it a tempting offer for organisers. So the best way too stomp this out at the root, would be to increase sc2 money in general, without a corresponding increase in gambling attention (easy fix I know lulz) or decrease money in gambling. Possibly making it harder for illegal gambling would decrease the potential income of cheaters, giving them less power to temp players or tournament organisers. No one is surprised by this conclusion I guess, but just to set the stage for this specific case. This is like saying NASL gone down because they had no money left. Why is this topic less "hyped" then, mabye, GSL no 480p anymore? Or Voiding Bets of SPL games? Easy answer, beause most people dont see any wrong behavior. Most of the SC II fans have only one corresponding to betting: Liquibets. And these Bets are for fame, no money involved and they are closed so far early that nothing happens. And have you ever heared of someone who tried to fix a match cause of liquibets? So they have no real connection to the issue with the fake sponsors but they see that these fake sponsors bring em great games. All these small online cups had a serious amount of high qualitiy korean players, some even from kespa. They brought great games and that is what people want to see. Because there was no directly involved match fixing in these cups (as far as we know), most no betting related people dont care, because they got only positive effects from this. On the site, why should these people care about some bettors in korea (where betting is illegal). They do not feel involved into this like they felt involved when it comes to direct match fixing. The hosts of these small cups have no real problem with these sponsors in the beginning too.. I bet most of them didnt know who their sponsor in the end was, they were just happy to have them (and get arround 1k for making and casting the cups) and did not ask or search for informations about the sponsors. Without these sponsors, they could not do the cups thus getting no income. But in the long run this buisness model of these sponsors destroy the integrity of Starcraft II. They do something illegal and it is related to us, the scene. That people dont care or shout "why did Olivia tweet this?? who cares, givez evidenze" are hurting themself. KESPA said they will watch the online cups more cloesly. When know what that means, they will just shut down their players participing in it. And the next thing is because of these illegal actions someone in Kespa office thinks that they should not allow players to play at BTTVs Tournaments. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
On February 11 2015 06:46 dUTtrOACh wrote: I bet these same shady characters bet on League, CS, and other games, too. I doubt that their only sphere of influence is SC2, considering there really isn't that much meat on the SC2 cow. They might be suspicious companies, but they portray themselves as legit companies. If Blizz is too intrusive and harsh in protecting their own image, and these sponsors drop out completely rather than cleaning up their act, it WILL hurt the scene. This is a delicate situation indeed. In other games there isnt too much to gain from steramchaeting so the delay of 10 seconds is enough, sometimes even this isnt necessary. So theres no delay to abuse. There are other means of cheating but nothing like that. | ||
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EmoryToss17
United States10 Posts
It's an easy win-win for everyone involved. Tournaments no longer have to worry about Observers having ulterior motives, and gambling sites stop losing money. Easy peasy. Or is there something I'm missing here? Also, can you imagine how pissed one of these guys would've been if they were trying to make money by safe-betting MMA vs. Dark game 1? | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
On February 13 2015 05:22 EmoryToss17 wrote: I don't understand the complexity here. This should be absurdly simple to resolve. The Esports gambling websites have got to be losing tons of money based on these guys throwing off 'the spread' by making large bets and always winning. Someone just needs to get in contact with them and have them implement a rule where betting stops ~15 minutes before the start of each match. The gambling sites themselves have MORE incentive to stop this than the SC2 community does. It's an easy win-win for everyone involved. Tournaments no longer have to worry about Observers having ulterior motives, and gambling sites stop losing money. Easy peasy. Or is there something I'm missing here? Also, can you imagine how pissed one of these guys would've been if they were trying to make money by safe-betting MMA vs. Dark game 1? What you don't understand is that the scammer(s) are also the bookies or at least that is what TotalBiscuit iterated earlier on in this thread. | ||
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EmoryToss17
United States10 Posts
On February 13 2015 08:01 Grizvok wrote: What you don't understand is that the scammer(s) are also the bookies or at least that is what TotalBiscuit iterated earlier on in this thread. I thought about this, but then why would they have shut down the betting on a few recent matches on suspicion of match fixing? Or is that a completely different situation, where the people who were supposedly running THAT scam are seperate from the people who are running this scam? | ||
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